The LJC\Stallion Thread

[Timmah]

I take it back, you won't be a good comedy writer because the practice of writing coherently seems completely beyond you. Are we sure you aren't a bot?

 

[Stallion]

People won’t go and follow a team they already support in the second tier but they will move to a totally new club and sport in the third tier?
And this is because of tyranny of distance?

Finally you have absorbed something! I know your tone and intent is facetious but you have actually typed up some sense!

 

[Stallion]

You are talking about another topic that you know f**k all about.

People aren't attending shute shield instead of NRL. In fact in my experience most people attending shute shield are also NRL fans and the ones that don't like rugby league never have liked the sport

The reason for the (mild) renaissance of the shute shield in recent years is not an alternative to RL as a sport but because they have done a good job of creating a community event. Cheap entry at a local park, day time football with 4 games, BBQ, cheap drinks, boozing up in the clubhouse after the game etc. etc.

Having said the Shute Shield is a still a 2nd rate park rugby organisation and to be fair to them I don't think they ever expect not to be, they just want to maximise that potential which is a reasonable goal for a 3rd tier comp. That all goes back to the point being made to you that there is no reason why tier 2 Rugby league can't have similar success.



lol

The reason why rugby does not publicise crowds for Shute Shield is because they don't have accurate figures and the reason for that is because there is no practical way to provide them.

At southern districts games for example (of which I have been to many), there are 2 old boys selling tickets at the gate and there is no way to reliably count the attendance. They could of course count the til at the end of the day but that doesn't take in to account members (which they do have), other freebies given out to sponsors, mates of the players, associates of board members etc., children (who are free) and other concessions.

So no, the reason for not providing crowd figures is not because of some conspiracy to hide the success of the competition from rugby league officials as you suggest, rather it is because most grounds are incapable of providing figures with any accuracy.

Ok . And I'm fine with that. It still beckons that crowds of up-to 10000 have been attending union games in northern Sydney. You state these people are also rugby league fans!? Therefore such fans are going to the socially relevant union game(*like you informed) instead of the once very popular Bears v Manly local derby!? Go figure. The relevance of rugby league as a code to follow has been reduced with the loss of the Bears from the top flight! You have mentioned many of the reasons why, which relate to social relevance. You are in fact strengthening the point I raise. Rugby league is weaker in northern Sydney via the loss of the Bears as a local rival to the Sea Eagles. That's my standpoint. Some will continue to think rugby league has not been poorly affected by the loss of the Bears . These people are wrong! Other codes are prospering and rugby league is on a downswing in northern Sydney. Oh it must be coincidence!? It couldn’t be the loss of a top flight rival that has been around since 1908 and was the big brother of Manly since 1947? No let's just see these other codes grow in relevance and what's left of top flight rugby league wither in the vine! Great idea fellas! That's just not me as a fan of rugby league.

 

[Pommy]

Finally you have absorbed something! I know your tone and intent is facetious but you have actually typed up some sense!

The distance between NSO and Brookvale is horrific.

 

[Stallion]

I take it back, you won't be a good comedy writer because the practice of writing coherently seems completely beyond you. Are we sure you aren't a bot?

Rock solid Timmah. At least you are consistent !

 

[Stallion]

The distance between NSO and Brookvale is horrific.

Yes. That may be so. But their still exists a rivalry that goes back many years between these two clubs . This loss of local rivalry has lessened the relevance of rugby league in this part of Sydney.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

After twenty years many loyal RL fans may have moved on or passed away. (Not to say if a top flight Bears were reincarnated that fans would come back though!) The lesser code of union has taken up a demand that rugby league is not catering for. It's as simple as that. You surely don't think union is an attractive enough code too instantly cater for fans that are used to action on a footy field?

Mate - what you are saying doesn't make sense. So the Shute shield North Sydney derbies pull 10k becaue North Sydney are no longer in the NRL. North Sydney left the NRL in 1998 but the Shute Shield crowds didn't start to boom until 2017 when two RU enthusiasts bought the broadcasting rights and began to promote the comp using the nostalgia angle.

There is no credible link between the bears' relegation and the rise of the Shute Shield North Sydney derby's crowds and the two incidences in question are 20 years apart. You have given no credible link between the two.

Secondly, you have not addressed why the NSW RL comp (2nd teir RL) can not tap into the same nostalgia as the Shute Shield (3rd teir RU) currently is, using suburban grounds, traditional old clubs (like the bears, Western Suburbs Magpies, Newtown Jets) and family friendly time-slots. Why can this not be achieved by RL?

Thirdly, you do know that Sydney, especially North Sydney is not only historically RL heartland, it is also very much RU heartland (although less popular). You are acting like these Shute Shield clubs have been around for 5 minutes. They are part of the fabric of the sporting culture of Sydney too. I don't like the sport of RU but it is a fact.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I take it back, you won't be a good comedy writer because the practice of writing coherently seems completely beyond you. Are we sure you aren't a bot?

I'm convinced he is a bot. As soon as you make points to debunk his rubbish, he loops back to the beginning of his argument like the algorhythm has been confused and has rebooted.

 

[Stallion]

Mate - what you are saying doesn't make sense. So the Shute shield North Sydney derbies pull 10k becaue North Sydney are no longer in the NRL. North Sydney left the NRL in 1998 but the Shute Shield crowds didn't start to boom until 2017 when two RU enthusiasts bought the broadcasting rights and began to promote the comp using the nostalgia angle.

There is no credible link between the bears' relegation and the rise of the Shute Shield North Sydney derby's crowds and the two incidences in question are 20 years apart. You have given no credible link between the two.

Secondly, you have not addressed why the NSW RL comp (2nd teir RL) can not tap into the same nostalgia as the Shute Shield (3rd teir RU) currently is, using suburban grounds, traditional old clubs (like the bears, Western Suburbs Magpies, Newtown Jets) and family friendly time-slots. Why can this not be achieved by RL?

Thirdly, you do know that Sydney, especially North Sydney is not only historically RL heartland, it is also very much RU heartland (although less popular). You are acting like these Shute Shield clubs have been around for 5 minutes. They are part of the fabric of the sporting culture of Sydney too. I don't like the sport of RU but it is a fact.

I've answered this before! Remembering the disenfranchised Bears fans would not have gone to a boring alternative back in 1998. However as their is less top flight games and notably no strong local derby the sports fan is now attending local union games that appeal to local social relevance. This does make sense! And rugby league is lesser for this.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I've answered this before! Remembering the disenfranchised Bears fans would not have gone to a boring alternative back in 1998. However as their is less top flight games and notably no strong local derby the sports fan is now attending local union games that appeal to local social relevance. This does make sense! And rugby league is lesser for this.

Whilst we 100% agree that union is boring but you have provided no evidence that the shute shield fans are all ex-bears fans. Plus, your argument makes no sense that the bears fans won't watch them in the NSW Cup because only top flight will be sufficient, but they are happy to watch third teir RU.

Why is third grade RU ok but not second grade RL?

Why can't NSWRL tap into the nostalgia that Shute Shield is?

 

[Stallion]

Whilst we 100% agree that union is boring but you have provided no evidence that the shute shield fans are all ex-bears fans. Plus, your argument makes no sense that the bears fans won't watch them in the NSW Cup because only top flight will be sufficient, but they are happy to watch third teir RU.

Why is third grade RU ok but not second grade RL?

Why can't NSWRL tap into the nostalgia that Shute Shield is?

Lets not play with words. I did not state that they were all Bears fans. A percentage would be disenfranchised fans and also fans with no other locally and socially relevant option.

 

[Valheru]

Ok . And I'm fine with that. It still beckons that crowds of up-to 10000 have been attending union games in northern Sydney. You state these people are also rugby league fans!? Therefore such fans are going to the socially relevant union game(*like you informed) instead of the once very popular Bears v Manly local derby!? Go figure. The relevance of rugby league as a code to follow has been reduced with the loss of the Bears from the top flight! You have mentioned many of the reasons why, which relate to social relevance. You are in fact strengthening the point I raise. Rugby league is weaker in northern Sydney via the loss of the Bears as a local rival to the Sea Eagles. That's my standpoint. Some will continue to think rugby league has not been poorly affected by the loss of the Bears . These people are wrong! Other codes are prospering and rugby league is on a downswing in northern Sydney. Oh it must be coincidence!? It couldn’t be the loss of a top flight rival that has been around since 1908 and was the big brother of Manly since 1947? No let's just see these other codes grow in relevance and what's left of top flight rugby league wither in the vine! Great idea fellas! That's just not me as a fan of rugby league.

As has been pointed out to you, this has only occurred in recent years for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the Bears not being in the NRL anymore.

1. Shute Shield got itself a proper broadcaster.
2. As mentioned in my previous post they have done a good job of community engagement.
3. They provide an alternative.... not to rugby league but to rugby union, specifically the garbage the Super Rugby competition has been throwing up the last few years. In my experience people much prefer the free flowing, attacking style in park rugby compared to the stop start penalty-athon at the professional level.

The 'good crowds' the Shute Shield have been getting have nothing to do with what rugby league is or isn't doing. It should also be noted that the description of these crowds as 'good' are in the context of where Rugby Union is at in this country at the moment. 2,000 is a good day at most parks and I would say the average competition wide including the odd 7-10k crowds would be about 1500. It is true that the Manly/Warringah derby has exploded the last few years and that is mostly to do with the above reasons as well as both teams fielding quality sides. The bears existing or not existing has nothing to do with those figures. You could possibly argue that the issues at Manly (Sea Eagles) in recent years have had some effect on this but I would think it would be negligible.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

F@#k me @Stallion how many people can you argue with at once - lol

BTW - you do know that the elite private schools that you talk about are a tiny, tiny percentage of all of the schools in the country right? I mean there are only 9 GPS schools (traditional rugby private schools in QLD) out of the 1723 total schools in the state. It is hardly the biggest issue holding RL back.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lets not play with words. I did not state that they were all Bears fans. A percentage would be disenfranchised fans and also fans with no other locally and socially relevant option.

What percentage are bears fans?

Why is third grade RU ok for these fans but not second grade RL?

Why can't NSWRL tap into the nostalgia that Shute Shield is?

 

[Whatwhere]

F@#k me @Stallion how many people can you argue with at once - lol

BTW - you do know that the elite private schools that you talk about are a tiny, tiny percentage of all of the schools in the country right? I mean there are only 9 GPS schools (traditional rugby private schools in QLD) out of the 1723 total schools in the state. It is hardly the biggest issue holding RL back.

There's three schools competitions in both NSW and QLD. All up roughly 30 odd schools in each state. But yeah, the reality is that even when adding up all the Rugby schools nationwide you're looking at around 100 all up. A very small percentage of the 6700+ schools in the country.

 

[Pommy]

F@#k me @Stallion how many people can you argue with at once - lol

BTW - you do know that the elite private schools that you talk about are a tiny, tiny percentage of all of the schools in the country right? I mean there are only 9 GPS schools (traditional rugby private schools in QLD) out of the 1723 total schools in the state. It is hardly the biggest issue holding RL back.

But the people from elite schools get all the big government and media jobs.
With all of this rugby league is the second biggest code in the nation and the most watched on TV (I think). But it still gets him outraged.

 

[Valheru]

But the people from elite schools get all the big government and media jobs.
With all of this rugby league is the second biggest code in the nation and the most watched on TV (I think). But it still gets him outraged.

I think he believes that if it wasn't for the big bad GPS schools and the Shute Shield, rugby League would be the dominant sport globally.

 

[Stallion]

As has been pointed out to you, this has only occurred in recent years for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the Bears not being in the NRL anymore.

1. Shute Shield got itself a proper broadcaster.
2. As mentioned in my previous post they have done a good job of community engagement.
3. They provide an alternative.... not to rugby league but to rugby union, specifically the garbage the Super Rugby competition has been throwing up the last few years. In my experience people much prefer the free flowing, attacking style in park rugby compared to the stop start penalty-athon at the professional level.

The 'good crowds' the Shute Shield have been getting have nothing to do with what rugby league is or isn't doing. It should also be noted that the description of these crowds as 'good' are in the context of where Rugby Union is at in this country at the moment. 2,000 is a good day at most parks and I would say the average competition wide including the odd 7-10k crowds would be about 1500. It is true that the Manly/Warringah derby has exploded the last few years and that is mostly to do with the above reasons as well as both teams fielding quality sides. The bears existing or not existing has nothing to do with those figures. You could possibly argue that the issues at Manly (Sea Eagles) in recent years have had some effect on this but I would think it would be negligible.

I dissagree. The Bears v Manly local derby is a significant cultural events that has now been replaced by another codes local derby version. You have underestimated the loss of a longstanding local rival for Manly. This matters and this one of the main reasons that rugby league is on a downward slide in northern Sydney. You don't see it that way? I do. It's not justhe coincidence . Things like the elimitation of a club that's been around since 1908 does have an effect eventually. The decline of rugby league in this area can be partly attributed to the loss of a top flight club. I'm sticking with this logic. It does make sense.

 

[Stallion]

I think he believes that if it wasn't for the big bad GPS schools and the Shute Shield, rugby League would be the dominant sport globally.

Lol. I recognise the facitiosness . (but that's par for the course here) However the lack of rugby league presence in such schooling would have hampered rugby league growth immensely. No frIends in high places does count! Rugby league hasn't got the influence or connections enjoyed by union . The elite private schools shunning of the code has a big part to do with this in my opinion.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

But the people from elite schools get all the big government and media jobs.
With all of this rugby league is the second biggest code in the nation and the most watched on TV (I think). But it still gets him outraged.

Maybe he applied for one of these schools and they turned him down and he's made it his personal mission to whinge about them on the internet.