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Refereeing The Magic Round sin bin directive

Messages
1,185
It didn't go to script for Trent and Uncle Nick tonight. Both will be on the phone to Vlandal during the week walking back their own bullshit.

Pretty sure all Robbo said was that the bed ones needed to be dealt with on the field so teams arent disadvantaged during a game which I am sure every coach agrees with.

No where did he say sin bin everyone who touches someones head
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,113
I think you need to be careful that you don't get hoodwinked by V'landys' emotional rhetoric. He often likes to make out that the world is crumbling and that he is iron man of rugby league in order to justify his poorly thought out initiatives. As long as there is fan interest will always be a game of rugby league. The game has been played for over 100 years which suggests that it is going to take something cataclysmic in order to prevent people from playing it.

One issue that I am surprised that no one has discussed yet is the amount of power Peter V'landys has. In my opinion, no one person, regardless of their position, should have the authority to make decision of this magnitude. I think we need to put things in place in order to dilute the Chairman's power, at least when it comes to make decisions which affect the on-field product. If a policy as game changing as sin binning/sending off players for high tackles was going to be introduced then it should have come down to a vote between the games stakeholders.
Your joking, if You think this didn't go through the commission, you have to be Perth red mate, if you think that! In fact one person doesn't that much power, only in your keyboard head does Vlandy have all the power. Their hasn't been a change in the laws, it 's always been illegal/penalty for high head shots, that has NEVER changed HOWEVER the refs, on-report and 10 in the bin is 'new'.
 
Messages
8,480
Exactly right. What baffles me is that there is a precedent for this sort of approach working. It happened before in the 1980s with Jim Comans and his approach to cleaning up the game from acts of blatant thuggery. He basically handed out harsh suspensions and it fixed the problem; obviously there were still fights but the malicious acts were pretty much eradicated.

Getting rid of conscious acts of violence is one thing..

Targetting accidental, ineffective, innocuous contact with the ball-carriers head is another.

I’ve heard this reference to comans a few times now. Paul Kent included.. the only real similarity IMO that’s appropriate is the shuddering immediacy of a new policy - which the league had accepted for so long..

Comans got rid of thugs. Violence.
Vlandys isn’t getting rid of concussions. But he is getting rid of a large fan base the longer he goes on with this..
 

bileduct

Coach
Messages
17,832
I don't get it anymore.

How can a player be sin binned twice for high tackles, then get put on report another two times in the same f**king game without getting sent off?

If the last two incidents were only serious enough for penalties, fine, but the referee obviously believes they were more serious than that and put them on report.

I am so confused with this game.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
471
Your joking, if You think this didn't go through the commission, you have to be Perth red mate, if you think that! In fact one person doesn't that much power, only in your keyboard head does Vlandy have all the power. Their hasn't been a change in the laws, it 's always been illegal/penalty for high head shots, that has NEVER changed HOWEVER the refs, on-report and 10 in the bin is 'new'.
Who did V'landys consult then? Why has this nor the process that the Commission went through to come up with this new edict been explained? These are serious questions you need to be asking yourself.

No one is saying that they want hitting people around the head to be made legal. The argument that most logical people are putting forward is that the punishment of sending players off and to the sin bin is detracting from the spectacle.
 
Messages
1,185
I don't get it anymore.

How can a player be sin binned twice for high tackles, then get put on report another two times in the same f**king game without getting sent off?

If the last two incidents were only serious enough for penalties, fine, but the referee obviously believes they were more serious than that and put them on report.

I am so confused with this game.

Because in reality perhaps only the first one was a sin bin...arguable at best
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
471
Getting rid of conscious acts of violence is one thing..

Targetting accidental, ineffective, innocuous contact with the ball-carriers head is another.

I’ve heard this reference to comans a few times now. Paul Kent included.. the only real similarity IMO that’s appropriate is the shuddering immediacy of a new policy - which the league had accepted for so long..

Comans got rid of thugs. Violence.
Vlandys isn’t getting rid of concussions. But he is getting rid of a large fan base the longer he goes on with this..
There main similarity between Comans and V'landys is conscious effort by both to increase due diligence on the players part. In Comans' case, it was to get players to be more accountable for thuggish behaviour and to think twice before deliberately hurting someone; with V'landys it is to eradicate carelessness and recklessness. With that being said, I was not really attempting to compare the two predicaments but merely highlight that suspensions can be used effectively to eradicate behaviour that compromises player welfare.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but V'landys has never come out and said that he wants to eradicate concussions completely? If he has said that then I think he has obviously made a massive overstatement because there will always be incidental concussions.
 
Messages
8,480
There main similarity between Comans and V'landys is conscious effort by both to increase due diligence on the players part. In Comans' case, it was to get players to be more accountable for thuggish behaviour and to think twice before deliberately hurting someone; with V'landys it is to eradicate carelessness and recklessness. With that being said, I was not really attempting to compare the two predicaments but merely highlight that suspensions can be used effectively to eradicate behaviour that compromises player welfare.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but V'landys has never come out and said that he wants to eradicate concussions completely? If he has said that then I think he has obviously made a massive overstatement because there will always be incidental concussions.

mate I agree with your thoughts here... and good points. My post above wasn’t meant to be in opposition to you, more about how some folk have flippantly Mentioned Comans as a “change that had to happen” which changed the game... and likened it to what’s happening now... Primary - Foxsports.

Vlandys indeed hasn’t said he will eradicate concussions. He has said though that player welfare is his primary concern, and he wants players when they retire to be in good health when they leave the game. That’s absolutely honorable for mine. But...

Hes enacted this radical change almost overnight. Without consulting anyone and communicate horribly to the clubs.

Hes stated that it’s not a new rule... which I disagree with... but even if true of means he’s allowed players to be hit in the head for the last 18 months on his watch.

He’s changed multiple rules (aside from the sin bin protocols) overnight.. whether you agree with them, some, none... he’s just done it.

He’s stated “the game is the most exciting its ever been”..... really????

All the while he’s bagged “boring AFL” ad nauseum, stated he “doesn’t want Victorians” coming to NSW (under the guise of COVID restrictions), said regarding expansion into WA is effectively “wasting money on rusted-on AFL states”.

To me - he’s our Donald Trump. Come in proud to “save the day”, done some good things but all gung-ho, full of ego and self-righteousness that (now) overshadow anything good he’s done. And now the people are turning on him.

I’m all for the greater repercussions of severe head high tackles, using send offs where these occur. I have no problem with any of the send offs in magic round - just my view. But...

The sin bin / heavier suspensions for head contact rule is just absurd. Why sin bin “minor”, innocuous, accidental, circumstantial contact which had no effect on the ball carrier. Eg a tacklers arm hitting the ball/arm then deflecting onto the head like McGuire, or A player falling into a defender like Tedesco into Burr..

It only will..

1 - Encourage more diving - seen already (eg Walker / Townsend.
2 - encourage rorting of Hia to get “an 18th man”
3 - cost teams any chance of the win (eg Cowboys vs Roosters)
4 - completely exhaust teams already in other rules designed to “speed up the game”. Some have been down to 11... and if they have little / no bench ...

And primarily ...

5 - tacklers now putting themselves in even more danger by going lower or ducking into a tackle and getting knocked out themselves - eg Jayden Hunt for Dragons on debut vs Sharks.. He lowered his body n ducked to make the hit - trying to avoid anything high and got hit in the head, knocked out cold.

This is my biggest beef, and fear about this stuff. They are sin binning people for minimal contact “one size fits all” style... and so tacklers will be at more risk trying to avoid it than they already are..like Jayden Hunt...

Most concussions happen to the tackler... and in terms of “bad ones” or knockouts, they are by far the most common. Now this rule is only going to make this worse.

That’s not player welfare. That’s only shifting the problem elsewhere. And punishing a team in the process. and ruining the contest.

Annesley has said many daft things lately for mine eg “players have to learn”... and only today with reference to Jake Friend - that players retiring like him have forced the NRL had to come down hard...

Thing is.. when Jake friend was knocked out / concussed in games - he was always the tackler. Boyd Cordner - either the tackler or head hitting the turf... Neither from high tackles..

All the ex players who we sadly see now with brain issues... eg Price, Mortimer, Horsnell, - their “highlight reel” is all when they were tacklers... and playing on.

Geez I’ve gone on a bit here haven’t I??

But while i get that we need to protect players, and also the reputation of the game so mums will let little Johnny play junior league...

Donald Vlandys has just gone rogue in making decisions like a dictator - which serve no purpose in improving player welfare, and do serve to make the game less of a contest, diminish its quality and anger the fans...

I hope he gets impeached.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
471
mate I agree with your thoughts here... and good points. My post above wasn’t meant to be in opposition to you, more about how some folk have flippantly Mentioned Comans as a “change that had to happen” which changed the game... and likened it to what’s happening now... Primary - Foxsports.

Vlandys indeed hasn’t said he will eradicate concussions. He has said though that player welfare is his primary concern, and he wants players when they retire to be in good health when they leave the game. That’s absolutely honorable for mine. But...

Hes enacted this radical change almost overnight. Without consulting anyone and communicate horribly to the clubs.

Hes stated that it’s not a new rule... which I disagree with... but even if true of means he’s allowed players to be hit in the head for the last 18 months on his watch.

He’s changed multiple rules (aside from the sin bin protocols) overnight.. whether you agree with them, some, none... he’s just done it.

He’s stated “the game is the most exciting its ever been”..... really????

All the while he’s bagged “boring AFL” ad nauseum, stated he “doesn’t want Victorians” coming to NSW (under the guise of COVID restrictions), said regarding expansion into WA is effectively “wasting money on rusted-on AFL states”.

To me - he’s our Donald Trump. Come in proud to “save the day”, done some good things but all gung-ho, full of ego and self-righteousness that (now) overshadow anything good he’s done. And now the people are turning on him.

I’m all for the greater repercussions of severe head high tackles, using send offs where these occur. I have no problem with any of the send offs in magic round - just my view. But...

The sin bin / heavier suspensions for head contact rule is just absurd. Why sin bin “minor”, innocuous, accidental, circumstantial contact which had no effect on the ball carrier. Eg a tacklers arm hitting the ball/arm then deflecting onto the head like McGuire, or A player falling into a defender like Tedesco into Burr..

It only will..

1 - Encourage more diving - seen already (eg Walker / Townsend.
2 - encourage rorting of Hia to get “an 18th man”
3 - cost teams any chance of the win (eg Cowboys vs Roosters)
4 - completely exhaust teams already in other rules designed to “speed up the game”. Some have been down to 11... and if they have little / no bench ...

And primarily ...

5 - tacklers now putting themselves in even more danger by going lower or ducking into a tackle and getting knocked out themselves - eg Jayden Hunt for Dragons on debut vs Sharks.. He lowered his body n ducked to make the hit - trying to avoid anything high and got hit in the head, knocked out cold.

This is my biggest beef, and fear about this stuff. They are sin binning people for minimal contact “one size fits all” style... and so tacklers will be at more risk trying to avoid it than they already are..like Jayden Hunt...

Most concussions happen to the tackler... and in terms of “bad ones” or knockouts, they are by far the most common. Now this rule is only going to make this worse.

That’s not player welfare. That’s only shifting the problem elsewhere. And punishing a team in the process. and ruining the contest.

Annesley has said many daft things lately for mine eg “players have to learn”... and only today with reference to Jake Friend - that players retiring like him have forced the NRL had to come down hard...

Thing is.. when Jake friend was knocked out / concussed in games - he was always the tackler. Boyd Cordner - either the tackler or head hitting the turf... Neither from high tackles..

All the ex players who we sadly see now with brain issues... eg Price, Mortimer, Horsnell, - their “highlight reel” is all when they were tacklers... and playing on.

Geez I’ve gone on a bit here haven’t I??

But while i get that we need to protect players, and also the reputation of the game so mums will let little Johnny play junior league...

Donald Vlandys has just gone rogue in making decisions like a dictator - which serve no purpose in improving player welfare, and do serve to make the game less of a contest, diminish its quality and anger the fans...

I hope he gets impeached.
That was a really good post and I share your dislike for V'landys. I do agree that there are similarities between Trump and V'landys, at least in their rhetoric anyway. I've never really warmed to the idea of bringing in someone from an industry as corrupt as racing. There is also this business going on with V'landys and animal cruelty towards horses in the racing industry. I think the question needs to be raised is the NRL Chairman subject to the Integrity Unity? He should be as nobody is above the game.

I got slammed by someone else a few posts ago for saying V'landys acted without consulting anyone but it has never been divulged how this edict came to be. For all we know, Donald V'landys may have woken up one morning feeling a little inadequate about his manhood and as a result, decided that we are going to start policing high tackles more stringently.

I also agree with you about tacklers being concussed. This is one of the unfortunate side-effects of having someone like V'landys who does not understand the game. How can he? He has been associated with horse racing and has had very little exposure to rugby league.

Many people fail to realise that part of the reason why "wrestling" came into the game was as a way of avoiding players from getting concussed from knees to the head. The player being tackled is also more at risk of being concussed from a legs tackle by the second man coming in.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
19,356
The NRL is looking sillier and sillier by the day. Sin binning players for the most innocuous contact whilst ball runners are leading with elbows and forearms contacting defenders Heads regularly.

Then you have an incident like the one with sitilli who got knocked in to next week by a retreating defender and left the field for HIA. Don't get me wrong, completely accidental but far heavier contact with the head than anything else in the game.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
19,356
I don't get it anymore.

How can a player be sin binned twice for high tackles, then get put on report another two times in the same f**king game without getting sent off?

If the last two incidents were only serious enough for penalties, fine, but the referee obviously believes they were more serious than that and put them on report.

I am so confused with this game.

There is no such thing as a high tackle that isn't serious enough for a report nowadays apparently.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,019
Obviously not in the mind of the referee who point him in the bin twice.

The second sin binning should have been the send off, since he didn't get the message the first time around.

the ref didn’t put him in the bin. The bunker did.

that’s why you see these inconsistencies. The decision gets taken out of the refs hands and it’s highly likely they don’t agree with it, leading to it affecting later decisions.

we see it all the time when the video ref makes a howler on awarding or disallowing a try and the ref then attempts a bit of a square up to make it right
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
28,425
Roosters fans (Not every single one of them. Visit game day threads for both versions)
Anzac Day - no issue with the new crackdown on high contact.
May 22nd - yeah we have issues with the new crackdown on high contact.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
19,356
Roosters fans (Not every single one of them. Visit game day threads for both versions)
Anzac Day - no issue with the new crackdown on high contact.
May 22nd - yeah we have issues with the new crackdown on high contact.

ANZAC day was before the crackdown.

We have had an issue with this directive since it started, just like everyone else.
 

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