The Pride thread 🌈

[the phantom menace]

Do they screen pulp fiction on a billboard outside wynyard railway station?

I don't know, I'd be up for it if they did. I know they've had it at outdoor cinema, drive ins etc.

But what did you think of the scene, or is it about not exposing kids to any images of S&M costumes until <insert random threshhold age here>? And how to we determine the age at which some art is appropriate for public view or not?

And when exactly do we teach kids about sex and everything? Current recommended age is getting younger, because (and I agree with this) it's important to teach them about consent (mainly heterosexual) before they will ever get close to situations where it might apply (which are loaded against young women because young men are merkins, despite not having had art like this on display.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Or maybe you’re just plain wrong. Maybe you’ve just got your contrarian hat on and are invested in the challenge ?

Merkins need to understand that you can’t be half pregnant. You can’t say “I’m not a racist, but is it too much to ask that they all speak english and dress like us ?” Love you too Pauline.

Likewise anyone who tosses in “some of my best friends are gay, but…” really needs to examine what their but topic is all about and in particular, are you displaying tolerance?

As for your contrarian angle “allies are looking for attention” that’s pure spin, designed so that the intolerant don’t have to sit alone in the sticky smelly discomfort of their bigotry.

Some things shouldn't be tolerated. I voted f**k Yes! to gay marriage (which is about equality). Mardi gras isn't about equality any more than forcing merkins to wear rainbows is about equality. It is more privileging of the few over the many.

 

[strider]

I don't know, I'd be up for it if they did. I know they've had it at outdoor cinema, drive ins etc.

But what did you think of the scene, or is it about not exposing kids to any images of S&M costumes until <insert random threshhold age here>? And how to we determine the age at which some art is appropriate for public view or not?

And when exactly do we teach kids about sex and everything? Current recommended age is getting younger, because (and I agree with this) it's important to teach them about consent (mainly heterosexual) before they will ever get close to situations where it might apply (which are loaded against young women because young men are merkins, despite not having had art like this on display.

Ive never actually watched all of pulp fiction - so i can't comment ..... I assume most of it's adult rating comes from violence though rather than some s&m thing ...... I'm pretty sure they still see fit to put age restrictions and recommendations on movies - so some must think there are things we shouldn't show kids

anyway .... i think i explained myself well enough to begin with - but you ignored most of what i've said and are just trying to get me in some "gotcha, you homophobe" moment

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Some things shouldn't be tolerated. I voted f**k Yes! to gay marriage (which is about equality). Mardi gras isn't about equality any more than forcing merkins to wear rainbows is about equality. It is more privileging of the few over the many.

I don’t quite understand that last privilege point, I’m pleased to be enlightened if you are so minded.

 

[Gary Gutful]

The "shoving in my face" thing - as others have said, we have choices and nothing is shoved in our faces. It's called a remote control if you need to change the channel, it's called not forking out to go to the cinema if you're worried about sex scenes (though it seems more like your worry is just gay characters in general)?

I'm not worrying about any of it to be honest and I'm definitely not worrying about the proliferation of gay characters in movies. One of my favourite films of all time is Brokeback Mountain.

I quite like Mardi Gras and think for the most part it has done much more good than harm. I just think we live in an oversexualised world now where it is much harder for people to ignore sex of any persuasion, which is ironic because I reckon the reality is that people are probably having less sex than they ever did. In that context, Mardi Gras fits in perfectly - everyone gets their bits out for the night and then goes home and drinks tea.

Gender is not the same as genetic. I don't think anyone is arguing gender is the same as genetic, or that there are no such things as genetic differences between people? Just that maybe putting things in two strict camps because of invisible science matters less than someone's individual experience/identification.

When people are arguing that there is more than one gender they are ignoring basic human biology. I don't care what someone does with their lives or who they think they are. More power to them. But what we are seeing is people now enforcing their views on others by demanding that they be referred to by their preferred pronouns (and getting offended if someone doesn't assume correctly). I think thats a step too far - fortunately its only an extreme minority that do this.

After initial shock at initial exposure to these things in my late teens, my fall back has always been each to their own (with a shrug) - I can respect differences, without moral panic.

So can I merkin. Is it possible to share alternative views having a moral panic? Of course it is. Throwing those sorts of comments out there only serves two purposes - to shut down dialogue and to demonise anyone that wants to explore these issues as 'uncaring'. I dont think thats particularly helpful.

I grew out of that phase of my life by the end of my 20s and my relationships with people of all persuasions is all the better for it.

I'm just glad that with increased exposure and tolerance now - unlike the 10 or so people in my school grade who had to hide who they knew they were until it was safe(r) in their 20s - kids in the same situation won't have to go through the impacts of that as badly (perhaps).

I'm glad you said perhaps.

I think we are generally more tolerant, but with social media etc I think bullying in schools is an exponentially bigger problem than it was when our generation went to school. Maybe they are getting bullied for the colour of their shoes rather than their sexuality, but I doubt it and expect it is still a problem.

Which brings me back to the importance of not shutting down dialogue and demonising people as uncaring. Thats not how you make progress.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

How does a mural "make" someome be anything.

"You can't be what you can't see."

 

[the phantom menace]

anyway .... i think i explained myself well enough to begin with - but you ignored most of what i've said and are just trying to get me in some "gotcha, you homophobe" moment

If I was trying to call you a homophobe, I would have just done that - so no gotcha moment.

Everyone will think they've explained their own view well enough, but its a different level of explanation required for another person not holding that view to try and understand it.

My understanding is that you think nothing in public should reveal any sexual element until... age 18? Or is it age 16? Or some other age...? That's the bit I'm not sure on - where do you draw this line, and how can that line be drawn?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

And can you see at all how taking that position / allowing those attitudes and reactiosn contradicts your second sentence statement?

Tolerating you doesn't mean you need to be celebrated ffs

 

[the phantom menace]

Some things shouldn't be tolerated. I voted f**k Yes! to gay marriage (which is about equality).

Good on you!

Mardi gras isn't about equality any more than forcing merkins to wear rainbows is about equality. It is more privileging of the few over the many.

Controversial...

 

[Gary Gutful]

I try and understand both sides - as much as I am able for sides I disagree with. But sides of an argument aren't always equivalent in what is there to understand - and while it might not do any favours, surely calling out shortcomings in a side of an argument is as valid as stating that side of an argument in the first place (as it is when it comes in the other direction).

Feel free to call me a bigot re my views on organised religion - I won't deny it, or get flustered. Each to their own with a shrug, but that shouldn't preclude someone from indicating a view/opinion/argument simply doesn't add up or make sense. I am also bigoted to things that (after some effort) seem simple-minded - although I did quite like the band back in the day...

I'm not calling you a religious bigot. Gronk and others started with the labelling.

I'm just highlighting that the very thing you are arguing against and suggesting you are not, is the very thing you often do yourself.

 

[strider]

If I was trying to call you a homophobe, I would have just done that - so no gotcha moment.

Everyone will think they've explained their own view well enough, but its a different level of explanation required for another person not holding that view to try and understand it.

My understanding is that you think nothing in public should reveal any sexual element until... age 18? Or is it age 16? Or some other age...? That's the bit I'm not sure on - where do you draw this line, and how can that line be drawn?

well we are talking about a teddy bear head .... i think most 18 and 16 year olds have out grown teddys - so i think its pretty clear we are talking much younger

 

[Gary Gutful]

I voted f**k Yes! to gay marriage (which is about equality).

Same. It was f**ken bullshit that gay people couldn't get married.

 

[King hit]

Geez that Lidia Thorpe is a f**king nutcase.

If I meet her I would just ask how much bikie cum she has been sucking

 

[Twizzle]

Never said it was. Old mate said kids should be exposed to all sorts of things, including gay people, boys that wear dresses and girls that want to be boys.

my point is kids need to be kids, and shouldn’t be exposed to anything, until they really understand the situation.

you compared being exposed to homosxuality to being exposed to illicit drugs

so yes you did compare it to a felony

 

[the phantom menace]

I'm not worrying about any of it to be honest and I'm definitely not worrying about the proliferation of gay characters in movies. One of my favourite films of all time is Brokeback Mountain.

Awesome.

I quite like Mardi Gras and think for the most part it has done much more good than harm. I just think we live in an oversexualised world now where it is much harder for people to ignore sex of any persuasion, which is ironic because I reckon the reality is that people are probably having less sex than they ever did. In that context, Mardi Gras fits in perfectly - everyone gets their bits out for the night and then goes home and drinks tea.

Ok, another vote for oversexualisation of the world (like Strider).
Agree there is probably less sex going on (in younger generations, comparatively over time - as well as the obvious less sex for us older merkins.

When people are arguing that there is more than one gender they are ignoring basic human biology. I don't care what someone does with their lives or who they think they are. More power to them. But what we are seeing is people now enforcing their views on others by demanding that they be referred to by their preferred pronouns (and getting offended if someone doesn't assume correctly). I think thats a step too far - fortunately its only an extreme minority that do this.

Again, I understand gender (as a concept) is not equal to genetics or biology. The fact that they are different (for some) is probably why the concept had to be invented as a descriptor. Personally I don't mind if someone calls me he, she or they - but I get that for some people these labels (or use of the "wrong" one for them) is/can be triggering. If someone's indicated what their pronouns are I'll respect that, and generally I've found it easy to use alternatives to he and she (you) and his and her (their) when talking to/about someone - so I'm unlikely to offend anyone that way. Personally I don't see any of that as people enforcing their views, or being a step too far?

So can I merkin. Is it possible to share alternative views having a moral panic? Of course it is. Throwing those sorts of comments out there only serves two purposes - to shut down dialogue and to demonise anyone that wants to explore these issues as 'uncaring'. I dont think thats particularly helpful.

I grew out of that phase of my life by the end of my 20s and my relationships with people of all persuasions is all the better for it.

Great to hear.

But there seems a bit of moral panic to posts and responses in this thread over the last 24 hours, wouldn't you say? If people feel shut down when their (often without reasonable explanation of their intolerant / potentially hurtful and damaging) view, then maybe that's on them (and probably karma)? I'm not trying to convert anyone who is anti-Mardi Gras, anti-bear/gimp art, anti-exposure of diverse sexual persuasions - just equally sharing an equal view... I do get your point, but (smugly) it doesn't stop me from viewing some poorly elucidated differing views as lesser.

I'm glad you said perhaps.

I think we are generally more tolerant, but with social media etc I think bullying in schools is an exponentially bigger problem than it was when our generation went to school. Maybe they are getting bullied for the colour of their shoes rather than their sexuality, but I doubt it and expect it is still a problem.

Which brings me back to the importance of not shutting down dialogue and demonising people as uncaring. Thats not how you make progress.

Agree focus on differences of any sort is magnified for our younger generations. But I would contend that's why making an example of bigoted views particularly on sex discrimination, race discrimination, and the gender/sexual persuaion issues - all things which are absolutely core to an individual's inner identity - is so important. If only to initially role model that stuff isn't (or won't in the future be consider) ok. Progress beyond that (unfortunately still) comes later, and sadly ever so gradually.

 

[the phantom menace]

I'm not calling you a religious bigot. Gronk and others started with the labelling.

I'm just highlighting that the very thing you are arguing against and suggesting you are not, is the very thing you often do yourself.

And I'm agreeing with you in terms of organised religion - whether or not labelled my views on organised religion in that way.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You’ll probably find that even on a relative scale, Heterosexuals are responsible for more murders, assaults, rapes, robbery’s, frauds, maimings, property damage and every other crime and social disadvantage possible that homosexuals.

What the f**k? Mental illness correlates strongly with crime, and LGBTQ+ are known to have worse mental health. Unless you have crime figures that contradict this, it would be smarter to assume their crime rates are higher.

 

[the phantom menace]

well we are talking about a teddy bear head .... i think most 18 and 16 year olds have out grown teddys - so i think its pretty clear we are talking much younger

Yes, but how do you police that line about what public art might be appropriate where, and what might not? When (as I understand it) owners of a building don't necessarily have to get permission to paint their building as they deem fit - unless it breaks a law (and how would that law be interpretted and policed)?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So you don't like art of a guy in the S&M gear, and that's it?

What about the scene in Pulp Fiction of the gimp - fan or not a fan? Did it spoil the movie for you, or you didn't like that type of film anyway?

The gimp was clearly a bad guy.

 

[the phantom menace]

"You can't be what you can't see."

You've quoted someone here - is that so you can later pretend this isn't your own view?

Pretty dumb statement either way - do you have an interest in/support kids not "becoming" something that you seem to argue that they shouldn't see? Why can't they be left to become themselves... rather than hiding some of the options (and risking that they don't see anything that might be like their experience of the world)?

Tolerating you doesn't mean you need to be celebrated ffs

You celebrate me enough, by replying to every single post I make on here - even if your replies over time are a jumbled mess of contradictory viewpoints