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The Pride thread šŸŒˆ

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17,112
What the f**k? Mental illness correlates strongly with crime, and LGBTQ+ are known to have worse mental health. Unless you have crime figures that contradict this, it would be smarter to assume their crime rates are higher.

Wtf?

Hereā€™s just one reference, more heterosexuals engaged in kiddy fiddling than gays:


I will get you my figures if you want, many times over, but if Iā€™m going to go to that trouble, when I prove my case, I want a full written retraction from you that you have erred.

Not an apology, just an acknowledgment will suffice.

Deal?
 
Messages
11,780
What the f**k? Mental illness correlates strongly with crime, and LGBTQ+ are known to have worse mental health. Unless you have crime figures that contradict this, it would be smarter to assume their crime rates are higher.
Possibly your dumbest post on here to date - and that's saying something.

Situation A correlates with situation B, and situation C correlates with situation A - so prove you wrong that situation C doesn't correlate with situation B? Are you seriously trying to pass that slop as a valid contribution? And aren't you the same dude that I'm pretty sure has posted correlation isn't causation... so you're just a troll account, yeah?
 

Poupou Escobar

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Messages
91,282
I donā€™t quite understand that last privilege point, Iā€™m pleased to be enlightened if you are so minded.
Well as a society we donā€™t celebrate everyone (except on their birthdays) and rightly so. Everybody Day would cheapen the act of celebration. So when we do celebrate we are elevating some people over others. The rationale for this is that those people deserve it. When people get stuff they donā€™t deserve it is called privilege.
 
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17,112
Well as a society we donā€™t celebrate everyone (except on their birthdays) and rightly so. Everybody Day would cheapen the act of celebration. So when we do celebrate we are elevating some people over others. The rationale for this is that those people deserve it. When people get stuff they donā€™t deserve it is called privilege.

This is so bad in logic and bad in fact, Iā€™m not even going to try.

But Iā€™m happy to march in Everybody Day with my new trans species boyfriend who happens to be funnel web spider.

Waving our Barry the Bondage Teddy high above our heads.
 
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Gary Gutful

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Messages
52,963
Again, I understand gender (as a concept) is not equal to genetics or biology. The fact that they are different (for some) is probably why the concept had to be invented as a descriptor. Personally I don't mind if someone calls me he, she or they - but I get that for some people these labels (or use of the "wrong" one for them) is/can be triggering. If someone's indicated what their pronouns are I'll respect that, and generally I've found it easy to use alternatives to he and she (you) and his and her (their) when talking to/about someone - so I'm unlikely to offend anyone that way. Personally I don't see any of that as people enforcing their views, or being a step too far?
Its an invented concept that isnt grounded in biology.

I'm also happy to play along but find the whole thing ridiculous and weird that someone can make up their gender and then get funny with someone who doesn't want to play along.

As someone who prides themselves on smugly dismissing poorly elucidated ideas I'm surprised you don't accept that another person might decide the whole thing is bullshit.

But there seems a bit of moral panic to posts and responses in this thread over the last 24 hours, wouldn't you say?
I don't think so. I just see some people with some different views and you trying to shit on them.

But I would contend that's why making an example of bigoted views particularly on sex discrimination, race discrimination, and the gender/sexual persuaion issues - all things which are absolutely core to an individual's inner identity - is so important.
Stamping out bigoted views is important. I think we have to be very careful when we use that label though.

I feel like the bigot police have really shit radars and apply it far too liberally in a way which often shuts down the conversation.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
17,043
you compared being exposed to homosxuality to being exposed to illicit drugs

so yes you did compare it to a felony


Ok mate. Go expose your grand kids to cross dressers, and boys that want to be girls.


and while youā€™re at it, go show them the semi naked man in bondage with a teddy bear head.

my entire point is kids are innocent.
 
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11,780
Its an invented concept that isnt grounded in biology.

I'm also happy to play along but find the whole thing ridiculous and weird that someone can make up their gender and then get funny with someone who doesn't want to play along.

As someone who prides themselves on smugly dismissing poorly elucidated ideas I'm surprised you don't accept that another person might decide the whole thing is bullshit.
Of course it isn't grounded in biology - which I think is the point for people who experience things differently. Physical science and psychological experience aren't related... but to me that doesn't mean gender is bullshit.

Personally I think gender is irrelevant, which is why it's easy for me to simply take the he/she out of things and think of people as individuals (them or they) and be done with it. I can accept that another person might not want to play along - but that doesn't mean I can't/won't have an opinion on it (just like I can accept Waqa Blake or Jake Arthur might get selected, but I can discuss the relative merits or craziness of that).

I don't think so. I just see some people with some different views and you trying to shit on them.
When the different opinion/moral panic deserves shitting on, then šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø. Just like many other people do on here to each other over other views (including on Waqa and Jake).
Stamping out bigoted views is important. I think we have to be very careful when we use that label though.

I feel like the bigot police have really shit radars and apply it far too liberally in a way which often shuts down the conversation.
Fair enough. I do think there is some evidence of some homonophobia among some of the opinions posted here in the last twenty four hours though. And to me someone calling it when they see it doesn't need to shut down the conversation - unless the holders of the disrepectful/ill-considered/accidentally bigoted views have really thin skin about it (and the potential damage their views might cause).
 

Gary Gutful

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52,963
When the different opinion/moral panic deserves shitting on, then
Moral panic? You are exaggerating. People are just expressing their views.
Fair enough. I do think there is some evidence of some homonophobia among some of the opinions posted here in the last twenty four hours though. And to me someone calling it when they see it doesn't need to shut down the conversation - unless the holders of the disrepectful/ill-considered/accidentally bigoted views have really thin skin about it (and the potential damage their views might cause).
Itā€™s big label to use and shouldnā€™t be applied recklessly.

Sure, there plenty of cut and dried cases of it but also lots of examples where overly sensitive people use it as a ā€˜go toā€™ insult because they donā€™t want their own narrow views on the topic challenged.
 
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11,780
Moral panic? You are exaggerating. People are just expressing their views.
Views that when challeged are often not elucidated beyond some moral level, everyone seems to get squirmish... or panics?
Itā€™s big label to use and shouldnā€™t be applied recklessly.

Sure, there plenty of cut and dried cases of it but also lots of examples where overly sensitive people use it as a ā€˜go toā€™ insult because they donā€™t want their own narrow views on the topic challenged.
Maybe. I haven't seen that though. Should I choose to label someone a bigot (racist, homophobe etc) I welcome any conversation that might follows in their attempt to justify their hurtful views.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Messages
91,282
You've quoted someone here - is that so you can later pretend this isn't your own view?
It's the generic justification for ham-fisted displays of diversity in media.
Pretty dumb statement either way - do you have an interest in/support kids not "becoming" something that you seem to argue that they shouldn't see? Why can't they be left to become themselves... rather than hiding some of the options (and risking that they don't see anything that might be like their experience of the world)?
I just don't think gay kids should be sexualised any more than straight kids. Which should be never. A couple of dudes holding hands in a park is fine. Bondage art with teddy bear iconography is creepy groomer shit.
You celebrate me enough, by replying to every single post I make on here - even if your replies over time are a jumbled mess of contradictory viewpoints :D
I reply to everyone who spouts their unconsidered opinions as fact. If you weren't such a narcissist you'd realise that.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
52,963
Views that when challeged are often not elucidated beyond some moral level, everyone seems to get squirmish... or panics?
Panic is Parra in the 98 PF against the Dogs. I am not seeing any panic on here.

Maybe. I haven't seen that though. Should I choose to label someone a bigot (racist, homophobe etc) I welcome any conversation that might follows in their attempt to justify their hurtful views

More power to you. I would welcome any conversation with someone if I used that term to describe them as well.

Two points though:

1. Just because someone gets offended it doesnā€™t mean that what was said was offensive. Many people are easily triggered.

2. Itā€™s also entirely true that there are many instances where people get offended on behalf of someone else but unnecessarily so because the intended recipient is not offended.

By all means, we should challenge any overt homophobic views. But equally, itā€™s not a simple issue and not every utterance on the topic that misaligns with someone elseā€™s views is an example of homophobia.

I would rather challenge the substance of the statement first, but sadly calling someone a ā€˜homophobeā€™ is an easy go to for many people whoā€™d be better off thinking before applying that label.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,282
Wtf?

Hereā€™s just one reference, more heterosexuals engaged in kiddy fiddling than gays:

Unsurprising given they are the majority. And if you're talking about relative numbers then it also makes sense, since heterosexual perverts have greater access to children than LGBTQ+ perverts. But that is one very small category of crime you are now talking about, with your source being very biased.
I will get you my figures if you want, many times over, but if Iā€™m going to go to that trouble, when I prove my case, I want a full written retraction from you that you have erred.

Not an apology, just an acknowledgment will suffice.

Deal?
Given the primary data is virtually nonexistent (when do they record the sexual orientation of merkins convicted of crime?) I would say whatever supporting data you present is badly corrupted by the type of junk science used to push political agendas. Pretty much anything in the .org domain is bullshit.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,282
Possibly your dumbest post on here to date - and that's saying something.

Situation A correlates with situation B, and situation C correlates with situation A - so prove you wrong that situation C doesn't correlate with situation B? Are you seriously trying to pass that slop as a valid contribution? And aren't you the same dude that I'm pretty sure has posted correlation isn't causation... so you're just a troll account, yeah?
Now you're just showing your lack of understanding. I never said the word causation here, I said correlation. And if you think that means correlation is meaningless then it explains why you think I'm the dumbest merkin on here. You sad peanut.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,282
Even the Christians don't know which way to turn on pride.
Well mate, 'the Christians' is in the same category of useless (other than for pushing agendas) generalisation as 'the Jews'.
Though I know which side of that argument is the most respectful and tolerant one :rainbow:.
Why tolerate things you think are harmful? Why respect things you think don't deserve respect? Merkins might be wrong about whether something is actually harmful but that isn't the point. Risk averse people want proof that there is no risk, they aren't going to wait and see. And you yourself have shown you aren't respectful of them, so why should they be any different?
 

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