The Swamp

[Maroubra Eel]

Hayne is a superstar and will prove it again this year when he wins the Dally M medal for the second time.

Let's hope so. Would love to see him stay on the paddock this year .

 

[Gary Gutful]

Agreed. We can only hope he becomes the superstar he should be.

 

[lingard]

I don't know about precisely. Of course having him injured contributed to those spoons, but our winning record was already poor even when Hayne was playing. We might have nabbed a couple of extra wins each season, but that still would have barely taken us out of spoon territory when you consider the past two years we've finished 2 wins behind the 15th placed team.

Anyway that wasn't really my point, I just don't see the logic in saying Inglis is a better player than Hayne because Inglis hasn't carried a woeful football team.

Nobody has said that. That isn't the reason. It is just one part of the reason. It is just one thing that Hayne has done which really stood out, which Inglis has not had the luxury(?) of doing. Aren't we allowed to count that?
Just out of curiosity, how do you think Hayne might go if he played fullback at Souths or Melbourne or Easts or Manly? Think he might get a few more opportunities to showcase himself? Maybe this Inglis versus Hayne thing is a bit of an unfair comparison.

 

[Joely01]

You are far too biased to be objective. I would rather take the general public's view of Hayne than some Hayne loving eels fan who can't see the bigger picture.

Most of the general public wouldn't have watched most of Haynes games the last two year because frankly we were running last and getting smashed every game. So I don't agree with this at all.
In fact I would say fans are harsher critics on there own players then other fans.

And some of the things I've talked to people about with Hayne or heard for mine sums up that he has become a superstar of the game.
Walking out if ANZ after the first game last year where Hayne had a blinder, I was talking to a QLDer and he said we are in trouble this year, we need Hayne to get injured. Well he got his wish lucky merkin.
It's comments like these for mine which sums up a superstar player, when opposition fans and you can imagine the qld players were thinking the same that, sweet Haynes out, start having these thoughts you are a star player. Not many players have that affect on the game.

 

[lingard]

I agree. Personally I think Hayne is not yet consistent enough to be considered elite. I also rate Inglis more highly than Hayne.

Is it possible that his 'inconsistency' might be more of an illusion - in large part due to his not having enough support around him at Parramatta? Inglis can have a quiet game at Souths and nobody notices (and they still win). Hayne has a quiet game at Parra, we get smashed, and everybody blames Hayne for being 'inconsistent'. In short, I think Hayne's 'inconsistency' might be a bit of a myth.

 

[Joely01]

But he's not a f**king superstar.

He has potential to be one of the greats and has the talent. But is too inconsistent, too injury prone and doesn't yet have the leadership skills of the truly great players in our game.

On potential and ability alone though he should be right up there and maybe one day he will. But not just yet.

Too inconsistent? This goes back to what I said earlier about people rating Hayne, they want a piece of brilliance every game. They don't notice what he has brought into his game like the cut out pass, his defensive game. His massively long kicking game. He has carried this team for quite some time, I don't think he has been inconsistent at all.

I didn't realize we rate leadership as part of being a great player now? How does Inglis show these qualities?
I agree at the start Hayne struggled with the captaincy but I thought as the season went on he started handling it much better.

 

[lingard]

Hayne is a superstar. So is Dugan. Hayne-Dugan-Inglis-Slater-Stuart are 5 great fullbacks.Not much between all of them.Hayne has the best all round game thou.Inglis best running.Stewart best positioning and support slater freakish player and did it fr 10 yrs and Dugan turned dragons around.Not much between all of them

Do you think Dugan's career has not yet been long enough to class him as a superstar?

 

[lingard]

So Cronk is even more of a superstar, add how many series over NSW in a row.

You are being ridiculous and making a fool of yourself.

Hayne is top-line but no superstar.

No, no, no, Magpie. He's not saying Hayne is a superstar because he's won those awards and accolades. He's saying that is just one indicator of Hayne's ability. (As is his ability to 'carry' a poor team).
Do you have any reasons why Hayne is 'top-line' but no superstar'?

 

[lingard]

Name me one other player from any other sport in the world that is in a team that has finished last the previous two years who people would refer to as a 'superstar'.

Sorry, Gary - but what relevance does that have?

 

[lingard]

You also can't blame Inglis for the fact that Hayne hasn't played a lot of finals footy.

I was just responding to an earlier post when I said that.

 

[lingard]

When I'm judging a player's ability I ask one question - how good is he likely to be in his next game.

I think a lot of people are getting confused by a player's past achievements (which are part of judging his current ability, but certainly not the same thing).

Ability is what you're going to do next time you take the field. I'd have my money on Hayne, Inglis, Thurston, Smith and SBW playing blinders over anyone else in the NRL.

Well, to be fair, I think that is a very subjective system. I think History is a more objective guide.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Tim Mannah was our best player last year.

 

[lingard]

But he's not a f**king superstar.

He has potential to be one of the greats and has the talent. But is too inconsistent, too injury prone and doesn't yet have the leadership skills of the truly great players in our game.

On potential and ability alone though he should be right up there and maybe one day he will. But not just yet.

Have you read what Joely 01 and I have both said about 'inconsistency'? What are your thoughts? As far as injuries go, I think Inglis has had his fair share, hasn't he? And in terms of truly great players - I don't think we're talking about them just yet. Do you mean players like Bobby Fulton, Clive Churchill, Johny Raper, Norm Proven, Dally Messenger? I think that might be a higher category than 'superstar'. We're just talking about superstar at this stage. So I'm not sure that leadership plays a great part. But in any case I think that Hayne's leadership qualities have been vastly under-rated over the last few years - and at least on a par with Inglis'.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Tim Mannah was our best player last year.

He was. That's one of the reasons (plus his age) I think he'll be among our best this year too.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well, to be fair, I think that is a very subjective system. I think History is a more objective guide.

So you think Hayne will have another year f**ked by injury? I certainly think it's very possible, and I think that due to his history. I also think he will be close to winning another Dally M if he can play 20+ games, and his history informs part of that assessment.

 

[magpie4ever]

No you didn't. You showed by a couple of measures (Dally M and current membership in the Australian team) that Cronk is the equal of Hayne. Cronk also plays in better club and Origin teams.

By every other measure, Hayne is better than Cronk. So you proved nothing. I'll concede Cronk is less injury prone and might have a better kicking game (two points you haven't raised, BTW).



Oh I conceded a point. See above. Pay attention to the bit where you proved nothing.

You have totally missed my point.

Using objective factors such as rep honours, awards, etc etc; I showed that Cooper Cronk has achieved the same level or a higher one than Hayne.

Do I believe Copper Cronk is a superstar? No

Do I believe Cooper Cronk is a better footballer than Hayne? No

Do I believe Jarryd Hayne is a superstar? No

But I believe that most Parramatta supporters will subjectively (that is the key word) rate Jarryd a superstar. As they are entitled too.

 

[magpie4ever]

I should have voted to kick you out...

How is he not elite? He regularly causes headaches for Queenslad in a NSW team filled with dreadfully average players. That means his team isn't making him shine - he's just shining because he's that good.

Ask Queenslanders which NSW player they'd love to have in their team, and they'd all easily say Hayne. He's the only NSW player who would walk into their 17.

Mate, that is just your opinion, there are no facts there. But as a Parramatta supporter, you are entitled to believe such.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You have totally missed my point.

Using objective factors such as rep honours, awards, etc etc; I showed that Cooper Cronk has achieved the same level or a higher one than Hayne.

Do I believe Copper Cronk is a superstar? No

Do I believe Cooper Cronk is a better footballer than Hayne? No

Do I believe Jarryd Hayne is a superstar? No

But I believe that most Parramatta supporters will subjectively (that is the key word) rate Jarryd a superstar. As they are entitled too.

Whatever most Parra fans think is irrelevant to what I think, as is what most non-Parra fans think. I'm sure most of them rate Cronk higher than Hayne as well, which is ridiculous.

Hayne is a superstar because of what he does on the field. The individual accolades are just further proof for people who want to argue that he doesn't have an abundance of every skill required of an NRL player. You can say he's slow, weak, and can't kick, pass or tackle. You can't say he hasn't won the Dally M or any of his other awards. You also can't argue with his stats.

 

[Eelementary]

Mate, that is just your opinion, there are no facts there. But as a Parramatta supporter, you are entitled to believe such.

Queensland fans in the NRL Forum made a big show and dance about how Hayne was not playing Game II. They also pretty much unanimously said he's the only bloke in NSW colours that would walk into the Maroons' 17. There was even an article last year saying the same thing - I remember it because someone was disputing the fact that Hayne would walk into the Maroons' squad and I found that article.

 

[magpie4ever]

Whatever most Parra fans think is irrelevant to what I think, as is what most non-Parra fans think. I'm sure most of them rate Cronk higher than Hayne as well, which is ridiculous.

Hayne is a superstar because of what he does on the field. The individual accolades are just further proof for people who want to argue that he doesn't have an abundance of every skill required of an NRL player. You can say he's slow, weak, and can't kick, pass or tackle. You can't say he hasn't won the Dally M or any of his other awards. You also can't argue with his stats.

Sorry, somehow in my mind; I did not think you was a f**kwit but I'm wrong.

Every few would rate Cronk a better natural footballer than Hayne.

But to quote a 15% win ratio to a 30% win ratio shows you are a goose. As said in one of my initial post on this subject, it is easier to lift a ratio from such a low base (15%) to another low ratio (30%) than the higher win ratio of the other players, you provided as example.

How can Inglis lift the win ratio from 52% to 104%, you are a rabid subjective Parramatta supporter has far as Hayne is concerned?

None of your objective figures, ratios show he is better than someone like Cronk.

Admit it Pooman, you subjectively rate Hayne a superstar because you are a one-eyed Parra supporter; not on facts and figures.