The Swamp

[magpie4ever]

So where's your objective proof that he's not a superstar? It's entirely a matter of opinion.

I gave you his list of achievements and accolades. Individual stats and statistical aggregators all show he performs as well as anyone in the game. I'm the only one who has given any evidence here.

Where's your counter evidence? All you've done is shriek "That's your opinion!" If you're unable to objectively prove that Hayne is not a superstar, how could anyone objectively prove that he is? And if it can't be proved either way then whatever you say is just your subjective opinion. Which makes your rant against subjectivity just a load of hypocrisy.

We both have an opinion. But I'm the only one with evidence supporting mine.

DROPKICK by the Magpie and it sails straight between the posts.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So all your talk of evidence was bullshit.

 

[magpie4ever]

So all your talk of evidence was bullshit.

Facts and figures: Cronk > Hayne. Game, set, match - the Magpie.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

LBAs are the key stat for a playmaker, and Cronk doesn't get enough of them to be considered elite.

Hayne excels in every statistical category. In 2011 when he played as a hybrid fullback/playmaker he had more LBAs than anyone else in the NRL bar Thurston and Marshall.

Whether you're dishonest or just stupid, you're not very good at this game. Must be why you've been moved to the swamp.

And if you think I'm biased, I was calling for Hayne to not be re-signed this year. I think he is so good (and expensive) that having him under our salary cap is too much of a risk, as we've seen in these past two years.

 

[magpie4ever]

LBAs are the key stat for a playmaker, and Cronk doesn't get enough of them to be considered elite.

Hayne excels in every statistical category. In 2011 when he played as a hybrid fullback/playmaker he had more LBAs than anyone else in the NRL bar Thurston and Marshall.

Whether you're dishonest or just stupid, you're not very good at this game. Must be why you've been moved to the swamp.

And if you think I'm biased, I was calling for Hayne to not be re-signed this year. I think he is so good (and expensive) that having him under our salary cap is too much of a risk, as we've seen in these past two years.

Please seek professional help.:crazy:

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Quality argument there. f**king amateur.

 

[magpie4ever]

Quality argument there. f**king amateur.

Verbosity - it is pointless; but do seek the help suggested.

 

[Eelementary]

Who, Moore and Choppy - the brain power of a worm there. You are now being silly.

They're die-hard Queenslanders, have achieved more in the game of rugby league at the elite level than you, and have been involved with more elite players than you.

They can be as dumb as you wish to call them, but in terms of football, they leave us all for dead.

If Jarryd wasn't elite, then how do you explain the fact his figures stack up favourably when compares to Slater, despite having played a handful of Slater's games in 2013?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Most of the general public wouldn't have watched most of Haynes games the last two year because frankly we were running last and getting smashed every game. So I don't agree with this at all.
In fact I would say fans are harsher critics on there own players then other fans.

And some of the things I've talked to people about with Hayne or heard for mine sums up that he has become a superstar of the game.
Walking out if ANZ after the first game last year where Hayne had a blinder, I was talking to a QLDer and he said we are in trouble this year, we need Hayne to get injured. Well he got his wish lucky merkin.
It's comments like these for mine which sums up a superstar player, when opposition fans and you can imagine the qld players were thinking the same that, sweet Haynes out, start having these thoughts you are a star player. Not many players have that affect on the game.

No offence, but talking to some random QLDer (who presumably based his assessment on the one Hayne game that he saw all year) is why you think he is a 'superstar'? I thought you said that these people who don't watch all of Hayne's games are not good judges.

I weigh up everything that I hear from everyone, including commentators who's opinions I respect. He is a very f**king good player but my personal opinion is that there are others that are better.

 

[Joely01]

No offence, but talking to some random QLDer (who presumably based his assessment on the one Hayne game that he saw all year) is why you think he is a 'superstar'? I thought you said that these people who don't watch all of Hayne's games are not good judges.

I weigh up everything that I hear from everyone, including commentators who's opinions I respect. He is a very f**king good player but my personal opinion is that there are others that are better.

No I think he is a superstar becuase he is.
The example I gave is just more of an example of the power he has on games.
Hayne plays game 2 and 3 NSW wins this year.

And I said those who don't always watch his games automatically think back to 09 and judge on that, or will judge on parra are last, Hayne Is s**t.

Whenever this sort of argument comes up I always go back to would someone like Inglis have avoided the spoon if he played with us? No. Would he look like the player he does now with south playing for us this year? No.
The fact that Hayne has been able to consistently press for rep teams the last few years in this dud team, speaks volumes of his talent, that is of being one of the games superstars.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Is it possible that his 'inconsistency' might be more of an illusion - in large part due to his not having enough support around him at Parramatta? Inglis can have a quiet game at Souths and nobody notices (and they still win). Hayne has a quiet game at Parra, we get smashed, and everybody blames Hayne for being 'inconsistent'. In short, I think Hayne's 'inconsistency' might be a bit of a myth.

No - it is not an illusion. I see everything that he does for our team and I am not one of these deadshits who thinks he hasn't been great since 2009.

However, my one main criticism of him is a player is the same criticism I had of Benji. I think because of how talented he is he sometimes overplays his hand as a playmaker and tries to come up with really difficult plays rather than waiting for the right time to choose the best option. And before someone comments on the crap players he has around him. I get that, but also don't think that excuses throwing a 40m bullet pass that even Usain Bolt would struggle to run on to.

Other nights he is out of this world in attack but overall I just wish he was a bit more consistent and measured. No issues with the rest of his game though. He positions himself well in defence and has become a superb defender.

It never ceases to amaze me how that anything other than saying "Hayne is the greatest player in the world" seems to get such an almighty reaction.

Is it possible that perhaps there might be some aspects of his game which Hayne is trying to improve on?

 

[Joely01]

While I wouldn't try to initiate a swap, I wouldn't have been disappointed at various times in the past few years if he was magically swapped for Thurston, or Cameron Smith, or more recently DCE. Why? Not because they're necessarily better players, but they have a more consistent impact on the game over a a larger number of games played (partly b/c of the position they play). I reckon we'd have won more games over the past 2 years if any of those swaps had occurred.

And again, I know the site rules to argue that JH is not definitely the greatest player to have participated in any ball sport, but that's how I see it.

You would swap DCE for Hayne?
DCE is a good player, but he isn't in the class of Hayne

 

[magpie4ever]

They're die-hard Queenslanders, have achieved more in the game of rugby league at the elite level than you, and have been involved with more elite players than you.

They can be as dumb as you wish to call them, but in terms of football, they leave us all for dead.

If Jarryd wasn't elite, then how do you explain the fact his figures stack up favourably when compares to Slater, despite having played a handful of Slater's games in 2013?

You don't know my background.

What is your point? The more games you play the more your stats can vary.

Hayne is a very good footballer who has had injuries over the past two seasons that have reduced his overall effectiveness for his club.

Billy Slater is the best fullback, I have ever seen; and I remember from Langlands onwards. Slater is a superstar.

 

[magpie4ever]

No I think he is a superstar becuase he is.
The example I gave is just more of an example of the power he has on games.
Hayne plays game 2 and 3 NSW wins this year.

And I said those who don't always watch his games automatically think back to 09 and judge on that, or will judge on parra are last, Hayne Is s**t.

Whenever this sort of argument comes up I always go back to would someone like Inglis have avoided the spoon if he played with us? No. Would he look like the player he does now with south playing for us this year? No.
The fact that Hayne has been able to consistently press for rep teams the last few years in this dud team, speaks volumes of his talent, that is of being one of the games superstars.

That is a big subjective call and if your uncle wasn't your uncle he would be your aunty.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Sorry, Gary - but what relevance does that have?

It goes to the heart if how normal sports fans (not biased fan boys who can't talk objectively about their favourite player) view players.

They are the ones who ultimately determine whether someone is a superstar. At the moment public opinion (including the opinions of experts who watch, commentate and report on the game) has Hayne lower down the list than others.

Sorry if you don't like or agree with this. But this is how it is unfortunately.

 

[Gary Gutful]

That is a big subjective call and if your uncle wasn't your uncle he would be your aunty.

Agreed. No-one knows for sure whether Hayne would have been the difference. Pretty subjective point on which to base an argument.

 

[Joely01]

No - it is not an illusion. I see everything that he does for our team and I am not one of these deadshits who thinks he hasn't been great since 2009.

However, my one main criticism of him is a player is the same criticism I had of Benji. I think because of how talented he is he sometimes overplays his hand as a playmaker and tries to come up with really difficult plays rather than waiting for the right time to choose the best option. And before someone comments on the crap players he has around him. I get that, but also don't think that excuses throwing a 40m bullet pass that even Usain Bolt would struggle to run on to.

Other nights he is out of this world in attack but overall I just wish he was a bit more consistent and measured. No issues with the rest of his game though. He positions himself well in defence and has become a superb defender.

It never ceases to amaze me how that anything other than saying "Hayne is the greatest player in the world" seems to get such an almighty reaction.

Is it possible that perhaps there might be some aspects of his game which Hayne is trying to improve on?

I don't think Hayne is the greatest player in the world, I think Thurston is.

I just don't think people rate Hayne where he deserves to be rated.
For instance Hayne compared to Inglis, now most will pick Inglis.
But when's the last time you have watched Inglis take a rep game and excel in it? Probably about 2 years for mine. This years rep games he was very quite I thought, I find him to be a very good player and a superstar of the game but can be quite lazy.
Hayne look at the World Cup and first game of origin goes to that next level in rep games.

So why would say 8/10 people rather Inglis in their team then Hayne?

 

[Gary Gutful]

I don't think Hayne is the greatest player in the world, I think Thurston is.

I just don't think people rate Hayne where he deserves to be rated.
For instance Hayne compared to Inglis, now most will pick Inglis.
But when's the last time you have watched Inglis take a rep game and excel in it? Probably about 2 years for mine. This years rep games he was very quite I thought, I find him to be a very good player and a superstar of the game but can be quite lazy.
Hayne look at the World Cup and first game of origin goes to that next level in rep games.

So why would say 8/10 people rather Inglis in there team then Hayne?

Because Inglis is a proven winner. Hayne isn't.

Personally, I'd have them on par.

 

[Joely01]

Because Inglis is a proven winner. Hayne isn't.

Personally, I'd have them on par.

This is exactly my point. Honestly Inglis hasn't threatened in an Aus game or Qld game in about 2 years (unless I've forgotten a game)
Hayne was leading try scorer in the World Cup after playing 4-5 games, I'd call that a proven winners effort, wouldn't you? I'm not even counting Haynes line breaks or try assists for the World Cup.

 

[magpie4ever]

I don't think Hayne is the greatest player in the world, I think Thurston is.

I just don't think people rate Hayne where he deserves to be rated.
For instance Hayne compared to Inglis, now most will pick Inglis.
But when's the last time you have watched Inglis take a rep game and excel in it? Probably about 2 years for mine. This years rep games he was very quite I thought, I find him to be a very good player and a superstar of the game but can be quite lazy.
Hayne look at the World Cup and first game of origin goes to that next level in rep games.

So why would say 8/10 people rather Inglis in their team then Hayne?

Because that it what people think. It should not upset Parra supporters.

Some also rate Inglis a better fullback than Slater; but anyone with any league knowledge knows that is not so.