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The text I just received

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
So tell me Einstien, why wasnt Inu picked and why did the club f**k him off ?

I don't know the definitive answer to that, and neither do you.

But, it was certainly more a case of poor player management rather than the player himself. He was doing this job on the field bar two or three bad ones throughout his time here, and we give Manu and Ropati much more leniency than Inu ever got. Part of a coaches job is to get the best out of a team, we completely failed him and the Doggies didn't.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,449
I never said that. I do say the problems the club is having right now go way beyond the coach.
I also say the team is 100% behind the coach, despite all the rumours, inuendo and assorted bullshit flying around these boards.

So tell me Einstien, why wasnt Inu picked and why did the club f**k him off ?

No side that is 100 percent behind the coach loses by 40 points in consecutive weekends.

And I'd suggest Bluey makes not only team selections, but has the final say on signings as well. It's not Dean Bell's sole ownership.
 
Messages
10,047
I keep hearing about how injuries are the reason this team has gone so poorly with inexperience having to play, so thought I would look up the Grand Final side to see how much different it is

New Zealand Warriors
1 Kevin Locke, 2 Bill Tupou, 3 Lewis Brown, 4 Krisnan Inu, 5 Manu Vatuvei, 6 James Maloney, 7 Shaun Johnson, 8 Sam Rapira, 9 Aaron Heremaia, 10 Jacob Lillyman, 11 Feleti Mateo, 12 Simon Mannering [c], 13 Micheal Luck. Subs: 14 Lance Hohaia, 15 Russell Packer, 16 Ben Matulino, 17 Elijah Taylor, 20 Steve Rapira (one to be omitted).

So if we go through that

Locke injured a bit and not playing well
Inu club decision to cut loose, wouldnt have the inexperience out there if kept
Heremaia, another club call after signing Friend
Rapira, gone all year, big loss but in a position they should be able to cover adequately
Luck gone most of the year, a big loss
Hohaia, another club decision, maybe salary cap based, but again if he is retained inexperience isn't such a big issue

All in all, I am not so sure injuries are as huge a factor as made out, club decisions on retention are a bigger issue
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
Sam Rapira
JRo
Luck
Friend
Steve Rapira
Manu
Mannering
Lillyman
Locke

Maybe not huge, but I would say it has had a pretty damned big impact on our season..

Inu wouldnt have played FG. Retention ?
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
Maybe not huge, but I would say it has had a pretty damned big impact on our season..

Inu wouldnt have played FG. Retention ?

Sam Rapira - Yes
JRo - Wasn't playing well anyway, Henry actually did a reasonable job for cover
Luck - Yes
Friend - Mara filled in nicely, Brown was awful though
Steve Rapira - Wasn't a regular anyway
Manu - Gets injured every season, we had Inu for cover in theory
Mannering - Yes
Lillyman - Yes somewhat, Ta'ai and Lousi should have been able to cover it
Locke - Yes especially since the Fish was terrible

Enough to drop us from top four (where we should be) to top eight. But bottom three? There is a lot more than just injuries or bad luck to blame there, we aren't fielding a team of nobodies week in and out (see Penrith) and should definitely be strong enough to not cop 40 point hidings.
 

Izz

Bench
Messages
3,920
Right. the experts reckoned we had the best prop rotation in the comp last year.

Difference this year is Sam Rapira out hurt and Sione in.

Im not blaming Lousi..
So shouldn't Bluey have spotted that the propping rotation wasn't working as Cleary had it last year (in terms of minutes played, subbing on and off, etc) and adjusted accordingly?
 
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Juju

Juniors
Messages
1,712
where would you like to start ?

The coach coaches people at his disposal. Ask D Bell who calls the shots in regard to who the FG coach has available..
To say the coach had no say at all in retention last year is crazy. He basically immediately off loaded Isaac John as soon as he was appointed...
 
Messages
10,047
Sam Rapira
JRo
Luck
Friend
Steve Rapira
Manu
Mannering
Lillyman
Locke

Maybe not huge, but I would say it has had a pretty damned big impact on our season..

Inu wouldnt have played FG. Retention ?

Your last line is a perfect example of poor coaching and management IMO. The Warriors are being carved up in the areas Inu would have filled, but they weren't good enough to try and get the best out of him, such as Hasler has. But that has all been gone over before

The reason that so many 20s have been getting a run, is a cull in experience to retain them, and it hasn't worked. A guy like Hohaia should have been kept, experienced and covered all areas they are now struggling in as well

If I go to Manly for a little bit, we have been hammered by injuries and suspension, both Stewarts, Matai, both Williams, King etc have all missed big chunks of time, but the squad balance is far better to cover it, and I believe the Warriors balance in their squad has been set up poorly
 

Warmess

Juniors
Messages
870
^ Plus Toovey doesn't appear to have come in and shaken up all the systems in place. I haven't seen a ton of Manly games this season, but what I have seen looks very, very similar to the way you guys played last year. Hasler took them to the GF, Toovey stepped in and hasn't turned the ship 180, look where they are now.
 

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
To point the figure at injuries is stupid.

Every team gets hit with the injury stick and the Warriors have proven over the last few years that we can get by with crippling injuries. Not to mention its quite often the same players getting injured (Rapiras, Manu, Ropati, Locke) so the club should be able to forecast and prepare for these recurring injured players.

The thing with injuries is how you DEAL with them. Ill explain as per below:

Lillyman and Rapira injuries weren't too bad seeing as Lousi has done a good job and Matulino and Packer have both been great. We coped well here. We've had Lillyman for back end of the season at least anyway.

Ropati injury - should have been covered by Inu but the club cut him and persisted with Henry anyway so thats the club fault.

Locke injury - Has still played alot this season and Fish should have stepped up. He did well in 2 games there last year, coaches not doing the job bringing him up to speed?

Luck injury - The biggest loss and maybe the one that we cant manage very well because despite our backrower depth, Luck provides huge experience toughness and workrate that no one else at the club can replicate bar maybe Mannering.

Mannering - Season was over before he was injured anyway.

Manu - Always gets injured so its to be expected, again Inu was more than adequate cover.

Friend - Poor use of replacements. Mara was good, Brown was shit but they still persisted with using Brown. It should have been Godinet/Mara and we would have been fine.
 
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beefstew

Juniors
Messages
505
I don't know the definitive answer to that, and neither do you.

But, it was certainly more a case of poor player management rather than the player himself. He was doing this job on the field bar two or three bad ones throughout his time here, and we give Manu and Ropati much more leniency than Inu ever got. Part of a coaches job is to get the best out of a team, we completely failed him and the Doggies didn't.


The answer is simple....he wasn't doing what was asked of him, we dont know what those things were, but it doesn't take a huge chunk of common sense to work out that if he was doing what he was expected to do, he would still be here.
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
^ Plus Toovey doesn't appear to have come in and shaken up all the systems in place. I haven't seen a ton of Manly games this season, but what I have seen looks very, very similar to the way you guys played last year. Hasler took them to the GF, Toovey stepped in and hasn't turned the ship 180, look where they are now.

Toovs wouldn't have been so stubborn in regard to playing someone if needed either. This whole Inu fiasco was ridiculous, idiotic, and an incredulous double standard. The guy was called on as an absolute last resort, in assorted positions, and if he didn't have an absolute out and out blinder was dropped again.
By the same token, we've had favourites have shockers from hell and wouldn't get dropped even if the coach was blackmailed with porno pics. It was deadset crazy.
Anyone been dropped from the last few weeks mess-or is it such a shit across the entire team no one could be?
But yeah, quite right- Toovs has kept it business as usual. Bluey no doubt has his own ways and plans, but change can be just gradual, it need not be so instant. If a team is so used to a specific way, then forced to play another, it's bound to cause problems. Seems to make more sense to keep various things that are working while tweeking other parts to compliment it.
What's the difference in the backline that's copped a hiding in the last couple of weeks to the one that did so well last year? Very little. One player isn't it? That is very worrying.
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
The answer is simple....he wasn't doing what was asked of him, we dont know what those things were, but it doesn't take a huge chunk of common sense to work out that if he was doing what he was expected to do, he would still be here.

Bluey was hit up several times in interviews on radio sport with that question specifically, on that player specifically. His answers were of the usual confusing and contradicting standard. Every reason he gave for not selecting Inu could directly and more so be applied to players he 'wouldn't hear of dropping.' Double standard, and one that IMO has cost him dearly. I think he should be given a second year to make ammends, the more I hear from Scurrah and the like, I'd be a worried bloke if I was Bluey.
 

kos

Juniors
Messages
120
Sean Berrigan?
He must have been a bloody good defender, I had noted him as good, but we must be missing him.
And then of course Auckland born K Inu got us into good progress with that amazing performance against the Tigers.
Lance , yep should have been kept would have swung a couple more wins this year.
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
Double standard,

The problem with double standards is that even if only a few are getting the rough end of the stick, the favourites (who are mates with the guys on the outer) notice and the bad feeling permeates through the whole team, regardless if you're a favourite or not.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,449
Your last line is a perfect example of poor coaching and management IMO. The Warriors are being carved up in the areas Inu would have filled, but they weren't good enough to try and get the best out of him, such as Hasler has. But that has all been gone over before

The reason that so many 20s have been getting a run, is a cull in experience to retain them, and it hasn't worked. A guy like Hohaia should have been kept, experienced and covered all areas they are now struggling in as well

If I go to Manly for a little bit, we have been hammered by injuries and suspension, both Stewarts, Matai, both Williams, King etc have all missed big chunks of time, but the squad balance is far better to cover it, and I believe the Warriors balance in their squad has been set up poorly

Of course it was bad management to get rid of Inu. We got robbed blindly by Greenberg and he made us feel like we got a good deal. If the Dogs were so keen to have him, they would have taken him in 2013. For some reason we felt compelled to bend over for them, pay Inu's salary and off-load him. Insanity. We'd still be outside the eight - possibly - but we'd have gone a lot better with the likes of Omar and Fish having to play on wings, Tupou in crap form etc.

As for Hohaia, I doubt we could have matched what St Helens were offering. Berrigan, maybe we could have but he's getting older every year. Although he's filled a purpose for the Raiders.

Scurrah admitted we need to widen our net as far as senior squad members are concerned, not use the 20s as a depth pool.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
According to Tony Vietch there is a big announcement this morning re coaching..

Stay tuned.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,449
Call me cynical, call me reasoned but how is there going to be a new announcement this morning re coaching when a) the season isn't over and b) the review hasn't been done?

This Kearney to Warriors thing smacks to me of Aussie media leading the charge because they've interviewed their keyboard, it's told them Kearney is a Kiwi and a former Warrior, he doesn't have a job, Bluey sucks, so that's who's going to coach now.
 

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