Time for Moylan to 5/8

[BxTom]

Right now I would not swap Moylan for Dugan but give Cleary a couple years to develop and maybe I would, its worth noting how much of a better defensive fb dugan is as that is quite valuable.

Anyway Gus probably just got sick of arguing with everyone when he insists Moylan is a FB.

That would be my guess too.

Tom.

 

[maple_69]

Some perspective on Moylans season and standing in the game.

This year he has 16 line break assists and 13 try assists from 15 games (16/13/15). The past two years he has put up 11/11/11 and 17/18/25. So he's creating opportunities at a similar rate to previous years.

Comparing him to the other leaders of these key creation stats he is keeping pace with the 3 clear standout creators in the league and way ahead of everyone else (in particular the full backs outside of Barba).
Moylan- 16/13/15
Johnson- 23/17/20
Thurston- 18/18/17
Brooks- 19/14/18
Milford- 12/8/20
Cronk- 14/17/19
Barba- 16/16/20

So he is keeping up with the best opportunity creators in the league and is streets ahead of all full backs except Barba.

In terms of other stats lets look at how he fairs (runs per game/metres per game/linebreaks per game/tackle busts per game/errors per game) compared to his previous seasons and other play making full backs this year.

Moylan 2016- 15/106/0.2/1.5/0.93
Moylan 2015- 15/126/0.45/1.7/1.45
Moylan 2014- 13/111/0.48/2.2/1.2
Boyd 2016- 12/122/0.4/2.4/0.26
Coote 2016- 11/76/0.2/1.4/0.95
Barba 2016- 11/102/0.7/4.1/0.85

What i take out of that is that his error rate is dropping and his involvement returning kicks hasnt really changed. He is making less tackle busts, less line breaks and less meters. Nothing significant though so i think you could explain it by his shift in role to be delivering the pass rather than receiving. Comparing him to the other guys and his running stats are similar and error rate is similar (outside of Boyd who is outrageous). Obviously all those guys are way off the numbers of the running full backs like Dugan and Teddy.

He is quite clearly the best play making fullback in the world. I think Penrith can use that with our young halves. He's a guy that's going to create 2 effective try scoring opportunities every game, be safe at the back, lean on one of the most effective ball runners in the league to do the pig work and let in the odd 50/50 try. He's right there if Martin doesn't pan out or starts demanding big money but I think Moylan has the kind of class and marketability that you shouldn't be letting go of at all costs. You fit him into the side.

 

[Pomoz]

First class analysis maple_69. I wish the journalists who wrote for the Terrorgraph used such analysis instead of beating the drum of their favourites when SOO comes around.

If TMM does play 5/8th and you add Moylan's creativity at FB and Cartwright's creativity at lock, Latu at prop and you are talking about Cowboys quality in attack once it starts gelling. JFH, Grev's and Yeo are showing they are developing good hole running skills and they can feast on this ball playing capability when we get our two centres back to stretch the defence more (Peachey off the bench). Add more grunt up front with Tamou next year and oh boy, what a team! To be honest, I can't see how we could keep this team together, it will be that good. The salary cap will kill it within a year. Good while it lasts though.

 

[Doomednow]

Goddamn maple that is top notch. Really paints a good picture. Might have to reference this in the future.

 

[mxlegend99]

So statistically his playmaking stats are comparable to the best halves.

His non assist figures aren't as outstanding however. This is the area he is furthest behind.

Tries scored:
Ben Barba - 13
Darius Boyd - 8
Lachlan Coote - 4
Matt Moylan - 2

The stats proves the area he excels in is playmaking. He's a good fullback, but he could be a great half it focuses on his strengths and removes most of his weaknesses.

His role would be nearly identical. Just someone else receiving kicks and hopefully returning them rather than dumping it off to a winger. Also hopefully they would support the ball runner in attack.

 

[betcats]

Moylan needs to be in the halves asap. A Cleary Moylan combination would be so good. Maples stats show how good he is at creating for others, his skillset is that of a half and he needs to be getting as many touches as a half does which means eventually he will be taking touches away from someone. It seriously worries me that we have a coach who thought Josh Hoffman could play 5/8th but thinks Moylan isn't suited to it.

 

[snickers007]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Moylan's playmaking might go backwards at 6. At the moment he is taking the ball 2,3 sometimes 4 passes from the ruck. At five-eighth he'll be first, sometimes second.

That makes the defensive line a lot more compressed, and will certainly limit his options.

To maintain his current style and output we're going to need a similar style fullback (which we don't have in DWZ, Hardaker or Edwards) or we need to insert forwards into our set plays to get Moylan out a bit wider, in which case I'm left wondering why bother changing.

I accept the criticism of his kick returns, but I can't help but see a relationship between that and the overwhelmingly positive reception to Mansours running metres. Perhaps Mansours impact would be restricted if we had a stronger runner at FB.

I'm in the wait and see camp at the moment. If we can get TMM back in first grade next week, and he kills it at 6, we can work around Moylan's deficiencies at 1. Else we can groom TMM to succeed Wallace at 9, and move Moylan to 6.

 

[betcats]

Mate he spends as much time at first and second receiver now then he does further out, if not more. Why do we need a ball playing fullback to accommodate a ball playing half? That doesn't make sense to me, the ball is rarely going from Cleary to Bryce to Moylan, Moylan is almost always in at second receiver, and this season is getting into first receiver a lot. A FB who is a running threat adds a dimension to our attack that we don't have now as well.

 

[mxlegend99]

His attacking play wouldnt change much at all. The change would be him not dropping to fullback in defence and not returning kicks. In attack he's already playing as our 5/8th a lot of the time.

The big changes would be:

Someone else returns kicks and is our last line of defence. Moylan rarely returned kicks anyway so it saves him dumping it off to Mansour or DWZ

Cartwright goes back to playing as a roaming second rower/lock.. which happens when TMM returns anyway

Moylan defends in the line.

Cartwright would play further out and be more damaging IMO. He has the size speed and strength to rip the edges to bits. Or once he has drawn in the defence the centre/wingers can.

Edit
Carty scored a try and setup Blake for a try from the position on the field he would be chiming in.

 

[franklin2323]

you guys are dreaming if you think Moylan making 20-30 tackles a game won't affect his attack. Did you also miss the less then 1 error a game? If we can't maintain that at fullback then the is no point moving him.

 

[betcats]

It would be an adjustment for Moylan but every other half has to defend and still come up with some attack there is no reason Moylan couldn't do it. Fullbacks already run a shitload more than any other player so I thinks its a bit overstated how much more tiring playing 5/8th would be.

 

[franklin2323]

It would be an adjustment for Moylan but every other half has to defend and still come up with some attack there is no reason Moylan couldn't do it. Fullbacks already run a shitload more than any other player so I thinks its a bit overstated how much more tiring playing 5/8th would be.

Someone who's 26 and has a poor tackle technique though is slightly different. Regardless until we get a fullback then can do a job for us we shouldn't even think of the move. Move him to 5/8th is wasted if we are giving up scrum feeds inside our 20m line due to errors at the back

 

[mxlegend99]

you guys are dreaming if you think Moylan making 20-30 tackles a game won't affect his attack. Did you also miss the less then 1 error a game? If we can't maintain that at fullback then the is no point moving him.

He didnt struggle when he did it for NSW. Lockyer made the move and was a worse defender. It didnt hurt his attack at all.

 

[franklin2323]

He didnt struggle when he did it for NSW. Lockyer made the move and was a worse defender. It didnt hurt his attack at all.

1 game is far different and remind me how many Try Assists did he have for NSW?

 

[umina panther]

1 game is far different and remind me how many Try Assists did he have for NSW?

Jennings the spastic dropped one from a brilliant chip kick in game 2

 

[maple_69]

Franklin that's probably exactly the point i was circling around. Would he be better at 5/8? Maybe. I think so. Is it holding out side back leaving him at fullback? I don't think so.

If DWZ was firing I think it would be an obvious move but he's not. So our choices are Moylan/Martin/Cleary/Wallace or an unproven Edwards or DWZ at the back with Moylan/Cleary/Wallace. At the moment we fit more proven match winners in the side with Moylan at the back.

A few other points. This is Moylan playing in a team without a five eighth. How does he go when he can concentrate on his role? What impact would it have on our goal line defence with a less experienced fullback organizing the line?

He has his weaknesses but he is a world class fullback and I think it's nowhere near as obvious as many make out that we should be shifting him. Particularly when a lot of the arguments leaned on are based around him not performing at fullback.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

Well Said Maple & Franklin...

We move Moylan who is going to play Fullback? DWZ should be in reserve grade, Edwards has played 1 game, and we potentially lose TMM. If Moylan doesnt fire at 5/8, and TMM decides to move on, we are screwed once again in the halves.

With TMM back and a good off season for both he and Cleary, Moylan can focus on what he needs to do in his role.

Moylan, he made his name in that 2014 team, playing fullback. TMM looked the goods there before being injured, i just cant see us weakening one spot to borderline gain nothing in another spot.

 

[Panther Mick]

Lockyer was a terrible defender. He use to hide in defence and let Tonie Carroll do all the defensive work.
Whether you want Moylan in 5/8 or not, I would have to say from a defensive perspective at their young age Martin and Cleary are better defenders than Moylan is now. Not that halves get solely picked on defence.

 

[mxlegend99]

1 game is far different and remind me how many Try Assists did he have for NSW?

How many did he have at fullback?

While he didn't throw the last pass for it. He came up with the big play to get Jennings in range to score the match winner in Game 3. His linebreak assist to Ferguson came when we needed someone to step up and he did so.

He was far better at 5/8th then at fullback. The extra tackles didn't hurt him at all and it was the most comfortable he looked in Origin. Despite being his debut there. Not having to contest kicks and return them took out his biggest weakness. He would only improve with time in that position.

Unless theres a lot of injuries his rep career at fullback is over. But Daley would pick him at 6 in a heartbeat if he played 6 for Panthers. The fact he did so without playing there before at first grade level just strengthens his claim to the 6.

I want Moylan to be a Panther for life. But the odds at that happening are pretty low if we don't move him to the halves. Other clubs will offer him a spot there. His rep career will be better for it and so will he. He cant hold off players who are bigger, stronger and faster at fullback forever.

You also neglected to comment on Darren Lockyer (the player he has been compared to since his debut) making the move successfully. He couldn't tackle to save his life byt it was the best thing for him, his club and his state.

Hell even Anthony Milford has successfully made the move and while it wasnt an immediate success he was in career best form when it mattered last year. Moylan has more of a halves skillset then Milford did.

 

[franklin2323]

Well Said Maple & Franklin...

We move Moylan who is going to play Fullback? DWZ should be in reserve grade, Edwards has played 1 game, and we potentially lose TMM. If Moylan doesnt fire at 5/8, and TMM decides to move on, we are screwed once again in the halves.

With TMM back and a good off season for both he and Cleary, Moylan can focus on what he needs to do in his role.

Moylan, he made his name in that 2014 team, playing fullback. TMM looked the goods there before being injured, i just cant see us weakening one spot to borderline gain nothing in another spot.

That's my thoughts exactly. I think we get the same impact from Moylan at best if we move him. That's cancelled out if we are making errors coming off our line. Hiku back next and A Pre-season training will sort out how we line up for next year.