Time for Moylan to 5/8

[bebo]

But he played exactly as he did last year. Thats my point.

His leg injury had nothing to do with his inability to know when a play is on and when he needs to take the safe option.

Everyone including opposition defences could see when he was going for those plays.

A half needs more than just skills. He needs to be able to manage a game and know when its an acceptable time to go for the risky play.

Carty cant help but gamble when he is at 6. He cant handle the responsibility like Moylan can.

Your point was he throws intercepts if I am reading correctly and I don't remember one last year which was my point, he once again was playing on one leg this year so far and was unable to take on the line and as you also state " a half needs more than just skills" he is not a half never has been never will be , but filled in as required for the coach. He has not been allowed to develop as a back rower at all but people feel free to bag the crap out of him for being mishandled if I was him I would be asking for a release as his career is being hampered ATM

 

[Pomoz]

r

Ao because I think a player who has a shitload more bad games then good when he tries playmaking isnt suited to 6... it has to be for some pther reason?

I like Cartwright and hes in my top 17 for sure. Just not at half.

only ond player in the competition had a worse error rate. Cartwright makes errors brcause he has no concept of when the time is right to take arisk. At 6 he always tries to make something happen. Which means he oftrn does. But even more often he costs us. He isnt a playmaker.

Yes he has the sbility to do special things. But he doesnt have the brains to know when it is on. Hes a second rower/lock with agreat skillset. He's not a half.

It's like we're trying to do the opposite of what Sharks did with Wade Graham.

He's a great ball runner. He has sgreat offload and he can play to support players. That should be his order of priority. Ball running makes his other skills more dangerous because he attracts a lot of defenders and can still pop an offload away. Which gives us second phase against a broken defensive line. Imagine how good Dylan Edwards will be running off those offloads. We finally have a fullbackthat supports our ball runners and has the speed, strength and footwork to punish teams.

This spine will make Carty more dangerous. As will alloeing him to focus on being a second rower

Good response, except as I pointed out he makes the same errors as a number of other highly rated playmakers such as Milford and Morgan, both of which finished in sides above us on the table (therefore surrounded by better players). Both of those players escape criticism for errors and Tommy turbo is feted as the next best thing since the invention of the Nutri-bullet. Tommy turbo made the same number of errors with 3 games less!

I agree he is in the top 17 and can add a dimension to our attack that we really need. Edwards is probably checking with Cartwright's physio to see when he will be back because he should have a field day when he is fit.

 

[mxlegend99]

r

Good response, except as I pointed out he makes the same errors as a number of other highly rated playmakers such as Milford and Morgan, both of which finished in sides above us on the table (therefore surrounded by better players). Both of those players escape criticism for errors and Tommy turbo is feted as the next best thing since the invention of the Nutri-bullet. Tommy turbo made the same number of errors with 3 games less!

I agree he is in the top 17 and can add a dimension to our attack that we really need. Edwards is probably checking with Cartwright's physio to see when he will be back because he should have a field day when he is fit.

For every try assist Carty has for us, He has 2 for the opposition

He has 2 try assists in 4 games at 6 this year. But he has 7 errors.

Moylan in 2 games at half has 3 errors. But he has 3 try assists and 2 tries. None of those errors were throwing an extremely risky pass either.

Cartwright is a gun player who has had his development f**ked over massively by trying to be used in a way that he just isnt fit to be used.

Lock or second row. Let him use his skillset but tell him his main job is to take the hitups snd draw in defenders. Then play what he sees. Edwards will follow him and Carty will be creating more tries and linebreaks with simple low ridk footy than he could dream of by trying to play like he is Thurston.

His frame is the biggest weapon in his arsenal. He is big and strong. He has ridiculous skills for his size. his career csn go the way of Wade Graham if we just let him develop in his natural position

 

[OldPanther]

How is this an argument? Carty isn't a half. He's a ball playing second rower. Does it matter beyond that. He will compliment our halves and fullback if given a simple role as a back rower or lock when back. Last year he didn't throw intercepts. This year he did a couple.

 

[bebo]

Injured legs cause you to throw intercepts do they?

And he was equal second for errors made last year. 33 errors beaten only by Wighton with 41 errors.

He was capable of a good game on occassion at 6. But he always tried to force plays and snd they regularly failed

r

Good response, except as I pointed out he makes the same errors as a number of other highly rated playmakers such as Milford and Morgan, both of which finished in sides above us on the table (therefore surrounded by better players). Both of those players escape criticism for errors and Tommy turbo is feted as the next best thing since the invention of the Nutri-bullet. Tommy turbo made the same number of errors with 3 games less!

I agree he is in the top 17 and can add a dimension to our attack that we really need. Edwards is probably checking with Cartwright's physio to see when he will be back because he should have a field day when he is fit.[/QUO

How is this an argument? Carty isn't a half. He's a ball playing second rower. Does it matter beyond that. He will compliment our halves and fullback if given a simple role as a back rower or lock when back. Last year he didn't throw intercepts. This year he did a couple.

exacatly ,how this keeps getting any time is ludicrous

 

[bebo]

For every try assist Carty has for us, He has 2 for the opposition

He has 2 try assists in 4 games at 6 this year. But he has 7 errors.

Moylan in 2 games at half has 3 errors. But he has 3 try assists and 2 tries. None of those errors were throwing an extremely risky pass either.

Cartwright is a gun player who has had his development f**ked over massively by trying to be used in a way that he just isnt fit to be used.

Lock or second row. Let him use his skillset but tell him his main job is to take the hitups snd draw in defenders. Then play what he sees. Edwards will follow him and Carty will be creating more tries and linebreaks with simple low ridk footy than he could dream of by trying to play like he is Thurston.

His frame is the biggest weapon in his arsenal. He is big and strong. He has ridiculous skills for his size. his career csn go the way of Wade Graham if we just let him develop in his natural position

If you want to rely on stats to base your assessment in Carty wouldn't it be fair to wait for the same number of games so you can compare apples to apples

 

[umina panther]

You have to be pretty special (like our coach) if you think Carty should ever play in the halves. He's had his career f**ked around more than Moylan.

Carty at a good club like Melboure,Brisbane or Easts would be the best second rower in the world by now

 

[billypilgrimnz]

You have to be pretty special (like our coach) if you think Carty should ever play in the halves. He's had his career f**ked around more than Moylan.

Carty at a good club like Melboure,Brisbane or Easts would be the best second rower in the world by now

Hey, that coach is going to be extended for 2 years! Franklin must be out dancing in the streets at the news....

 

[betcats]

r

Good response, except as I pointed out he makes the same errors as a number of other highly rated playmakers such as Milford and Morgan, both of which finished in sides above us on the table (therefore surrounded by better players). Both of those players escape criticism for errors and Tommy turbo is feted as the next best thing since the invention of the Nutri-bullet. Tommy turbo made the same number of errors with 3 games less!

I agree he is in the top 17 and can add a dimension to our attack that we really need. Edwards is probably checking with Cartwright's physio to see when he will be back because he should have a field day when he is fit.

There is absolutely no comparison between Morgan, Milford and Carty as halves. This is just ridiculous.

 

[Pomoz]

There is absolutely no comparison between Morgan, Milford and Carty as halves. This is just ridiculous.

How so? They made a high number of errors playing in the halves. So did Cartwright. Your point?

 

[betcats]

How so? They made a high number of errors playing in the halves. So did Cartwright. Your point?

Do you watch footy? I don't care what stats you quote, both Morgan and Milford are good(atleast) halves at this level, cartwright is so far from that its not funny.

Edit: Cartwright only played half a season in the halves FYI.

 

[OldPanther]

Do you watch footy? I don't care what stats you quote, both Morgan and Milford are good(atleast) halves at this level, cartwright is so far from that its not funny.

To support this our good form last year came from Moylan stepping in as a half in attack and Carty being an extra forward with a bit of ball playing.

 

[betcats]

I still rate Carty highly, he has all the skills needed to play in the halves, but his decision making and game management is years away from being near nrl quality. We have done him zero favours f**king him around in the halves, his game hasn't developed or grown at all for about 2 years now though injury has played its part in that.

HE should be on the verge of Origin selection in the forwards but at this point would you even have him in Penriths top 13? I wouldn't, to much risk that he will do something dumb or just get burned defensively.

 

[Pomoz]

Do you watch footy? I don't care what stats you quote, both Morgan and Milford are good(atleast) halves at this level, cartwright is so far from that its not funny.

Edit: Cartwright only played half a season in the halves FYI.

How does pointing out that halves make a lot of errors mean that I think Cartwright is as good as them? If we criticise Cartwright for his errors when he is playing as a half, then we need to look at what errors others in the same position make. Halves make errors, it goes with play making and trying to create something.

I agree he needs to make fewer errors and I suspect his error rate will improve when he is not playing as a half. Game management in the halves takes years to develop to the level of a Thurston or Cronk. You see the same issue with Cleary when he just makes dumb kicks instead of playing what's in front of him.

There are plenty of people slagging Cartwright off in here, so I'll make my final point and leave it at that. In my view, he did a good job filling in as a half when the club needed him too. He doesn't deserve opprobrium for helping the club out. His combination with Moylan worked well, because he was willing to get out of the way and let Moylan make the play when required. Some player's ego won't let them do that.

We got to the semi's with Cartwright as a 5/8th. In doing so he delivered some impressive stats and performances that bear comparison with other established halves such as Maloney and Morgan (tries, assists, line break assists etc). For a first up effort, I think he did pretty well. Sure he made a lot of mistakes, but then he would since he was new to that position in first grade and he was partnering an 18 year old kid (a fact overlooked by most). I don't think he is as far from the likes of Morgan or Maloney as you say. But he will need a few more years of development as a half to get there and that isn't going to happen. I also think his lack of pace means he will probably never be a top drawer half.

Now we have Moylan and Edward's so we will never know what Cartwright could do. But now he can go back to the back row and develop his game.

 

[Pomoz]

I still rate Carty highly, he has all the skills needed to play in the halves, but his decision making and game management is years away from being near nrl quality. We have done him zero favours f**king him around in the halves, his game hasn't developed or grown at all for about 2 years now though injury has played its part in that.

HE should be on the verge of Origin selection in the forwards but at this point would you even have him in Penriths top 13? I wouldn't, to much risk that he will do something dumb or just get burned defensively.

I agree with most of what you said. Halves need time to develop game management that's why you never want two rookie halves. You would only put time into Cartwright in that position if you thought that was his best position. Is it his best position? I'll answer that in replying to your question does he make the 13.

Cartwright would be in my team at lock. I would have Merrin in the front row. Either Tamou or RCG would drop to the bench. On current form it would be Tamou.

Why would I do that? It is often overlooked that Cartwright has a massive engine. He made the third most tackles in the team last year even after playing out of position at 5/8th and chasing faster players. His defence is fine when he is in the right position. I remember Trent Waterhouse playing in the centres for Australia after a centre was injured and he was like a turnstile as players run around him, yet he was a good defender. Anyway, Yeo, Cartwright and CNH would be a formidable combination that can play 80 minutes freeing the bench up for forwards. CNH can play in the centres if needed as can YEO. Cartwright can fill in the halves if they are injured or if Moylan is needed to replace the fullback. That is a lot of flexibility. Add to that, Cartwright brings ball playing skills that Yeo and CNH just don't have and suddenly our attacking options open up.

In my view, that is a forward pack that can win a premiership.

 

[OldPanther]

I agree with most of what you said. Halves need time to develop game management that's why you never want two rookie halves. You would only put time into Cartwright in that position if you thought that was his best position. Is it his best position? I'll answer that in replying to your question does he make the 13.

Cartwright would be in my team at lock. I would have Merrin in the front row. Either Tamou or RCG would drop to the bench. On current form it would be Tamou.

Why would I do that? It is often overlooked that Cartwright has a massive engine. He made the third most tackles in the team last year even after playing out of position at 5/8th and chasing faster players. His defence is fine when he is in the right position. I remember Trent Waterhouse playing in the centres for Australia after a centre was injured and he was like a turnstile as players run around him, yet he was a good defender. Anyway, Yeo, Cartwright and CNH would be a formidable combination that can play 80 minutes freeing the bench up for forwards. CNH can play in the centres if needed as can YEO. Cartwright can fill in the halves if they are injured or if Moylan is needed to replace the fullback. That is a lot of flexibility. Add to that, Cartwright brings ball playing skills that Yeo and CNH just don't have and suddenly our attacking options open up.

In my view, that is a forward pack that can win a premiership.

That sounds about perfect. Really good combination.

 

[franklin2323]

How is this an argument? Carty isn't a half. He's a ball playing second rower. Does it matter beyond that. He will compliment our halves and fullback if given a simple role as a back rower or lock when back. Last year he didn't throw intercepts. This year he did a couple.

Most people here aren't saying he is a half. He was a fill in and wasn't that bad a point that seems to be lost

 

[franklin2323]

Hey, that coach is going to be extended for 2 years! Franklin must be out dancing in the streets at the news....

who else would be our coach if not him? I wouldn't re-sign him until the off season personally but it isn't like there is a quality coach in waiting

 

[franklin2323]

He could learn to pick his moments better with our current halves controlling things surely.

He shouldn't need to throw cutouts if he is used better

 

[franklin2323]

Because it's a rubbish excuse made up after the fact? How is an ankle injury less of a liability at fullback?

He missed the 1st month of the season so can't know that answer. Point is whether we agree or not the reason was given