Time to fight AFL (60 Minutes)

[LeagueXIII]

Priceless quote from Andrew Demetriou-

"Last time I checked Peter we were #1"

Maybe in Victoria as it seemed Peter didn't recognise the fact otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question.

Gallop looked like a rabbit in spotlight when asked about the future of RL. Typical muppet who can run an orginisation into the ground neck deep and absalouteley F*** it.

Aside from Auskick it looks like MUM's the word for the increasing juniors. Your media declared WAR remember.

Not our media mate.

 

[8Ball]

I just saw that 60 Minutes 'story'. What an arrogant, biased crock of sh*t. And that 'story' is just that, a story. An aussies rules fantasy. Clearly that aussie rules knob who went to the Storm game is a product of that 'scientific' and 'intelligent' code - he counted 12 'gorillas' playing against another 12 'gorillas' ... there is 13 players per team, arsehole. I can only assume he counted to 10 using his fingers, but struggled beyond that. And before anyone defending him can say 'maybe there was a player per team in the sin-bin', I can assure you there wasn't. That was the Storm vs. Knights game from only 2 weeks ago.

Ch9 and aussie rules can go f**k themselves ... and I'm sure they will do so happily.

I feel I should state here that I used to like aussie rules when I was a kid, then out-grew it and got bored of it in the mid-90's. I didn't actually hate it for another few years when all their arrogant attitude and people became apparent to me. Now I detest it with an absolute passion.

Exactly how I feel. I didn't mind it so much back in the early/mid 90s, but I slowly grew out of it realizing league was the better product, but still had an eye on AFL. Used to have the TV on in the background when an AFL match was going. In the past 5 or so years, I went from mildly disliking it to absolutely f**king hating it for trying to kill the code I love, and their unbelievable arrogance towards Sydney's perception of it.

 

[Knight87]

No doubt in my mind that was a paid advertisement for the AFL. For those who missed it the main bits were:

- Garry Jack's son choosing to play AFL (no mention of his other sons that play RL)
- the over the top gushings of a mum whose kid plays for the Maroubra Saints junior AFL team who are allegedly the fastest growing sports team in OZ
- Mark Geyer putting the boot into RL saying AFL are taking over and that RL is struggling
- how a sub 30k crowd at the SCG for the Swans guarantees a 2nd or 3rd Sydney AFL team will be a huge success
- (the most shameless part) they drag some alleged AFL legend to a Melbourne Storm game who proceeds to say RL is boring and full of gorillas, followed by a shot of Israel Folau taking a hit up.
- AFL CEO looking being his smug self. David Gallop has one sentence in the whole ad.

Man, am I very thankful I studied "Frontline" (the ABC tv show back in the mid-90s) back in High School. Anyone who hasn't seen or watched any of the "Frontline" episodes, I highly recommend it.

Although it was a satire on journalistic ethics and standards 'behind the scenes' (with a strong focus on the commerical tv stations Ch7 and Ch9), who would've thought that all the shoddy tactics, manipulation, misrepresentation of the truth etc. that were by conveyed by Rob Sitch et al. 13 years ago would be used in real life by the media today. One only has to look at Today Tonight/ACA or the "What have we learnt from Current Affairs this week" segment on The Chaser to know what I'm talking about.

ucantseeme, everything you listed in those dot points is pure 100% accurate of what I said above. Completely 100% misrepresentation of the truth (reminds me a lot of the episode "The Siege" on Frontline). You mentioned about how although Keiran Jack plays AFL, there was no mention of the other two Jack sons that play Rugby League. Also, Andrew Demetriou's (AFL CEO) long rant vs David Gallops 1-2 sentences. Also, having an absolute dimwit (Billy Brownless) who knows nothing about the rules of Rugby League (eg "there were 12 gorillas on the field") made to look like he was offering the 'expert opinion' on League. Man, I could go on and on. There was just so many unethical journalistic techniques applied to that documentary, you it'd make the the reporters at ACA/Today Tonight look like saints.

But, what makes this most appauling is what Ch9 has done. It just doesn't make sense that for the sport you broadcast (NRL), that gives you record tv ratings (aka S.O.O 1 last week) and millions of dollars in revenue each year, you turn around and treat it like a used piece of toilet paper. As someone has correctly said earlier, Ch7/10 would NEVER DO THIS IN A MILLION YEARS TO AFL! Furthermore, at the same time, Ch9 gives AFL an extra Footy Show (on Monday Nights), live exposure (via 9HD) of their shows into NSW and QLD and promotes it a heck of a lot more: all of this for a product which they don't have the rights to; again, it doesn't make sense.

I know ppl are going to say: Oh, well, AFL is popular in the Southern States. Yes, it is, but THATS NOT THE POINT! The point is that they're doing all of this for a product they don't have the rights to, whereas the product which they do have the rights to, which has saved their butt many times over the years and has given them many monetary and financial privileges over the years is left in the dark and made to look like its unclean.

Ch9 with AFL and NRL. They're two opposing sports in rival with each other. They cannot go on forever promoting both; further enhacing the 'conflict of interest'. They need to give one the flick, and the other, they need to stick with. The one they need to stick with (from a tv point of view) is the one that's giving it millions in return: the NRL. The AFL part has got to go though. It's still an absolute disgrace that ppl can still applaud the disgraceful, misogynistic, foul, vile and disgusting acts that Sam Newman keeps dishing, week in week out, and yet, nothing is done about this (supposedly in the name of entertainment. For any proof, there are many videos on youtube around which show Sam implementing these characteristics). That's the one area where I do applaud the NRL: Despite the many faults that may exist with the NRL Footy Show, one thing I am proud about this is that they haven't gone down this path and stooped so low to promote this sort of behaviour. AFL has promoted the mistreatment of women far more than the NRL. The players even have had so much problems with this to the point where Eddie McGuire (he's another one I'd like to get into a long rant on, but I'll have to refrain from that), at the beginning of this year, asked for all AFL players to undergo a mandatory seminar, in regards to 'dealing with women'. ROFL! What a joke. And to think that AFL membership monies go towards funding this thing???? I'd be very filthy if I was one of them with a membership.

And yes, I do agree with what Nuke said earlier, about the arrogance and unfriendliness of the majority of AFL supporters. I have constantly and frequently been subject to this from back in high school. Just because they don't like your sport, they feel the need to do things that are completely uncalled for. Their spin on media events, is disgusting to say the least. You have players nicknamed 'The King' who grope women, get intro drunken brawls, frequently cheat on their wife, abuse their defactos, glassing them with wine glasses and then cries for sympathy, that he grew up in a broken home and had an alcoholic father???? And the AFL supporters all bow in sympathy, "Oh. You poor little thing"?????

You have players who are nicknamed "God" (talk about blasphemous), but yet are unable to hide the 'evil side' of them', resulting in other ppl dying of overdoses of heroin as a result of their actions? Just as his sons start to become successful, has to constantly pop up as a media whore time and time again, all of this whilst the sons have to bear the burden of their father's wreckless, "I am greater than God", "AFL arrogance" actions?

And then you have players nicknamed "Big Bad Barry", who think they're above the rules of the game, think they can deliberately cause grevious bodily harm to their opponents, elbow and king hit players in the face, knowing they can get away with it, because 'due to conflict of interest', they play for a club in a non-AFL area, which the AFL so desperately want them to succeed (against the NRL) to the point where they not only get a love tap (ie few week suspension), but the teams get massive salary cap concessions over the other clubs??? Talk about playing a comp on a 'level playing field'? You gotta be kidding.

All of this, whilst they're all made out to be St Peter in the media. "Oh, he was such a lovely player, both on and off the field". "He was sooooo innocent, couldn't even hurt a fly". He always played fair on the field, and won the Brownnose medal". Well, if only they realised that 'oil and water don't mix together', they would've woken up from the "Mr so and so is like St Peter" dream a long time ago.

the list goes on and on......

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Great post mate. There are definitely some large conflicts of interest in Channel 9 at the moment that can only persist for so long.

 

[Father Jack]

You've visited here a couple of times iirc, every single time you've run away crying to the tards on BF because you couldn't face facts.

:lol: Define "fine".

:lol:

So what would you call the tens of millions they've thrown at Sydney and Brisbane only to have 4 figure audiences tune in to AFL matches in those cities? More people watch the NRL in Perth than that ffs.

There's your mistake.

BTW I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction because I have yet to see any market research that the AFL has done re: the GC or WS.

"facts" is a word that get used far too loosely around here, I don't get confronted with very many, so I certainly don't run because of it.

The GC team will be fine as in they will have enough support to operate, as for the AFL doing its research, well, I worked for the company that was doing some of the survey work, so rest assured it has occurred, just coz you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there. 4 figure audiences might happen in Sydney and maybe Brisbane for the games that are shown in the early hours, but as for more people watching league in Perth than the AFL in Brisbane, where do you get that from? Do they even show the Friday night game over there? Or is it simply the Sunday game against the Sunday game in Brisbane? Was it a one-off, or is it overall?

 

[gong_eagle]

Turf War


Sunday, May 25, 2008
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=567872
Reporter: Peter Overton
Producer: Damien Comerford and Nick Greenaway

It's war!
The Titans of Australian sport are at it hammer and tongs - fighting for new territory, new fans.
The first shots were fired by the AFL when the Swans invaded Sydney.
Then rugby league retaliated, sending the Storm troopers into Melbourne.
Mere skirmishes. Now it's getting serious.
Aussie Rules has its sights on the rugby league heartland, launching new teams in western Sydney and on the Gold Coast.
And the stakes are astronomical with millions and millions of dollars in revenue up for grabs.
So, stand by for the mother of all battles for the hearts, minds and pockets of Australian footy fans.
Full transcript

INTRODUCTION PETER OVERTON: It's war! The Titans of Australian sport are at it hammer and tongs fighting for new territory, new fans. The first shots were fired by the AFL when the Swans invaded Sydney. Then rugby league retaliated, sending the Storm troopers into Melbourne. Mere skirmishes. Now it's getting serious. Aussie Rules has its sights on the rugby league heartland, launching new teams in western Sydney and on the Gold Coast. And the stakes are astronomical with millions and millions of dollars in revenue up for grabs. So, stand by for the mother of all battles for the hearts, minds and pockets of Australian footy fans.
STORY PETER OVERTON: It's Saturday in the heart of rugby league country, but these kids are playing a very different game. This is the birthplace of teams like Sydney's famous Rabbitohs, but AFL is taking over. The Maroubra Saints is now one of the fastest-growing junior sporting clubs in the entire country.
MUM 1: Good boy, Johnny, go Johnny! PETER OVERTON: You guys really get into this, don't you?
MUM 1: Yeah, we love it. Look forward to it for the whole week.
PETER OVERTON: Aussie Rules is what mums like Tanya Oziel and Christine Foote want their kids to play.
MUM 1: We followed the Swans, we used to go to the games and he woke up one day and he said "Mum, I want to play AFL."
MUM 2: All kids have to make a choice. He's 12, just started high school. AFL or Rugby League? And he said "AFL all the way."
PETER OVERTON: Out in Western Sydney, rugby league stalwart Mark Geyer is seeing the AFL invasion first hand.
Aussie Rules is stealing kids away from his game at such a rate he fears for the future.
MARK GEYER: They're coming to get us and if we don't show some sort of resistance before you and I know it they'll take over.
PETER OVERTON: You use words like 'missile', 'infiltrate', you speak like its a war ?
MARK GEYER: Well that's the mentality we've got to have. I regard AFL as a very slow-moving Tsunami coming to engulf rugby league.
PETER OVERTON: It may start with the kids but this is where the real war is being fought. Hundreds of millions of dollars is at stake in sponsorship and television rights. And in this bitter fight for the hearts and minds of Australia's sporting public, traditional loyalties are being tested and old allegiances broken.
COMMENTATOR: We are under way now, and Sydney will take it away...
PETER OVERTON: I would never imagine seeing you at an AFL game on a Sunday afternoon?
GARRY JACK: No Mate. If you'd told me 20 years ago, I would've thought you were joking. But ah, yeah, I'm here most weeks when they play at the SCG.
PETER OVERTON: If you needed proof of the new football landscape, just take a look at the Jack family.
COMMENTATOR: Jack to the line! Jack will score.... Jack giving chase, and Jack's got him.
PETER OVERTON: Garry Jack is a rugby league legend. So, the hill used to be over there, didn't it?
GARRY JACK: That's it. Right over there.
PETER OVERTON: But today, he's at the SCG to watch his son Kieren - a rising star for the Sydney Swans.
COMMENTATOR: Jack can play on, Sydney's first for the quarter and the crowd come alive. Kieren JACK: I came across this game of AFL, that was so free flowing and I just enjoyed so much, for me, the decision was pretty easy in the end because I was just loving it.
PETER OVERTON: What was it like for you when Kieren said - "I want to play Australian rules"?
GARRY JACK: He didn't actually say that... He sort of said "How would you feel, dad, if I didn't play league next year I just played Aussie rules? How would you feel? And I said... Kieren JACK: Tell the truth.
GARRY JACK: I said... "OK", I said "OK, if you want to" I didn't blow up, did I?
Did I blow up? Kieren JACK: Oh, I can't remember.
PETER OVERTON: I think that was a "Yes"
GARRY JACK: No, no, no. I said, "If you want to you can." But I thought he'd just play it for a year and come back to league. Bad judge, aren't I?
COMMENTATOR: He lines it up from 45... he needs it to hold its line, it does!
PETER OVERTON: The name of the game is to get bums on seats and the Sydney Swans are pretty good at it now. It's taken them 25 years but today's crowd is just under 30,000. About average for a home game at the SCG and enough to make a rugby league administrator very envious. It's little wonder, then, that the AFL is pushing so hard for a second Sydney team as well as a new one on the Gold Coast.
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: I think what we want for our code is to make sure that, in the two fastest-growing markets in this country, the Gold Coast and western Sydney, that AFL football has a presence there.
PETER OVERTON: So it's a fight against the NRL?
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: They're your words Peter, they're not mine. We've been talking about this for the best part of 4 or 5 years.
PETER OVERTON: If this is war, Andrew Demetriou is the AFL's Commander-in-Chief. Andrew, is this about greed, empire building? The AFL will do whatever it takes no matter the cost?
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: I don't think it's anything to do with greed. It is about growing our code and we will do what we have to do to support our investment.
PETER OVERTON: But the reality is you want to be number one.
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: I think we already are, Peter, last time I checked.
COMMENTATOR: Thurston chips over the top and ... what a moment!
PETER OVERTON: Facing off against Demetriou is league boss David Gallop. In its centenary year, rugby league's taking some big hits - clubs in financial crisis, stagnant crowds - but Gallop is standing his ground. Are you saying to the AFL - "Come and try and get our turf but do so your peril?"
DAVID GALLOP: You're coming into our territory there's no doubt about that. The numbers reflect that we dominate. We'll continue to put our foot on the pedal and good luck to you coming into our territory.
PETER OVERTON: The NRL is fighting back. Shoring up its turf in Queensland with the new Gold Coast Titans. But in traditional AFL territory the going is a lot tougher. Melbourne Storm came to Victoria 11 years ago and has won two premierships. So what is your basic interpretation of rugby league rules?
BILLY BROWNLESS: Ah, 12 gorillas this side 12 gorillas that side they run at each other. And whoever is the biggest gorilla gets the bananas.
PETER OVERTON: But, according to AFL legend Billy Brownless, league will never be more than a novelty here.
BILLY BROWNLESS: There's no science, not a lot of Pythagoras's theorem or anything to it, not a lot of science. You just get it and run and crash.
PETER OVERTON: Are you saying that AFL is full of science?
BILLY BROWNLESS: Yes! A lot more intelligent. A lot more exciting to watch.
PETER OVERTON: We've only been here five minutes.
BILLY BROWNLESS: We've been here 20 minutes and the score is 0-0. It's a bit like soccer.
MATT GEYER: My name is Matt Geyer, I've been here for 11 years. I'm one of the old guys as you can see.
PETER OVERTON: It is this entrenched prejudice that has convinced the NRL the best way to win converts is at the grass roots.
MATT GEYER: (To group of kids) Do you want to learn how to do that?
KIDS REPLY: Yes!!
PETER OVERTON: What do you know about rugby league.
BOY 1: I know it can be a rough game.
BOY 2: I know Matt Geyer debuted 1997, played for 11 years, retiring this year.
PETER OVERTON: How do you know all that?
BOY 2: Just do.
PETER OVERTON: Would you like to play rugby league?
BOY 2: Yeah.
PETER OVERTON: So what team will you guys be following in rugby league?
ALL KIDS IN UNISON: The Melbourne Storm.
PETER OVERTON: It's what the AFL has been doing for years. Ever since the Swans came to Sydney 25 years ago, they've been doing the hard sell to kids. It's how they won over converts like Kieren Jack.
PETER OVERTON: This is a rugby league house, if I've ever seen one.
GARRY JACK: Yes, Peter, certainly plenty of photos and history here from obviously my career and the boys as as they're getting older.
PETER OVERTON: As one of the greats of the game, Kieren's dad Garry fully expected his boy to follow in his rugby-league footsteps. Was Kieren a good league player?
GARRY JACK: Oh yeah, he was a very good league player. He was a good half back, or five eighth. I coached him when he was 14. I was the last one to coach him before he swapped over to Aussie rules. But, besides that, he would have been a very good league player if he had stuck with it.
PETER OVERTON: Your voice sort of softened when you spoke about that.
GARRY JACK: Oh, it's close to my heart isn't it. It was a sad day when we lost him.
LEWIS ROBERTS THOMSON: You've got to get your middle finger on both sides of the ball running through the grooves.
PETER OVERTON: You go first, I don't want to embarrass you. Kieren's not the only promising youngster being won over by Aussie rules. So fingers down there?
LEWIS ROBERTS THOMSON: Try and get the ball, probably, pointing up and down a bit...
PETER OVERTON: The Swans have also snared rugby union blue-blood Lewis Roberts Thomson and Paul Bevan, who like Kieren, came from a legendary league family.
LEWIS ROBERTS THOMSON: Hey, sign him up! PETER OVERTON: I'm just wondering if you're playing AFL so you don't get a face like your Dads?
LEWIS ROBERTS THOMSON: Well yeah, that's one of the reasons, yeah. Yeah, he's busted his nose a few times and his face is looking a bit bad now. But you know, that's just part of the game. You know he won't be happy that I said that, actually.
MARK GEYER: When I grew up round here they called it 'the Bronx'. It was such a hard area, and rugby league was it. I never thought I'd see the day where I'd see an AFL poster out this way it's happening on a very constant basis. Every time you look around, there's more posters going up.
PETER OVERTON: If anyone knows how successful the AFL has been in poaching kids, it's legendary hard man, Mark Geyer. He now coaches a junior league team in Sydney's west and he is constantly losing youngsters to the other code. They even tried to sign up his own son.
MARK GEYER: Go mate! Yes, good try. The AFL at the moment are like a large octopus with their tentacles everywhere. The NRL are like a little goldfish trying to swim against the tide. I think we've got to turn into a shark and start devouring this octopus.
PETER OVERTON: But the AFL octopus will take some stopping. Its Gold Coast team kicks off in 2011 and the Western Sydney team the following year. And that's only the beginning. Is a third Sydney team a possibility?
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: Who knows? It's the largest population in the country. In 50 years why would you rule that out? Who knows if we'll have a team based out of Australia?
PETER OVERTON: So is that a little bit of a 'yes'?
ANDREW DEMETRIOU: I don't know. I just don't know. All I'll say is you can never say never.
PETER OVERTON: Do you admit you've got a fight on your hands?
DAVID GALLOP: Yes, but it's not a fight that's particularly new.
PETER OVERTON: Who's got the best troops?
DAVID GALLOP: I certainly believe we do. We are going well in our 100th year, and we'll be going well in 100 years from now.
PETER OVERTON: But try telling that to the mums from the Maroubra Saints. From where they stand there's no question about what game is the winner.
MUM 1: It's a very family orientated game. It's geared to the kids. Everything's about the children.
PETER OVERTON: So you see it as the national sport?
MUM 1: Oh God, yeah. It's as Australian as Vegemite and I think our kids should be growing up on it. It's brilliant.

 

[Patorick]

Typical 60 minutes.

What were you guys doing watching it anyway?

 

[bobmar28]

If you want to leave a comment in Peter Harvey's mailbag here is the link.

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/feedback.aspx?sectionid=5562&sectionname=contactus&formid=2363

Done.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

The GC team will be fine as in they will have enough support to operate,

Care to back that up with any facts?

as for the AFL doing its research, well, I worked for the company that was doing some of the survey work,

:roll: Sure you did champ. If you actually did some of the research I'm sure you'd be able top easily point us in the right direction for the results.

so rest assured it has occurred, just coz you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there.

I'm sure if the results were anywhere near positive then the summary would be on AFL.com asap.

4 figure audiences might happen in Sydney and maybe Brisbane for the games that are shown in the early hours,

You've seen the TV ratings threads in TFC, you know that's not the case.

but as for more people watching league in Perth than the AFL in Brisbane, where do you get that from? Do they even show the Friday night game over there? Or is it simply the Sunday game against the Sunday game in Brisbane? Was it a one-off, or is it overall?

As above. You've seen these numbers too.

 

[Brutus]

Thanks Nein

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I worked for the company that was doing some of the survey work

Sweeney?

:lol:

 

[bobmar28]

I dont disagree with you, I think the AFL have gone way too far in helping Sydney and Brisbane. But put that aside, they are still going great and is clearly becoming more popular in NSW and QLD.

Becoming more popular? Swans crowds are down this year, league crowds are heading for an all time record.

 

[taipan]

Suggest you e-mail ch9 Harveys mailbag,and register your feelings, civily of course.I have done so.That is the most blatant pro AFL,anti rugby league story/article I have either listened to or read,more so coming from the TV channel that supposedly has the rugby league contract. You could even detest Gallop was p*ssed off with the interview.
In the centenary of the game,I have never seen so much anti rl propaganda thrown around.Ch9 does little for the game (eg the after midnight showing of the game in melbourne on Fridays).Contrast this with the over the top promotion Ch10 and to a lesser extent 7 do on AFL.
And getting Billy Brownlees to give his critique on rugby league is as reliable as asking Osama Bin Laden to give his views on western civilisation.

 

[bobmar28]

thats true for me too....at some points i thought i was watching an afl plug. But I have added more insight here for our fight, and I hope you'd like to read it too, cheezel.

Despite what was said though, none of it was not true - I think rather it was just made to look a more dire fight for rugby league by leaving plenty of cannon flak from league's side out. This just happened to make it a better story for most people. except us.

- I will say this about rugby leagues fight. On image, it will lose with the current set up. And image is a massive thing that can dominate perceptions. Its the first thing us humans look at when sizing something up.

RL does not consider the individual when it comes to image. Whats better for a person in terms of game-day experience? Sitting in a crowd at a modern facility with some 40,000 people adding to the atmosphere? Or sitting in a ground thats fairly old with between 10,000 and 17,000 people?

The former. Its much more exciting and inspiring. Thats AFL's image. Its more impressive and attractive. 12k at manly at an old feild is not impressive and does nothing to make the game attractive - sorry - to people. It serves only to steer people away, apart from the very core, more die-hard fans.

It doesnt matter that 9 sydney teams get 80,000 people over 4 games against afl's 35,000 at one...because people forget that its the individual's experience not the cumulative experience that matters....let me explain further: its a case of "I attended a match with 40,000 other people today." against "I attended a match with 14,000 people today." Everyone on this forum points to the cumulative today as the strength of the game....but when you forget that its individuals that matter, and the individual only thinks like above and is impressed by such....he does not think "I attended a match with 14,000 other people, and thats great, but the greatest thing is the cumulative attendance of rl in this town, it was 76,492 across 5 games." You see, he only takes that 14,000 other people experience, and thats his reality, thats what he sells to other people, thats what he feels....he doesnt feel the other 76,491 people as well. He can only be at one game at once.

He does not think like that. What happens at other games is not his concern when he is at a game with a bad atmosphere/poor facilities/lower crowd and less than what would be experienced elsewhere in another game (if he were comparing both over time and deciding which one he would rather attend more).

thats league's problem with image in general. It can't win at the moment with that. It needs to have games with 30-40,000 people attending. No matter the argument you present, you can't get past that, because otherwise league ISN'T winning or is not effective enough.

Also, the perception that league is more tough on bodies and junior football. Maybe league has a harder sell in this part, but thats all it needs to be: a tougher sell. Its easier for afl to sell its junior footy (and soccer too), as they seem less violent. I dont know if figures were doctored in a recent survey that showed league juniors had less injuries than afl juniors, with afl shoulder and knee injuries being rampant at senior level and all the way down the code.

That is a battle that is harder to win, but is harder not impossible.

In many ways what people fail to appreciate along with all the love for 9 sydney teams, is that too many teams for sydney is too much for the game to take. Image is a huge motivator for parents and people.

What of the person who goes to a game with 40k in a modern facility versus a person who goes to a a game with 12k in the older facility? Who goes away praising the night more? What people fail to see is that word of mouth is a HUGE (and free) advert for a game, an experience, a product. Forget excitement levels just for now, as any game on a one-to-one basis can be unexpectedly exciting or particularly boring (no one knows which before the fact)...and focus on the game-day experience. The better the atmosphere and facilities and ease of attendance and cost, the better the time, and the more recommendations it will get....nothing hits home better in marketing than a personal recommendation from someone you know and trust.

This is a cumulative effect over years that takes place.

I dont care who has the bigger sport, this is more about potentials being reached, and per capita attendance; so at this stage one would have to say AFL has the better game to attend (whether you think afl is good or not) and league the second best (which lets face it, 2nd best at the moment, is losing completely).

So in some regards the 60 minutes story is a perfect reflection over the 20 mins it was on, of the landscape of nrl and afl in sydney.

I know it sounded like an AFL plug, thats because its hard not to plug the AFL at the moment.

***RL could more than ever benefit from a greater match day experience including better facilities, increased praise from word of mouth, more support for juniors in selling the game to the young.***

AFL is not going away. They may try and fail largely with the older generation, but every child they get to play for them is a win in the younger generation, and if its a scale of 100 million dollars for 10,000 kids, that seems ok by them, its something to grow on. Those kids will grow and use word of mouth and actions to grow and establish traditions of afl in sydney.

To me, RL is diminishing, and AFL growing, and the 60 minutes story reflected that strongly. And its just and fair. No probs for me to accept.

Now I have accepted it, i realize more and more that rl needs to get all the things i listed between the *** asterix *** above in full swing. To achieve that end it needs to somehow: reduce teams to ensure greater resources and a wider reach in nsw/other states, move to vastly improved facilities either by building or upgrading or simply moving, and sell the game once more to children with a harder more effective sell. Teams need to average 30k within 10 years just to survive and increase sponsors and members; sponsors by about 2 fold at least and members 10 fold in many cases, and this coupled with a sydney team reduction may well starve off the effects of AFL.

They need to move on this now. As the leagues club funding dries up, the position becomes weaker and weaker for the nrl.

In a nutshell, consolidate sydney, focus on the individual not the cumulative fan base.

Too long to read, sorry.

 

[russ13]

STORY PETER OVERTON: It's Saturday in the heart of rugby league country, but these kids are playing a very different game. This is the birthplace of teams like Sydney's famous Rabbitohs, but AFL is taking over. The Maroubra Saints is now one of the fastest-growing junior sporting clubs in the entire country.
MUM 1: Good boy, Johnny, go Johnny! PETER OVERTON: You guys really get into this, don't you?
MUM 1: Yeah, we love it. Look forward to it for the whole week.
PETER OVERTON: Aussie Rules is what mums like Tanya Oziel and Christine Foote want their kids to play.
MUM 1: We followed the Swans, we used to go to the games and he woke up one day and he said "Mum, I want to play AFL."
MUM 2: All kids have to make a choice. He's 12, just started high school. AFL or Rugby League? And he said "AFL all the way."
PETER OVERTON: Out in Western Sydney, rugby league stalwart Mark Geyer is seeing the AFL invasion first hand.
Aussie Rules is stealing kids away from his game at such a rate he fears for the future.
MARK GEYER: They're coming to get us and if we don't show some sort of resistance before you and I know it they'll take over.
PETER OVERTON: You use words like 'missile', 'infiltrate', you speak like its a war ?
MARK GEYER: Well that's the mentality we've got to have. I regard AFL as a very slow-moving Tsunami coming to engulf rugby league.
PETER OVERTON: It may start with the kids but this is where the real war is being fought. Hundreds of millions of dollars is at stake in sponsorship and television rights. And in this bitter fight for the hearts and minds of Australia's sporting public, traditional loyalties are being tested and old allegiances broken.
COMMENTATOR: We are under way now, and Sydney will take it away...

Some one said earlier Penrith JRL has 39 teams in the Under 10 division.

Well have a look at what the Penrith JAFL club has got.

http://www.penrithswans.com.au/

2 Under 10s
1 Under 11
1 Under 12
1 Under 12
1 Under 14
1 Under 16

7 junior teams FFS.

BTW junior AFL isn't played with a full complement of 18 players - sometimes it is half that number depending on the age group. I would be surprised if that club had more than 100 juniors.


Maroubra Saints
http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_i...task=DETAIL&articleID=5266745&sectionID=56417

U/10’s: Maroubra Black 0.1.01 vs Newtown 4.6.30.
U/10’s: Maroubra Red 8.11.59 vs Concord 3.3.21.
U/11’s: Maroubra 14.16.100 vs Newtown 5.6.36. (Mercy Rule applied – 14.12.96 to 5.6.36.)
U/12’s: Maroubra 27.10.172 vs Concord 8.4.52. (Mercy Rule applied – 9.6.60 to 0.0.00.)
U/13’s: Maroubra 7.9.51 vs Newtown 6.4.40
U/15's: Maroubra Saints – 154 vs Pittwater Tigers – 6

What they say they got:

http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_info.cgi?c=1-4015-49856-0-0
...Hey kids - welcome to THE best footy clubs in Greater Sydney - The Maroubra Saints. With almost 300 children now part of our close Saints family, our home-ground in based at Heffron Park in Maroubra. We also boast 4 Premiership Teams in the last 3 years and encourage all kids to come and have a go and bring along your friends & family as well.

How can a club with just 6 teams be the fastest growing club in the country?:lol:

 

[Shorty]

The GC team will be fine as in they will have enough support to operate

I'm aware that the GC has a fairly strong following of the AFL but surely selling like 8000 seats(mostly free tickets) to a game is a warning?
And the weather wasn't as much as a factor as people make it out to be - Earlier during the week as little as 1000 tickets had been sold...

The GC is a League city,the crowds and success of the Titans should tell you that much.
The AFL is going to fall on it's *ss but the AFL and it's fans in general need it.

 

[Azkatro]

The only way Australian Rules could ever work on the Gold Coast in my opinion is if half of Melbourne moved there, which will never happen.

Western Sydney, however, is by and large a much more gullible and hence easily fooled populace than that of Queensland. Many in the area will swallow the AFL's positive media tripe and we're talking a good what.. 2.5mil odd people?

 

[ucantseeme]

PETER OVERTON: But the AFL octopus will take some stopping. Its Gold Coast team kicks off in 2011 and the Western Sydney team the following year. And that's only the beginning. Is a third Sydney team a possibility?

ANDREW DEMETRIOU: Who knows? It's the largest population in the country. In 50 years why would you rule that out? Who knows if we'll have a team based out of Australia?

You can knock the guy for arrogance and such, but I will credit these AFL stooges for putting a positive spin on everything. I was watching The Offsiders on Sunday morning and the State of Origin discussion mostly related to the fact is wasn't a sellout. 67,000? Where's the rest?

 

[Father Jack]

I'm aware that the GC has a fairly strong following of the AFL but surely selling like 8000 seats(mostly free tickets) to a game is a warning?
And the weather wasn't as much as a factor as people make it out to be - Earlier during the week as little as 1000 tickets had been sold...

The GC is a League city,the crowds and success of the Titans should tell you that much.
The AFL is going to fall on it's *ss but the AFL and it's fans in general need it.

I'd like to see proof of these free tickets. I would rather liked one, I think.

I didn't prebuy a ticket either as there was obviously no need to, and the deluge that occurred just prior to the start would have stopped a lot of walk-ups. A poor crowd nonetheless, but I wouldn't read too much into it. It is different when you have an actual team to promote to the city.

As for the market research, of course the AFL isn't necessarily going to release to all and sundry that which they have paid for, and I didn't see the final product, was just involved in some of the legwork, is all.

 

[Sir Biffo]

Hahaha so according to sportingpulse, the Maroubra Saints have 6 teams, and 300 kids as part of the family!

Do they count siblings, double count if you play in the under 10's and stay to watch the under 15's (which looks like a really strong comp, the mighty Saints winning by 148 points last week - the Pittwater Tigers were unlucky to only score 6 points in the entire game).

But looking at the clientele of mothers which were at the Maroubra Saints game on 60 minutes, each mother with only one playing son would have at leasy seven or eight non playing siblings. The only problem for their 300 strong family is that it would vary by significantly depending on which one of her former partners has access rights that week.