Time To Stop The Mind Game Changes Supercoach

[Karmawave]

This has been a lively thread overnight! :lol:


Chipping in once more, I don't believe it is a simple case of black and white with Smith. It is just not his SELECTION of one player over another. It goes way deeper than that.

It has been positional/role changes as well.

Constant position and roles changing of individuals within the team.

* One day Houston is playing second row, the next he is on the bench, the next he plays lock. He is a " genuine " 80 minute player one week, the next week he is our 5/8. Sheesh one week he was named on the wing :lol:

* One minute our halfback is a bench player, the next he is in reserve grade, the next he is The Messiah playing a full 80 minutes again. One month Bailey is better than him, the next month Bailey isn't.

* One week Hilder is back up hooker, the next he is an 80 minute lock forward, the next he is a bench player.

* One week Steve Simpson is a front row forward playing 40 minutes, the next he is playing in the backrow 80 minutes, sometimes still playing only 50 minutes, with no consistent role.

* All year Wes Naiqama plays centre, fills in at fullback, and now is expected to get used to defending on the wing again in a must win game.

* Cooper Vuna is one minute a power game winger, then an outcast and 18th man, then a centre, as well as being a bench player sometime in between.

* Jarrod Mullen starts the year at 6, moves to 7, moves back to 6, and during it takes on the role of 7 and 6 all at the same time while directing 7 forwards around the paddock and being the sole halfback/5'8 combined.

* Our front row rotation - well where to start. One minute they start, the next they are benched, the next they are dropped. It is certainly a long way from having a set combination rotation.

The only successful role playing switch has been Kurt Gidley, and he can do so because of his freakish fitness levels and style of player he is.

So lets overlook the straight up selection farces as Player X instead of Player Y.

Let's look at the constant tweaking of combinations. The refusal to allow a 17 to form a combination, build team morale, and stick to it. That's what I'm getting at.

The reliance on all this utility crap is a joke. And it's only going to get worse with the return of another utility player in Bailey.

I feel for the players, I really do, not knowing one week to the next what is expected of them.

The player I feel most for is actually Scott Dureau, who I believe is getting the sh*ttest deal of the lot of them. He is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

 

[Serc]

Wicks got shown up on Sunday. But I'm not convinced White wouldn't have been as well.

They all were...and yes of course that would've included White as well had he been there.

Looking at most of this season, I'd say we all agree that any of our fringe FG forwards deserve a run over Wicks currently, and that also includes any surplus forwards when we are at full strength.

And not a bad post either just above me Karma :crazy:

 

[Yosh]

Yeah I'm not a fan of making selection changes and tactical changes (for example how he moved McManus to the other wing) to face an opponent. I think we put on our best side, put our best foot forward and dont fear the enemy. Basically by doing some of the changes he made last week I think alot of confidence would of been dropped by the players... He basically told Uate you are not good enough to mark JMonas so go to the other side. Or White, no matter how well you play your only a fill in gap player... You know what I mean? Dented confidence is also a big part of a game... I still believe if we had run out with the side that had run out the previous 3 weeks we would of won that game convincingly... Jeez though I am so cut by that loss, probably hurts 2nd most to that cowboys game where Bowen chip chased in the dying minutes to win the game...

 

[Jobdog]

I can't believe it, but I'm actually going to agree 100% with what Karma has just said :shock:

But I will say this, we blew up when Hages named the same 17, but when there are changes from Smithy we also blow up. Seems any coach can't win ;-)

 

[perverse]

I can't believe it, but I'm actually going to agree 100% with what Karma has just said :shock:

he does have his moments.

i agree too karma, while i don't share your apparent hatred for the man you call supercoach, i will say that he does tend to overplay his hand and force changes that arn't always warranted. overall i'm stoked with what smith has done with our club in such a short space of time.. however at the end of the day he will live by the sword and die by the sword. his results next year with the team he has constructed and has had time to mould will speak for themselves.

 

[Hanscholo]

The team we have now wont resemble in a lot of respects the one we have in two years time. In order to get there you need to try things. In saying that i wouldnt have considered leaving dropping white, he has been our best front rower.

 

[roopy]

I don't have a problem with Smith giving players different roles and working on their skills.
Who would have guessed Jesse had an offload?
Who knew Kidley was a natural 'rover'?
Who Knew Hilder was a hooker?

Hages got players to work on doing exactly the same things week after week, but i think the more skills our guys have the better.

Trent Robinson has done the same in NYC - some guys have played 5 positions (Hurrell has been 5/8, half, lock, hooker, second row - Paulson has been fullback, winger, half, 5/8 - Brown has been hooker, half, 5/8 etc etc etc)

Hopefully we will eventually come up with our best combination early next season and string together 20 wins or so - but exploring the potential of our guys is a good thing.

 

[perverse]

Hopefully we will eventually come up with our best combination early next season and string together 20 wins or so - but exploring the potential of our guys is a good thing.

lol, christ, i wish i could be THAT optimistic. one of your best roops.

 

[Joker's Wild]

(for example how he moved McManus to the other wing) to face an opponent.

Off topic:

Um.... did I miss something or did Jimmy Mac play on the right against Canberra? He always plays on the right.

 

[Serc]

I think he was on the left...which means yes Smithy swapped him around

 

[antonius]

I bag your opinion because you come on here and carry on as if everything you think or say is right, and if someone disagrees with you then they're an idiot.

That's where the problem starts.

You'll tear down any player you don't like as long as it suits you, and talk up your favourites like they're Gods.

LoL I don't recall calling anyone an idiot

 

[Johns Magic]

anyone who rates Wicks over White at this stage and given our predicament re finals has rocks in their head

if you rate Wicks above him then you don't know what you're on about

JM, you are dead set kidding if you believe that

 

[doggone]

Gee one loss and your all head hunting. Hope it turns around this week. kNIGHTS ONE BAD GAME AGAINST IN FORM TEAM?? and boy oh boy the whinging. Come on give it a break

 

[Apey]

Gee one loss and your all head hunting. Hope it turns around this week. kNIGHTS ONE BAD GAME AGAINST IN FORM TEAM?? and boy oh boy the whinging. Come on give it a break

I think a lot of us could have handled a loss if we gave it our best effort. However, back to reality, we served up tripe with our season on the line.

 

[K-Man]

It's only fair to say that on this occassion Karma I am also in 100% agreement with you.

Would love to see Smith pick 17 players he feels can get the job done, and pick that side every week for 2 months (only making changes due to injury)..... and see how it goes.

 

[BG]

I don't believe it is a simple case of black and white with Smith. It is just not his SELECTION of one player over another. It goes way deeper than that. It has been positional/role changes as well. Constant position and roles changing of individuals within the team.

Smith has always done it. We should expect nothing else. It has proven extremely effective over the course of his career--except for netting him a premiership of course. But that's irrelevant as he tends to go with stability once the finals come round, and the teams that lost grand finals were close to the teams that won semi/prelim-finals.

One day Houston is playing second row, the next he is on the bench, the next he plays lock. He is a "genuine" 80 minute player one week, the next week he is our 5/8. Sheesh one week he was named on the wing

Come off it regarding the wing. When Houston has been named at 5/8 or wing it has been when Gids has played a dual role. Who cares what's on the team sheet? Houston has played as a seventh forward in those games. Also, bear in mind how youthful and inexperienced much of the team is. Until half-way through last year Houston was a prop. A lot of our players, like the structure of the team, are works in progress. While the goal will have been--and remains while there’s the faintest hope--to win the comp, realistically it was always going to be a re-building season.

One minute our halfback is a bench player, the next he is in reserve grade, the next he is The Messiah playing a full 80 minutes again. One month Bailey is better than him, the next month Bailey isn't.

Smith said at the start of the season that Dureau wasn't ready to play 26 straight games of NRL. The team obviously does plenty of training with Mullo in 6 or 7 and with Bailey, Dureau or Gids filling the other role. I don't believe Smith has tinkered for the sake of it in the halves. He obviously doesn't think Bailey is the complete package as a 5/8th or we would have retained him. Dureau is a work in progress.

One week Hilder is back up hooker, the next he is an 80 minute lock forward, the next he is a bench player

He was always bought for this purpose. He’s a utility. What did you expect? Imho he has been used perfectly. He has been out of touch since returning from injury, but his form for most of the season has demanded his inclusion in the team. How much he plays at hooker and how much he plays in the backrow simply depends on whether Beds is in the team and how many minutes relief he needs in a game to manage his chronic injuries.

One week Steve Simpson is a front row forward playing 40 minutes, the next he is playing in the backrow 80 minutes, sometimes still playing only 50 minutes, with no consistent role.

He has been one of our most consistent performers in all those roles.

All year Wes Naiqama plays centre, fills in at fullback, and now is expected to get used to defending on the wing again in a must win game

This one is blindingly obvious. Sau has really put his hand up while Wes has been out injured and Doogs has been in great form during the same period. This put Naiqama in competition with Vuna and Uate for a wing spot. Naiqama is the more experienced player and far better under the high ball and in defence than the other two. Hardly a surprising decision.

Cooper Vuna is one minute a power game winger, then an outcast and 18th man, then a centre, as well as being a bench player sometime in between

He has been a winger nearly all season. He was dropped for a lazy attitude to training and for missing some video sessions. He has publicly admitted he deserved his demotion, and Smith was quick to give him another chance after the wake-up call. Vuna has played once off the bench when we were forced to make some late changes due to injury. He played centre against the Raiders when both Doogs and Naiqama were unavailable. Our other options were Lulia, Little Doogs or McManus. The first two have hardly had sparkling seasons. Hard to shift McManus from the wing considering you and DMC are the only people who haven’t been impressed with the way he defuses bombs and chooses his moment in defence to come in and shut down the opposition.

Our front row rotation - well where to start. One minute they start, the next they are benched, the next they are dropped. It is certainly a long way from having a set combination rotation

Personally I don’t think whether a front rower starts or comes off the bench is that big a deal. Anyway it’s been far more stable than you suggest. Most of the variations have been forced by injury. Royal and Tolar have been starting props for much of the year, except when Cross has been fit and he has started as expected. Faaso and Wicks have been exclusively impact. Well, Wicks has been impact in theory :sarcasm:.

The reliance on all this utility crap is a joke. And it's only going to get worse with the return of another utility player in Bailey. I feel for the players, I really do, not knowing one week to the next what is expected of them.

The players may not particularly like it, but Smith has always done it and it’s been an exceptionally effective technique for getting a team to perform consistently throughout a regular season. This year isn’t going to be one of his highest ladder finishes. However, with a touch of luck in a couple of games or a fair draw where every club played each other twice we would be entrenched in the top 8. In any event, the team has gone a whole lot better than most people anticipated.

 

[Karmawave]

BG, appreciate the responses man, some valid points.

However, you should do a bit of research, and look back to the 2001 Parramatta Eels team. ( The last time Smith had any sort of decent success ). Sure we smashed them in the GF, but they were standouts during the year.

You'll find the season was built around using the same team ( or close to it ) week in, week out. Heck, even Jason Taylor played a major role in the season!

The fact remains, going into this weekend, we are 11th. We have improved on field dramatically, but you just don't know how much of the 38 points last weekend that was leaked can be attributed to a bit of uncertainty, and frustration affecting team morale amongst the players who I think we all know, are getting a bit confused ( maybe disappointed ) with the selection process as it currently stands.

A happy team is a winning team after all.

I don't want to get too carried away yet, but the writings on the wall...

 

[Jono078]

BG, appreciate the responses man, some valid points.

However, you should do a bit of research, and look back to the 2001 Parramatta Eels team. ( The last time Smith had any sort of decent success ). Sure we smashed them in the GF, but they were standouts during the year.

You'll find the season was built around using the same team ( or close to it ) week in, week out. Heck, even Jason Taylor played a major role in the season!

The fact remains, going into this weekend, we are 11th. We have improved on field dramatically, but you just don't know how much of the 38 points last weekend that was leaked can be attributed to a bit of uncertainty, and frustration affecting team morale amongst the players who I think we all know, are getting a bit confused ( maybe disappointed ) with the selection process as it currently stands.

A happy team is a winning team after all.

I don't want to get too carried away yet, but the writings on the wall...

And the funny thing is after the 2005 season he felt he didnt use enough players and should have rested some.

This year I feel he hasnt really made changes from his original 17 at the beginning of the year besides for injuries.

 

[antonius]

I don't see the word idiot in there anywhere.

I bag your opinion because you come on here and carry on as if everything you think or say is right, and if someone disagrees with you then they're an idiot.

and you don't?

That's where the problem starts.

You'll tear down any player you don't like as long as it suits you, and talk up your favourites like they're Gods.

Now your being a bit on the pot calling kettle black side. You don't rip into players? and who doesn't talk up their favourites? You do it. It's called opinion JM. I do recall you ripping into people that disagree with you on plenty of occasions. Your doing your best right now, and have been throwing out baits for two days now, that's how you operate.

 

[BG]

BG, appreciate the responses man, some valid points.

However, you should do a bit of research, and look back to the 2001 Parramatta Eels team. ( The last time Smith had any sort of decent success ).

Well, he did nab the minor premiership in 2005. The 2001 team was more stable but he still played mind games with the players by all reports. If this team continues to improve and gets half as good as the 01 Eels I'm sure we'll see more stability in 2009.

you just don't know how much of the 38 points last weekend that was leaked can be attributed to a bit of uncertainty, and frustration affecting team morale amongst the players who I think we all know, are getting a bit confused ( maybe disappointed ) with the selection process as it currently stands.

No I can't be sure of those things. Neither can you. Or Smith for that matter. We are all entitled to our opinions. My opinion is that what you are saying sounds feasible but is wrong based on many of the points I mentioned in my previous post. I can't prove it but I've given my reasons for that belief. Imho Smith made a couple of errors on Sunday. Karawana didn't work out at half. And Wicks was the same liability in defence he has been all year. I also don't think Vuna should have played centre (but I'm not sure if we had a better option available). But this is just a case of Smith making a few mistakes (he has gotten things right far more often), and by no means indicative that his overall approach is a problem. I'm also far from convinced that we would have seen much difference in the result whatever team we put on the park. (Given the players available--I think Doogs and Naiqama could have made a significant difference.) The team change that had the biggest influence on Sunday was the change in the opposition we had to face compared to the previous three weeks.