Tomkins

[vvvrulz]

While dreamers strop off over every little imperfection , Tomkins goes on making Hurrell the most lethal weapon in the NRL.

Fret away....we won....Tomkins set Konrad in for another class Try that takes timing skill and vision no Warrior has had on tap since Stacey Jones.

LOL what!?

Hurrell was pretty damn lethal even without Tomkins, what the heck are you talking about here. Plenty of guys have set Hurrell up near the line exactly like today, and its not so much the assist but Hurrells sheer pace and power that allows him to steamroll over the line.

Yes Tomkins has put on some great assists this year but your statement is a hugely wild exaggeration.

 

[sup42]

LOL what!?

Hurrell was pretty damn lethal even without Tomkins, what the heck are you talking about here. Plenty of guys have set Hurrell up near the line exactly like today, and its not so much the assist but Hurrells sheer pace and power that allows him to steamroll over the line.

Yes Tomkins has put on some great assists this year but your statement is a hugely wild exaggeration.

You don't know what you are talking about

With Tomkins Hurrell goes in through half gaps without having to bowl people over.

See the super players put the Mail Maninga's in half gaps.

The Warriors rubbish you are talking about bowling people is the backward part about NZ rugby league and why we can't beat the Kangaroos.

Sams the smartest footballer we have had in a ling time....the criticism of tonights game is just rubbish.

 

[sup42]

LOL what!?

Hurrell was pretty damn lethal even without Tomkins, what the heck are you talking about here. Plenty of guys have set Hurrell up near the line exactly like today, and its not so much the assist but Hurrells sheer pace and power that allows him to steamroll over the line.

Yes Tomkins has put on some great assists this year but your statement is a hugely wild exaggeration.

With Tomkins Hurrell goes in through half gaps without having to bowl people over.

See the super players put the Mail Maninga's in half gaps.

Hurrell mate is at his peak with Tomkins...I don't get how anyone could miss the right sided back door play from Johnson to Tomkins where the gap is made by Tomkins timing of that last pass.

Johnson is at his peak with Tomkins.

All you read around here is quibbles


The Warriors rubbish you are talking about bowling people is the backward part about NZ rugby league and why we can't beat the Kangaroos.

Sams the smartest footballer we have had in a ling time....the criticism of tonights game is just rubbish.

 

[winnyason]

Sam is a 6

 

[WellsNZ]

I for one like the Warriors having a fullback who actually scores tries, sets up tries (both directly and indirectly) and actually regularly involves himself in the play.

Still some teething issues (some that get overblown because he's ended up with a big microscope on him, some of which are entirely justified) but he's a hell of a lot more of a player than anyone else who has been in that jersey for a few years.

As sup42 has regularly mentioned, I think the impact he's had on Johnson is undeniable.

He's great at being the guy who makes the pass that leads to the pass that leads to a try.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

I for one like the Warriors having a fullback who actually scores tries, sets up tries (both directly and indirectly) and actually regularly involves himself in the play.

Still some teething issues (some that get overblown because he's ended up with a big microscope on him, some of which are entirely justified) but he's a hell of a lot more of a player than anyone else who has been in that jersey for a few years.

As sup42 has regularly mentioned, I think the impact he's had on Johnson is undeniable.

He's great at being the guy who makes the pass that leads to the pass that leads to a try.

His defence still needs work though. You can cop some poor positional decisions/errors, but there really isn't any excuse for his arm-centric tackles. Little things like that will only give the doubters ammunition. I think it's fair to hold Tomkins to a higher standard too, all things considered... he's better than that. He knows it and we know it.

His second effort on Barba was disgraceful. There was no excuse not to put some shoulders in the tackle. To quote Game of Thrones, the good deed doesn't wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.

We heard a lot of shit earlier in the season about effort, which most of us welcomed and were happy with - need a coach who'll hold people to account after all. But there's a lot of players in the team who would be playing reserve grade next week with media tales of poor "defensive KPIs" if they made the same half arsed challenge.

Personally I'd rather there was more scrutiny and pressure on Tomkins now. We don't want to end up with the Manu Vatuvei of fullbacks (and that's not a comparison of their talents/abilities) because coaches and fans are too happy to gloss over his frequent short-comings on account of the fact he sets up and scores a fair amount of try's.

Not criticised him publicly once this season but that left a sour taste in my mouth

 

[JJ]

I see the upside to Tomkins, I just fail to understand why some can't see his glaring issues - which are not quibble, nor are they teething problems.

 

[Izz]

Sure he has issues, but they're not as glaring as some people are making out.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

I see the upside to Tomkins, I just fail to understand why some can't see his glaring issues - which are not quibble, nor are they teething problems.

Who can't see his issues? The only thing myself and others have taken aim out is when people zero in on the bad, ignore the good, and then exaggerate to weight an argument.

It's a polarising topic and after awhile it forces the two sides further apart to the point where it seems like it's either boo Tomkins or yay Tomkins when really it's not that bad. At least between Warriors fans, the LU trolls are another subject.

 

[JJ]

Who can't see his issues? The only thing myself and others have taken aim out is when people zero in on the bad, ignore the good, and then exaggerate to weight an argument.

It's a polarising topic and after awhile it forces the two sides further apart to the point where it seems like it's either boo Tomkins or yay Tomkins when really it's not that bad. At least between Warriors fans, the LU trolls are another subject.

Yep, agree

I expected more good to be honest (or not so much bad - the errors etc are far too frequent and far too significant, and nothing to do with a new league)

I suspect he's just not the player he was because of injury

 

[vvvrulz]

Hurrell mate is at his peak with Tomkins...I don't get how anyone could miss the right sided back door play from Johnson to Tomkins where the gap is made by Tomkins timing of that last pass.

Johnson is at his peak with Tomkins.

....

Sams the smartest footballer we have had in a ling time....the criticism of tonights game is just rubbish.

I didn't miss the assist that setup Hurrell at all, and his try assists to his centres and wingers is one of the big positives Tomkins has brought along.

But seriously... Hurrell was being setup perfectly fine in the past.
Tomkins did not come along and flick a magic switch to turn Hurrell into a huge asset, he always was one.

Yes Johnson has stepped up big time, but I would put that down to an attitude improvement through McFadden and also Townsend just as much as Tomkins.

Tomkins was the primary driver of yesterdays win?

Apart from that try assist what did he really do that won us the game?
Even in that assist he didn't really stick Hurrell into a gap the way Mateo & Ikahihifo did for the other two tries, Hurrell still had work to do to score it.

His two errors conceded a try and bombed another great chance.
6-12 points potentially.

Smartest player in a long time? The vision of Stacey Jones?

Perhaps true as a playmaker to his backline, but there is much more to a fullback than just that and in the other departments he just standard at best.

 

[vvvrulz]

Who can't see his issues? The only thing myself and others have taken aim out is when people zero in on the bad, ignore the good, and then exaggerate to weight an argument.

It's a polarising topic and after awhile it forces the two sides further apart to the point where it seems like it's either boo Tomkins or yay Tomkins when really it's not that bad. At least between Warriors fans, the LU trolls are another subject.

Consider that when the likes of Inu would make stupid mistakes everyone here would go *nuts* despite said errors being a rarity in the Warriors jersey.

Tomkins is also being compared to Manu as well, but even Manu doesn't average 1-2 stupid mistakes every match.

Just to be clear I like Tomkins, he plays his guts out every week and the good things he does is obviously paying off big time in our attack. I never call him a bad player, or wanted him to be dropped even though Locke was probably on par in terms of skill set.

I certainly don't ignore the good, but I don't feel I am exaggerating his flaws because he was supposed to be the big signing of the season. Its justified. He is missing huge parts in his game to make him one of the top NRL fullbacks. For everything brilliant, he'll do something terrible and the rest of it is pretty normal.

So in my books he's a normal NRL fullback if you sum all the parts.
And normal is not what we signed him up for, hence the microscope.

 

[Iafeta]

Consider that when the likes of Inu would make stupid mistakes everyone here would go *nuts* despite said errors being a rarity in the Warriors jersey.

Tomkins is also being compared to Manu as well, but even Manu doesn't average 1-2 stupid mistakes every match.

Just to be clear I like Tomkins, he plays his guts out every week and the good things he does is obviously paying off big time in our attack. I never call him a bad player, or wanted him to be dropped even though Locke was probably on par in terms of skill set.

I certainly don't ignore the good, but I don't feel I am exaggerating his flaws because he was supposed to be the big signing of the season. Its justified. He is missing huge parts in his game to make him one of the top NRL fullbacks. For everything brilliant, he'll do something terrible and the rest of it is pretty normal.

So in my books he's a normal NRL fullback if you sum all the parts.
And normal is not what we signed him up for, hence the microscope.

IIRC, fans here weren't going nuts over Inu's errors. In fact there was a schnid tin of head scratching as to why Ivan was continually leaving him out of the team.

KTF is spot on. There are a number of posters who are seriously fapping over Tomkins errors without acknowledging the good things he's brought into the team. There's a number who exaggerate cynically for effect. Where is the uproar anywhere here on LU for Ben Barba miss timing terribly his slide from Ben Henry to Shaun Johnson. We are all taught to tackle the ball carrier, Barba didn't even get close to laying a hand on Benry. There's no thread anywhere on that. Then there's the claim that due to Barbas try that shows he's better than Tomkins. Ask Broncos fans what Batba's season has been like. There appears to be a gross mismatch in reality on here.

Locke isn't on par with Tomkins. There's a reason the Warriors went looking for a fullback. Kevin, on and off the pitch, had seriously under performed since the end of 2011. His attitude was atrocious. He also seemed to lack pace. Tomkins would never have been on the radar had Kev kept up his form from 2011. In fact he'd probably have a nice 3 or 4 year contract here if that was the case. But he dropped the ball. He became complacent. And in so doing, he became ordinary. Ordinary doesn't work with his off field approach and the associated poor culture at the club. It's a massive shame. I was a huge fan and thought we truly had a special one in a generation Kiwis full back.

Mores to the point, we cannot attract the premier footballers. Brent Tate was the last big name we were able to recruit. Our local lads are probably playing for respective unders meaning we have a gap in the cap. In that essence, Tomkins isn't costing us anything in an economic opportunity cost sense. I think he ends time to settle and understand what is required to prepare for NRL. I would not be surprised if next year he is carving up. Much like everyone here, I agree, I would like the errors to reduce because his passing game is gold for that right edge.

Another thing I find interesting is the lack of discussion on Jayson Bukuya. He is also on good coin. For mine his defence on the edge has been fairly ordinary over the last month.

 

[Iafeta]

I definitely agree with Barba being rubbish, he isn't better than Tomkins by any stretch.

But that doesn't stop it from being a terrible attempt to tackle him, Tomkins had two clean shots on him and got completely owned. I can understand fullbacks missing the last tackle and its not expected to nail every opponent who makes a break.

But Barba hadn't really got away with great pace, and especially after bouncing off the fend Tomkins should have been able to cover him the second time.

And we're talking about a little guy like Barba ffs, it was pretty hopeless.
Not a lack of effort, just didn't have the technique and power.

I've seen blokes with more power than their size suggests. Barba is one in the past who has had a good fend coupled with acceleration and swerve. This is definitely not the first time Barba has done that on a fullback. Again though where is the criticism on Barba for not even attempting to tackle Benry earlier in the night? On a number of breaks like that, the fullback will generally not complete a full tackle, the cover defence though is able to stop the play because the momentum is dulled. Aside from I think it was Benry, where was the effort from the other Warrior defenders? This is why I think the likes of Friend and Mannering and Benry are grossly undervalued at times - their second efforts, their scramble D, is awesome. It's also why I thought Manu was excellent yesterday, that scramble on the Hunt kick was outstanding.

 

[Iafeta]

I for one like the Warriors having a fullback who actually scores tries, sets up tries (both directly and indirectly) and actually regularly involves himself in the play.

Still some teething issues (some that get overblown because he's ended up with a big microscope on him, some of which are entirely justified) but he's a hell of a lot more of a player than anyone else who has been in that jersey for a few years.

As sup42 has regularly mentioned, I think the impact he's had on Johnson is undeniable.

He's great at being the guy who makes the pass that leads to the pass that leads to a try.

Agree. Neither Tommy or the Chad are exceptional playmakers. They are whole hearted and they play direct well, and they bark instructions well. Shaun doesn't have to be THE man every time. Previously Shaun has overplayed his hand out of frustration. Tomkins is doing a similar job to what Darius Boyd used to do for Saints, and cutie for Brisbane. Sweeping into play, drawing defenders and isolating one on one a power man, or better, put the power man though the gap.

Yes, he needs to improve his defence. Yes he pulled down Copley on a break which is also forgotten. He's a good talent, I'm sure the teething issues will improve ten fold next year. I genuinely think he needs a season under his belt. Further, I think he has already improved a lot since the earlier rounds.

 

[Meth]

But seriously... Hurrell was being setup perfectly fine in the past.

I wouldn't say so, but then again I wouldn't say Tomkins in necessarily all of the difference. Some of it, no doubt

 

[Meth]

Another thing I find interesting is the lack of discussion on Jayson Bukuya. He is also on good coin. For mine his defence on the edge has been fairly ordinary over the last month.

Agreed. Seems to be on a bit of a form slide

 

[vvvrulz]

KTF is spot on. There are a number of posters who are seriously fapping over Tomkins errors without acknowledging the good things he's brought into the team. There's a number who exaggerate cynically for effect. Where is the uproar anywhere here on LU for Ben Barba miss timing terribly his slide from Ben Henry to Shaun Johnson. We are all taught to tackle the ball carrier, Barba didn't even get close to laying a hand on Benry. There's no thread anywhere on that. Then there's the claim that due to Barbas try that shows he's better than Tomkins. Ask Broncos fans what Batba's season has been like. There appears to be a gross mismatch in reality on here.

Locke isn't on par with Tomkins. There's a reason the Warriors went looking for a fullback. Kevin, on and off the pitch, had seriously under performed since the end of 2011. His attitude was atrocious. He also seemed to lack pace. Tomkins would never have been on the radar had Kev kept up his form from 2011. In fact he'd probably have a nice 3 or 4 year contract here if that was the case. But he dropped the ball. He became complacent. And in so doing, he became ordinary. Ordinary doesn't work with his off field approach and the associated poor culture at the club. It's a massive shame. I was a huge fan and thought we truly had a special one in a generation Kiwis full back.

That Barba incident was a 2-1 overlap and he was always going to be beaten. If he slides to Benry then the pass is made and Johnson scores every day of the week.

But that's a bit beside the point, I don't think anyone anywhere here rates Barba and everyone is hating on him all the time. Anyone who said that Barba is better than Tomkins based on that 1-1 is pretty much off their rocker imo.

When I said Locke was on par with Tomkins I meant in terms of potential skills on the park. As I said all his other dramas means he pretty much has no place in this team and Tomkins is #1, Locke can go and most of us won't be shedding any tears.

I don't feel I'm exaggerating anything when saying Tomkins is doing some great work missed with some bog standard work and some genuine howlers. Which makes him a standard NRL fullback and bit of a disappointment *so far*

My only fear is that this might be what Tomkins will ever be, 14 rounds should have been enough to start regularly getting points on our 3-2-1's given that he is supposed to be one of our big guns.

 

[jaseg]

I see the upside to Tomkins, I just fail to understand why some can't see his glaring issues - which are not quibble, nor are they teething problems.

Really? Because on page 7 you said this: "Tomkins is ordinary, case closed as far as I am concerned". Describing Tomkins as ordinary is pretty clearly not seeing the incredible upside. The guy is not a good defensive player at all, but is maybe our most important attacking player, both by what he does directly (floating into the line and setting up the outside backs quite well) and by the pressure he takes off guys like Johnson with his movement around the play (so opposition players aren't thinking 'shut down Johnson and you shut down the play'). Basically in attack he's just about everything I wanted Kevin Locke to be. Needs to work on the other areas of his game (when we don't have the ball), of course. Luckily that stuff is easier to learn than the vision and attacking instincts Tomkins has shown he already has.

Also, can people stop suggesting him playing as a 6? How is playing him in the defensive line going to help at all? He plays like an extra playmaker from fullback, and that suits us just fine - no need to move him to an area where he will be more exposed to opposition edge forwards.

 

[TheDMC]

Yawn. This thread is going around in circles. We now know each other's opinion clearly cause most have said it ten times already, no point trying to change other's point of view.

Let's just say Tomkins is a great asset with a few crinkles to iron out by next season.