Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

[soc123_au]

i'm in kind of the same boat.. i think a designated service for young men would improve the attitudes of a lot of younger blokes.. hopefully mean less idiots running around..

Exactly. The discipline & camaraderie learned in that environment is sadly lacking in many people.

 

[Misanthrope]

That being said, it does have a largely negative effect on a lot of American youths.

 

[whall15]

A draft would be the worst thing to do.

 

[Misanthrope]

Agreed. I honestly don't think one would work in this day and age.

 

[whall15]

If there is one sure-fire way to 'corrupt our youth' it is to teach them how to kill.

 

[muzby]

If there is one sure-fire way to 'corrupt our youth' it is to teach them how to kill.

see i view a national service as slightly different to a draft..

draft = holy crap we're at war and need to get more bodies into the army..


national service = military style training, not always to kill..

 

[whall15]

see i view a national service as slightly different to a draft..

draft = holy crap we're at war and need to get more bodies into the army..


national service = military style training, not always to kill..

What is military style training? It is training people how to kill.

 

[umina panther]

Im with whall on this. The human race is pathetic and war is us at our worst

 

[Joker's Wild]

What is military style training? It is training people how to kill.

Only in part

Its also training to survive, work as a team, protect others, perform at peak level fitness and so much more

Saying its just "training people to kill" is incredibly naive

 

[Misanthrope]

Only in part

Its also training to survive, work as a team, protect others, perform at peak level fitness and so much more

Saying its just "training people to kill" is incredibly naive

I have to agree with JW here. Obviously infantry training has quite a bit of focus on the 'kill' part, but you're still learning things such as team work, respect for authority, loyalty, improved fitness, survival etc.

But other roles, with less focus on the combat side of things, train you in all manner of skills.

 

[whall15]

The primary reason for those skills to be taught is to make people more effective at killing other people.

 

[whall15]

By the way, respect for authority is not a skill.

 

[Misanthrope]

The primary reason for those skills to be taught is to make people more effective at killing other people.

Only if they're being trained in a combat role.

The army also trains medics, communications technicians, engineers etc. They receive limited combat training, but the primary reason for their training is certainly not combat.

And you're right, respect for authority isn't a skill, but it's a trait that many people could do to learn a modicum of. It's fine to question authority, but more often than not it's just a flagrant disregard it.

 

[umina panther]

Why should anyone respect authority? Respect has to be earned not beaten into people.

 

[Misanthrope]

Why should anyone respect authority? Respect has to be earned not beaten into people.

Did somebody try to beat respect into you, UP?

Of course you should have at least a shred of respect for authority. You raise kids under the guise of authority, you expect them to attend school and learn from an authority, we have laws in place to prevent people from doing stupid shit/whatever they want, and these are enforced from a position of authority.

How is a teacher supposed to do their job if they have to spend the first few weeks of their classes 'earning' respect from their students?

 

[whall15]

But you aren't going to send kindergarten kids into the military Mis.

 

[Misanthrope]

But you aren't going to send kindergarten kids into the military Mis.

You're being deliberately obtuse. I was addressing UP's claim that all respect must be earned.

soc has said earlier that a little discipline would do today's teenage youth good, and I'd agree. They'd learn that in the military.

 

[whall15]

As a member of that demographic I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

[muzby]

What is military style training? It is training people how to kill.

not at all.. there's fitness.. teamwork.. it's about instilling routine and discipline into people.. helping people to take orders..

plenty of other roles in the military outside of those designed just to kill people...

some of the best people i have worked with, both professionally and in groups at uni, have former military backgrounds..

they knuckle down, focus on what is at hand and don't get caught up in other crap around them..

 

[afinalsin666]

Yeah, i'm with whall.

"f**k you i won't do what you tell me."

Military "discipline" is just fear, not respect.