Unpopular Opinion

[LeagueNut]

Just out of curiosity I looked at the stats on his captaincy. Stats can be misleading, the game has changed over the years and captains have had to work with various teammates & coaches but I didn't realise how different his numbers are.

Our 4 most capped captains are Mannering (137 games), Price (90), Jones (74) and RTS (73). After that it's quite a drop to Betham (38), Ridge (33), Simon (27), etc. So I'm just looking at the stats for the top 4.

Win % as captain:
Mannering 50.4%
Price 46.7%
Jones 47.3%
RTS 41.1%

Players sin-binned:
Mannering 3
Price 4
Jones 2
RTS 10

Average score:
Mannering 21.6 - 21.0
Price 20.9 - 20.2
Jones 24.1 - 22.9
RTS 17.8 - 22.2

For & Against:
Mannering +85
Price +62
Jones +89
RTS -321 (!!)

Average penalty count:
Mannering 5.5 - 5.7
Price 6.4 - 6.2
Jones 6.1 - 6.3
RTS 6.8 - 7.0

Food for thought...

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Tbf I think you could have John Sattler captaining some of these boys and they still wouldn’t follow. Green would be an option but he shouldn’t even be in the team at the moment

To add another unpopular opinion, Kearney will be coach next year regardless of what happens this season, as the people in charge won’t have the plums to sack him under these circumstances

 

[Meth]

I also don't see what goes on week to week at training - I know he sets standards. Are we saying he's woeful because he doesn't talk to refs? Because he doesn't seem to be rousing his team enough?

I’ll concede that there is a lot to the role which I just cannot see.

But yeah- last night, we looked like we were without leadership last night.

The challenge was frustratingly shit. So many questionable decisions from the ref and RTS gets his arm twisted by a rookie (presumably) to make a boneheaded challenge.

The refs don’t respect him. Not as a captain. He’s an easy night for them.

Also, Kearney sucks, but RTS is a part of that leadership structure too. Why do we lambast Kearney and deify RTS?

who else? Not sure. And I get that this is an important question. At this stage, I am just pointing out the problem, not offering a solution.

 

[Rich102]

Interesting.
I am not convinced that fullback is an ideal position to lead the team from.
Can't fault RTS's effort but he is left to clean up a lot of defensive lapses and hardly a way to "lead" a team.
That said I think this team deserves an E for effort.
The matter is not helped by the lack of flair from the coaches, both in game plan and selections.
We know Kearney is a Bellamy wannabe. Defence is everything. But if you can't score points you can't win games.
Attack starts in the halves. They set up the structure and, hopefully, create the gaps. Our halves are pure stodge. The only worse ones I have seen lately were Norman & Hunt. Green is over the hill and Kodi has made one line break in two games. At least CHT tried.
Sadly I think it is going to be a very long "short" season. Kearney has to go.

 

[JJ]

I thought we were 37.6% more likely to lose when Mannering played?

 

[JJ]

I'm not criticising Roger, he's a beast... Kearney is the issue here...

Longer term might be that Egan is an option if he develops? 9 or halves are ideal places to lead from imo. But big call to take the captaincy away from Roger now

 

[WellsNZ]

If you can't be inspired by what Roger does every week to pull finger yourself then the problem isn't him.

We had similar issues with shit teams with Mannering. Again, if you couldn't be inspired by what he did each week, what would you be inspired by?

It's not like the captain is the only person who is allowed to lead the team. Other teams have multiple leaders, it isn't always the captain rallying people. But we are devoid of leadership. We're not too dissimilar to the Broncos in that way.

Nobody on the team is going to suddenly get their shit together because someone like Green is talking to them. The refs aren't either.

I wouldn't necessarily be against taking the captaincy from him, if we had a legitimate candidate to replace him. But we don't. We don't even have someone who would kind of be a good replacement.

 

[Meth]

But we are devoid of leadership.

That's my point.

And RTS is our "leader"

 

[Matua]

I thought we were 37.6% more likely to lose when Mannering played?

Iron Lion would be here backing that stat up if he was out of his underground Covid bunker.

@Meth I don't think RTS can be apportioned too much blame, he's captain but Kearney is the boss, and successful teams have a leadership group ... RTS leads by example, but he gets no support on field from any sort of leadership group, and crucially there's no leadership above him. He's pushing tutae uphill. I guess it comes down to if there's a better player to lead than him? I don't think there is ... there's barely any nailed on starters in that squad.

 

[WellsNZ]

That's my point.

And RTS is our "leader"

Most teams don't just have one single point of leadership.

Most of the good leaders are also surrounded by good coaches and good players who want to be led.

RTS has none of these luxuries.

It doesn't matter who you are, if your coach is a clown and your roster is shit, there's only so much one single leader can do.

I don't really see the point in going in on him when we have no other options, the list of issues that need to be resolved before RTS being replaced as captain is pretty long. It includes having someone capable of being a good replacement. Until then, it's pointless.

 

[Meth]

Let’s be clear to seperate RTS the player from RTS the captain. He is an extraordinary player- no question.

And I am not saying that there is a better option to be captain. I can’t see one who would definitely be better.

All I am saying is that I don’t see any evidence that he is a good leader and I can see a lot of evidence that he isn’t. Granted, there is a lot that you and I don’t see. But so far, the only evidence presented for him as captain is that he is a heck of a player

 

[Meth]

Also, I think this forum is generally generous towards RTS

 

[JJ]

Also, I think this forum is generally generous towards RTS

He’s a pretty good player

He didn’t make himself captain and didn’t play Herbert on the wing

 

[Meth]

He’s a pretty good player

He didn’t make himself captain and didn’t play Herbert on the wing

he is a sensational player.

he was shit last night though. Still gets talked up when he’s shit.

 

[JJ]

he is a sensational player.

he was shit last night though. Still gets talked up when he’s shit.

In terms of leadership Gutho seems to do well from the back

Anyone that thinks Kearney isn’t problem #1 should watch Lane with the Eels. *edit and poor Herbert under the high ball

 

[Blair]

If Blair was consistent with form, and cleaner with his play, he'd be the obvious choice as captain. He seems to command pretty good mana off the field. What a waste he's generally no good.

 

[Leber]

I’d have tohu as captain tbh

 

[Meth]

I don't see why you can't captain from fullback. There are actually some advantages. Obviously, your half is always going to have a leadership role.

 

[Blair]

I don't see why you can't captain from fullback. There are actually some advantages. Obviously, your half is always going to have a leadership role.

In union, it's a given, that forwards usually have a problem with a back being captain.

I wonder whether that's the same in league?

 

[LeagueNut]

I thought we were 37.6% more likely to lose when Mannering played?

(I hate seeing stuff like this because it sticks in my brain and won't go away until I've worked it out!)

Simon made his debut in Round 16 2005 and played his last match in the 2018 finals. He played 301 matches out of a possible 333.

We won 141 of the 301 matches Simon played, so a win rate of 46.8%.

We won 12 of the 32 matches Simon missed, so a win rate of 37.5%.

So based on all that, our winning percentage dropped 20% when Simon wasn't there.