Victorian Born Storm Players

[Brycey]

This is really affecting you on a personal level huh ED

 

[Perth Red]

So if Widdop isn't a Victorian I presume Car Hunte isn't a product of the Brisbane set up? You suggesting that no immigrant into the country should be classed as a product of a team that brings him through to 1st grade?

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion ED!

 

[El Diablo]

So a 15 y/o from Halifax is already skilled enuogh to play in the NYC ?

Or are there programs in Melbourne in place to take this 15 year old to this level ?

i'd say he was 16

if you call a pom spending 2 years at Melbourne a local junior then you've lost me

 

[dallymessenger]

Dallymesenger appears to have lost this agruement completely on the basis of continually changing the subject, it doesn't matter how right or wrong ED is, the fact remains that ED is sticking with the topic in a thread that he didn't even create and yet messenger continually changes the subject by bagging off another club and attacking ED!!

pissweak form messenger..

you reckon.

the guy didnt even know there was a 2nd tier cap. he was just saying the storm can buy all the juniors they want. the very things he accuses the storm of, parramatta do as well.

maybe if you opened up both eyes instead of one, youd see the hypocrisy.

and just to remind you of how much parra bludge off other clubs, lets remember when parra signed the 4 bulldogs players during SL. that was because no one wanted to go to parra as they were seen as a club of losers.

judging by the 2001 GF, that is apt.

how a parra fan - a club that is basically one of the worst footy clubs in the past 20 years given their resources - can bag one of the most succesful clubs of modern times is beyond me

 

[El Diablo]

So if Widdop isn't a Victorian I presume Car Hunte isn't a product of the Brisbane set up? You suggesting that no immigrant into the country should be classed as a product of a team that brings him through to 1st grade?

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion ED!

are you brain dead :?

how is someone who was born and raised in England for 16 of his 18 years of life a Victorian?

it's not jealousy. it's common sense.

 

[El Diablo]

you reckon.

the guy didnt even know there was a 2nd tier cap.

i'v already told you i was well aware of it. another thing that can't sink into your geniused brain

 

[Kurt Angle]

i'd say he was 16

if you call a pom spending 2 years at Melbourne a local junior then you've lost me

He played u18's this year.

Thus he played u16's two years ago, in 2005 when he moved to Australia.

You can't be 16 years old and playing under 16's.

That said, one year isn't a great deal.

What is important is your notion that you think the Storm do nothing but buy ready made NRL first graders from everyone else's nurseries.

I don't think a 15 year old boy from Halfix is ready made for the NRL.

Nor was Falou, Inglis or Slater.

They get their hands on decent junior players and put them through the development programs in place.

The EMPHASISE the point, they also put PL hacks through their development programs, guys like Matt King.

We see what this programs does to players, be they 16 year olds or 22 y/o PL rejects... it makes them into SOO and International players.

You seem to be up in arms that the Storm aren't solely fielding a NYC team consisting of AFL rejects that could be scoured from the suburbs of Melbourne.

I am happy that the Storm have set the benchmark for developing young Australian talent and having them play in the premier RL tournament week-in, week-out.

 

[dallymessenger]

As much as I enjoy your work in TFC this is one of the most irrelevant and idiotic posts (especially as it relates the actual topic) I've ever seen... Anyone who would even try an argument that the Parramatta District isn't developing juniors knows absolutely ZERO about the game...

out of last years eels FG side, you have mark riddell, brett finch, fuifui and tahu as players that came from other clubs.

then you have players like the smiths that came from queensland and the country.

how many players from the eels staring 17 actually played junior footyball in the parramatta area?

if ED wants to critisise the storm for it, lets compare how his club does on exactly the same measure.

given parramatta are in a RL state and in the middle of RL heartlands, their efforts at bringing players from their junior team into the FG side are fairly poor.

if someone wants to dish out critisim, its only fair then to see how their clubs stands on exactly the same issue

 

[dallymessenger]

i'v already told you i was well aware of it. another thing that can't sink into your geniused brain

where have you shown an understanding of the 2nd tier cap?

comments along the lines that melbourne spend more on juniors than other clubs, melbourne just buy up other clubs juniors shows you have no idea how the salary cap works?

if you understood about the cap, you wouldnt be implying they can spend what they want on juniors.

you would recognize they have good management and are able to get quality, and have good development systems at the club.

 

[El Diablo]

He played u18's this year.

Thus he played u16's two years ago, in 2005 when he moved to Australia.

You can't be 16 years old and playing under 16's.

i suggest you read my first post commenting on his age http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=3942612&postcount=217

the article dated December 2007 says he's 18 now and has been here since 2005

. he was 16 or very close to it

What is important is your notion that you think the Storm do nothing but buy ready made NRL first graders from everyone else's nurseries.

I don't think a 15 year old boy from Halfix is ready made for the NRL.

Nor was Falou, Inglis or Slater.

They get their hands on decent junior players and put them through the development programs in place.

they buy the best juniors and seem to do little in the way of developing locall talent. that is why they have 0 juniors

WA and NT juniors play the game though

The EMPHASISE the point, they also put PL hacks through their development programs, guys like Matt King.

that is not a first and won't be the last. i'd wager nearly every club has done this. Fui is another recent example

You seem to be up in arms that the Storm aren't solely fielding a NYC team consisting of AFL rejects that could be scoured from the suburbs of Melbourne.

haven't mentioned AFL :?

after 10 years i expect better. their MO seems to raiding other clubs though. this is why they will never have 1 junior

I am happy that the Storm have set the benchmark for developing young Australian talent and having them play in the premier RL tournament week-in, week-out.

if the Storm are the benchmark and all other clubs followed suit then RL would cease to exist as they would have to give up on local development

 

[El Diablo]

where have you shown an understanding of the 2nd tier cap?

you made the accusation. the onus is on you to provide a source, not me

 

[dallymessenger]

you made the accusation. the onus is on you to provide a source, not me

comments that the storm pay so much for juniors shows a basic ignorance of how a salary cap works?

so if you really understand that there is a 2nd tier SC, then you agree that the storm pay as much for juniors as other NRL clubs???

so no reason to whine then is there?

or are you saying the storm should spend less than other clubs?

 

[dallymessenger]

ill make this simple ED, what is it that the storm do differently to other nrl clubs with regards to player signing and development ??

every club has a set amount available to spend on FG players and 2nd tier players, how they choose to allocate that money is at a clubs discretion.

what do the storm do differently from other clubs - especially parramatta (except win GFs of course)

 

[Kurt Angle]

i suggest you read my first post commenting on his age http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=3942612&postcount=217

the article dated December 2007 says he's 18 now and has been here since 2005

I suggest you look at who was halfback for the under 18's Victorian state side in 2007

Journalists have been known to be a bit lazy, where 17 turning 18 in February will be 'an 18 year old'.

I will say he is 17.

If he was older, I'm sure SA, WA and NT would have had him deregistered for the affiliated states tournmanet, as he was the standout player for Victoria.

they buy the best juniors and seem to do little in the way of developing locall talent. that is why they have 0 juniors

'Best' juniors hey.

Well lets look at some Australian schoolboys who hjave been graded of recent times....

-----------
2006 Team:

Israel Folau (Storm)
Chris Lawrence (Tigers)
Mitchell Pearce (Roosters)
David Taylor (Brisbane)

I think Joel Thompson and Shannon Walker have been graded too yeah?

2005 Team:
Darius Boyd (Broncos)
Mitch Brown (Cronulla)
Michael Jennings (Penrith)
Jarrod Mullen (Newcastle)
Mitchell Pearce (Roosters)
David Taylor (Broncos)
Mitch Aubusson (Roosters)
Joel Moon (Broncos)
Cory Paterson (Knights)

2004 Team:
Michael Dobson (Canberra)
Blake Green (Parramatta)
Greg Inglis (Storm)
Michael Lett (Parramatta)
Steve Michaels (Broncos)
Junior Moors (Penrith)
Jarrod Mullen (Newcastle)
Kade Snowden (Newcastle)

2002 Team:
Liam Fulton (Tigers)
Keith Galloway (Tigers)
Ben Hannant (Broncos)
Ryan Hoffman (Storm)
Tom Learoyd-Lahrs (Canberra)
Heath Le'Strange (Roosters)
Jacob Lillyman (Cowboys)
Justin Poore (Dragons)
Ashton Sims (Dragons)
Tim Smith (Parramatta)
Michael Weyman (Canberra)

2001 Team:
Nick Parfitt (Broncos)
Ashley Alberts (Manly)
Brett Seymour (Sharks)
Joe Williams (Souths)
Michael Weyman (Canberra)
Trevor Thurling (Canberra)
Greg Bird (Cronulla)

2000 Team:

Joven Clarke (Cronulla)
Ben Czislowski (Bulldogs)
Luke Dorn (UK)
Brett Firman (Panthers)
Steve Irwin (Canberra)
Joel Monaghan (Roosters)
Andrew Price (Dragons)
Anthony Quinn (Melbourne)

----------------------

They don't seem to be plundering the best out there do they ?

In fact, it appears Melbourne is getting its hands on the dregs, THEN turning them into stars.

WA and NT juniors play the game though

You mean the juniors that aren't making it close to the NRL ?

Well I'd gather there's plenty of Victorians of that quality. However neither WA or NT don't have an NRL team to field, thus the poor quality isn't such an issue.

that is not a first and won't be the last. i'd wager nearly every club has done this. Fui is another recent example

Much like Jamie Lyon also made it as a junior, thus Parramatta has a development program for guys they poach from Wee Waa.... the shame !!!!

haven't mentioned AFL :?

Kids in Victoria = AFL players.

Kids not playing AFL in Victoria = AFL reject.

after 10 years i expect better.

Now we are at the crux of the argument, the opinion you have interlaced within the argument.

Where did this expectation come from?

their MO seems to raiding other clubs though.

And that makes them different from other clubs how ?

Other clubs raid other sports, such as RU for example. The storm aren't doing a great deal different that other clubs, other than the quality the like of Inglis and Falou turn out to be.

You may whinge about it, but that won't solve anything.

Other clubs do try to remedy it, such as the Roosters buying the services of Sullivan for example.

this is why they will never have 1 junior

As I said before, never is a long time, and about expectation.

if the Storm are the benchmark and all other clubs followed suit then RL would cease to exist as they would have to give up on local development

Rigghhttttttt.

So if no juniors existed, who would the storm 'poach' ?

More trips to Halifax then ?

 

[El Diablo]

comments that the storm pay so much for juniors shows a basic ignorance of how a salary cap works?

i had an analogy i used for Brycey earlier. i suggest you read it

so if you really understand that there is a 2nd tier SC, then you agree that the storm pay as much for juniors as other NRL clubs???

no. i believe they would pay more given examples of outbidding other clubs for juniors

so no reason to whine then is there?

yes there is as they're doing bugger all in their own backyard

or are you saying the storm should spend less than other clubs?

they should spend as much as other clubs in their local area. i do not believe they're even attempting to do this

 

[El Diablo]

They don't seem to be plundering the best out there do they ?

In fact, it appears Melbourne is getting its hands on the dregs, THEN turning them into stars.

it has been stated by others they have 21 junior reps sgned up in the last few years. this just doesn't include the schoolboys

You mean the juniors that aren't making it close to the NRL ?

Chambers, Peterson and Holdsworth play in the NRL. i'm sure there are more

Much like Jamie Lyon also made it as a junior, thus Parramatta has a development program for guys they poach from Wee Waa.... the shame !!!!

you're going down dally's path now. Lyon is not the same as King and Fui

why compare rejects to youngsters :?

Kids in Victoria = AFL players.

Kids not playing AFL in Victoria = AFL reject.

is that all you can come up with :?

that has no factual basis at all

Now we are at the crux of the argument, the opinion you have interlaced within the argument.

Where did this expectation come from?

2 premierships and many years of success

And that makes them different from other clubs how ?

because they actually develop local players

Other clubs do try to remedy it, such as the Roosters buying the services of Sullivan for example.

we'll see how he goes without the News Ltd Cheque book

Rigghhttttttt.

So if no juniors existed, who would the storm 'poach' ?

nobody. i thought i made it quite clear RL would die

no juniors = no NRL

Storm = no juniors

 

[Brycey]

ED you're quick to point out everyone else's lack of factual base but yet your whole argument lacks such.

1) You have no figures of what the Storm spend in their own backyard

2) "no. i believe they would pay more given examples of outbidding other clubs for juniors" - I don't know whether you're insinuating (sp?) that the Storm break the salary cap here its open to interpretation but if so no proof of that, and you also have no proof that every/majority of juniors signed are outbidded.

 

[Kurt Angle]

it has been stated by others they have 21 junior reps sgned up in the last few years. this just doesn't include the schoolboys.

Look at what constitutes 'junior rep players', and these labels are handed out pretty freely. I'd be surprised that every club didn't have towards '20 junior rep players'.

The cream of the crop however are Australian schoolboys, and melbourne doesn't have smortgage there do they?

Chambers, Peterson and Holdsworth play in the NRL. i'm sure there are more

Peterson was contracted even before Melbourne had a team. Hsitorically Perth has had a stronger RL presence than Melbourne.

Last years u18's showed this is changing however.

you're going down dally's path now. Lyon is not the same as King and Fui

No, King is the same as Fui Fui Moi Moi

Lyon and Tim Smith is the same as Inglis and Falou, a junior 'plundered' from another club, namely Wee Waa and whatever QLD club.

They are all examples of Melbourne development and Parramatta development.

why compare rejects to youngsters :?

Because rejects and youngsters share something in common, they get better with development programs.

Development programs don't start at 6 or you miss the boat.. thus we have Moi Moi or King.

Recent history shows Melbourne have a great development program.

is that all you can come up with :?

that has no factual basis at all

Much like every argument you have put forward.

All you have put forward is an incomplete analysis of your expectation of where the Storm should be.

I suggest the $44 billion a year the Storm spend on junior development in Victoria isn't producing any NRL juniors because Victorians are spastics, and no amount of money can ever help these geniuss..... this is just as solid an argument as you have put forward.

2 premierships and many years of success

That comes from the senior team. You don't win the NRL premiership with 15 year olds.

Does anyone win it anymore with 17 local juniors ?

No, they get it from who they believe to be the 'best juniors'.

The this squad of juniors is limited by a salary cap, the money side is an even playing field.

because they actually develop local players

Again, which team has 25 local juniors in their squad ?

Victorians are spastics, they won't make NRL squads until some NSW'ers and QLD'ers stay in Victoria and spread their genes around.

we'll see how he goes without the News Ltd Cheque book

Or a salary cap.

nobody. i thought i made it quite clear RL would die

no juniors = no NRL

Storm = no juniors

Storm has had plenty of juniors.

 

[Cloud9]

Oh no!! It's not El Sour Grapes again having another El whinge at the Storm.

I like to see this bloke try to promote the game.

 

[dallymessenger]

i had an analogy i used for Brycey earlier. i suggest you read it



no. i believe they would pay more given examples of outbidding other clubs for juniors


yes there is as they're doing bugger all in their own backyard



they should spend as much as other clubs in their local area. i do not believe they're even attempting to do this

how can the storm spend more on juniors than other clubs when their is a SC in place limiting that? either you understand what the cap does or you dont - right now you dont.

why shouldnt the storm sign juniors from other areas, parramatta do it as well. and they have a healthy RL nursey to pick from as well.

if i were you id just stop, the hole is getting so much bigger.

have you hit china yet