Week 1 Finals: Parra v Penrith GAME DAY THREAD @ Bluebet Stadium 9/9/22

[the phantom menace]

Well I could assume I'm not explaining myself properly, but I really suspect you're just playing semantic games because you've been too quick with your blame and now can't bring yourself to reconsider.

I'd go with your first assumption there... you're talking in circles and only convincing yourself.

I stand by that Blake dropping bombs was poor catching, and Arthur missing a tackle was poor defence. That's not blame. That's observation of key moments in the game.

Try and and spin that if you think you can... but then go back to your first assumption again

 

[lucablight]

Lane only made 10 runs. Kikau made 18 runs and played the full 80 minutes. Fisher-Harris made 21 runs and Yeo made 19.

We lead the Panthers for yardage gain at halftime 889m to 668m. By full time it as 1754m to 1338m. Edwards, Tago and May combined for 592 of those. Conversely only Sivo made more than 100m out of our back 5.

 

[lucablight]

Penrith's whole back row played 80 minutes.

Yes because their backs help out in yardage gain which means they can front load their efforts in defence. We don’t have that luxury.

 

[lucablight]

Right but he's obviously underdone or he would've at least taken Makatoa's spot. Maybe we'll see him next week? Or do you think he's picking Makatoa so he can get his appearance bonus?

I think the coach doesn’t trust his fringe players and wants his big money players to go the extra mile and play huge minutes.

 

[the phantom menace]

Assuming we bring in another reserve grader (or unfit Nathan Brown) whose minutes does he take?

The minutes from the ineffective injury cover utility, who we don't need taking up an option with our full strength side and their skills available...

Surely the point of having four forwards on the bench as options in games against strong packs is not that hard to understand, when the point is made here week in week out? Kind of like the point about the need to deviate from the game plan at some point as time ticks on, when it's clear the chosen game plan for that day isn't working.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Ivan Cleary is a pretty damn good coach. He got the Warriors to a grand final (no mean feat when you look at where they are now)

They obviously go through peaks and troughs when it comes to footy spending, but at their strongest they are capable of putting very good teams on the field.

and he is responsible for one of the most overachieving sides (i.e the Panthers) in history. This Penrith side is definitely greater than the sum of its parts.

They have four blokes (To'o, Cleary, Kikau and Yeo) in the top twenty players in the game.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Very silly comment to say that non NRL coaches can’t have a valid opinion. By virtue of agreeing with the coach’s choices means you’re doing nothing different from me (your opinion just happens to align with the NRL coach’s).

The difference is when I disagree with a coaching decision (or just don't understand it) I realise it is most likely me that is wrong or ignorant. Pretty logical I'd say.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

If you say on the one hand that just because someone's selected in the 17 on game day doesn't make them a first grader, then surely on the other hand you'd have to admit that just because someone gets paid that doesn't make them a professional...?

I think for a profession like coaching, there is an oversupply of people qualified to do the work, so clubs can afford to be very picky. I'd say professionalism would be one of the primary filters used to discard applicants.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So take away the word "read"....

So it wasn't poor defence by Jake then... Are you seriously trying to gaslight the forum on that moment of the game, of all things?

I'd say it was more to do with his lack of speed compared to Cleary (who is very fast) than any defensive failing. Certainly not worth singling him out for. Cleary has made line breaks before (he made one against us in round nine actually) and I don't remember any witch hunt at the time.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I stand by that Blake dropping bombs was poor catching, and Arthur missing a tackle was poor defence. That's not blame. That's observation of key moments in the game.

Well since you're so observant you would know how many tackles our team missed last night. You'd also have observed that 34 of them were by players other than Jake Arthur yet curiously you only saw fit to report one of the missed tackles you observed.

 

[lucablight]

They obviously go through peaks and troughs when it comes to footy spending, but at their strongest they are capable of putting very good teams on the field.
They have four blokes (To'o, Cleary, Kikau and Yeo) in the top twenty players in the game.

The Warriors have made the finals (8th place) once since Cleary coached them to the grand final in 2011. When he was there they made the finals 4 times out of 6.
It’s debatable whether To’o and Kikau are part of the best 20 players in the game.

The difference is when I disagree with a coaching decision (or just don't understand it) I realise it is most likely me that is wrong or ignorant. Pretty logical I'd say.

Or you can’t think for yourself and don’t realise coaches are only human too and can also get it wrong. There are competent and incompetent people in walks of life and all professions. You’re very naive if you think a coach has never gotten it wrong.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We lead the Panthers for yardage gain at halftime 889m to 668m. By full time it as 1754m to 1338m. Edwards, Tago and May combined for 592 of those. Conversely only Sivo made more than 100m out of our back 5.

So the forwards did similar amounts of work?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The minutes from the ineffective injury cover utility, who we don't need taking up an option with our full strength side and their skills available...

Surely the point of having four forwards on the bench as options in games against strong packs is not that hard to understand, when the point is made here week in week out? Kind of like the point about the need to deviate from the game plan at some point as time ticks on, when it's clear the chosen game plan for that day isn't working.

The plan has been proven to suit our team. If it's not working the problem is the execution. Last night the specific execution problem was catching uncontested kicks.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Ray Price says Hi.

Hi Ray!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The Warriors have made the finals (8th place) once since Cleary coached them to the grand final in 2011. When he was there they made the finals 4 times out of 6.

They also made a grand final before he coached there, while he was their fullback actually.

It’s debatable whether To’o and Kikau are part of the best 20 players in the game.

Probably, but they are at least in the mix.

Or you can’t think for yourself and don’t realise coaches are only human too and can also get it wrong. There are competent and incompetent people in walks of life and all professions. You’re very naive if you think a coach has never gotten it wrong.

Of course they might be wrong. But on balance of probability, if an amateur disagrees with a professional it is the amateur who is wrong. Not every time, but certainly any given time. If we disagree with the coach we are probably wrong.

 

[lucablight]

So the forwards did similar amounts of work?

It’s kind of useless to compare just the numbers since a lot of the Panthers runs were made against a retreating defence when they had loads of possession. When the possession was even and it was a forwards battle we were actually on top. In comparison alot of the runs our forwards made were coming out of trouble against a rushing defensive line. Far more energy consuming. I was trying to illustrate the fact that a huge proportion of Panthers yardage comes from their backs whereas we are forward reliant so we don’t have as much energy to expend in defence.

 

[lucablight]

They also made a grand final before he coached there, while he was their fullback actually.

Probably, but they are at least in the mix.
Of course they might be wrong. But on balance of probability, if an amateur disagrees with a professional it is the amateur who is wrong. Not every time, but certainly any given time. If we disagree with the coach we are probably wrong.

You know who else made a grand final the year before the Warriors did when Ivan was their fullback? Does that have any link to what that team did 11 years later in 2012?
Who do you think is right if a huge sample size of people disagree with the work the professional is doing? (Eg the pundits and the media).

 

[Gronk]

Where are all the f**king apologists ? @Gronk @strider @JokerEel not real fans.

Sorry I missed the celebrations.

 

[eel01s]

The difference last night was not just Cleary's kicks, it was where he got to kick from.

Most of Cleary's bombs were from in our own half. We actually did put pressure on him a few times. In fact, the first one Blake dropped we did rush Cleary, but Blake did not even look like positioning himself correctly.

On the other hand, whilst Moses' kicking not only kept us in the game, but put pressure on Penrith, most of his kicks were from well within our own half. Of the attacking kicks he did put up, none were of the spiral type. Can he do spiral kicks ?

I think we missed our chance to get on the front foot whilst May was in the sin bin. In fact they scored against the run of play due to the dropped bomb.

 

[Jake the snake]

Sorry I missed the celebrations.

Too easy