West Coast Pirates Bid News

[Canard]

The 44k was a double header.

The two 59k games were for Origin.

You cannot say that a double header and two Origin games are representative of what a Perth-based NRL club can attract to its games over a season. The Reds averaged 13,390, 8,200 and 8,700 in their three seasons.

60k flocked to Stadium Australia to watch the San Diego Chargers play the Denver Broncos in 1999. It doesn't mean Sydney has 60k active gridiron fans.

PRO FOOTBALL; Australians Not Quick to Embrace Slow Pace of American Football (Published 1999)

Denver Broncos defeat San Diego Chargers, 20-17, in preseason game played in Sydney, Australia; Australian fans find American football a bit slow-paced; photo (M)

www.nytimes.com

That's not very impressive.

414,000 people in Brisbane watched this year's AwFuL grand final.

623,000 people in Brisbane watched the NRL grand final.

The average metro audience for Brisbane across the regular season was 111,000.

Perth pulled an average of 8,000 viewers.

I got this from Wookie's site:

Metro Audiences​

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• Sydney average 161,000
• Melbourne average 12,000
• Brisbane average 111,000
• Adelaide average 7,000
• Perth average 8,000

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In Melbourne the Storm average 33,000, and when the Storm arent playing the NRL averages 8,000.​

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In Brisbane, the Broncos average 170,000, the Dolphins average 126,000. Other Queensland regional teams average 131,000 on Nine, while matches involving no Queensland sides average 98,000.​

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In NSW, Sydney sides average 163,000 per game, while sides from regional NSW average 163,000 as well. Matches with no teams from NSW average 146,000.​

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The leading clubs on television during the season werre Brisbane, Sth Sydney, Penrith and Melbourne.​

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Brisbane were the dominant club on Nine averaging 620,000 viewers per game.​

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• Penrith 586,000
• Parramatta 569,000
• Sth Sydney 549,000
• Dolphins 521,000
• Melbourne 518,000
• Sydney 510,000

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Brisbane were also dominant on Foxtels set top box programming, averaging 288,000 per game​

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• Sth Sydney 270,000
• Melbourne 267,000
• Nth Queensland 259,000
• Penrith 257,000

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The Broncos ratings dominance continued despite a significant drop in free to air coverage – this is AFTER they dropped 4 games on FTA – Broncos matches on Nine dropped from 17 down to 13 this season. No Sunday FTA (2 last year, 0 this year), and 2 less Thursdays (down to 4). Fri (8) and Sat N (1) FTA remained the same.​

How many of these people will attend 12 NRL games over a season at Perth Rectangular Stadium to see the Pirates?



Now you sound like the soccer fans who predicted the A-League would grow to an enormous size due to the game's participation rate.



WA has 10 times as many people as the regions you're comparing them to.



You're ignoring the problem of Perth needing a team that follows the Melbourne Storm model for its first 20 years. To do that it will need to generate more revenue than the clubs you just mentioned.

This numpty just showed the value of having a local team and how it will help the TV ratings in both STV and FTA

He just successfully argued against his point.

PNG will never be the third most watched team on STV in Australia.

 

[Perth Red]

Supportive State Govt meaning what exactly for the proposed new NRL team?

How much money is the WA State Govt tipping in ?

What has been spent trying to attract East Coasters over to Perth to watch Origin and Doubleheaders wont help the Pirates going forward …

We dont know yet. We don’t know what they’re offering or what nrl is demanding. All we have confirmed so far is $1/2 mill to write the business case and words of strong support from our premier. What that translates into only they and the nrl know what’s been put on the table.

general consensus is a new hbf park west stand, a centre of excellence for the game/club and some financial support for jnrs is what it should be.

not sure what you mean by the last bit. The two aren’t really related, wa govt pays millions for RL events to get sports tourists to visit perth.

 

[Bukowski]

This numpty just showed the value of having a local team and how it will help the TV ratings in both STV and FTA

He just successfully argued against his point.

PNG will never be the third most watched team on STV in Australia.

He regularly does that.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No idea why you are comparing perth to sydney, very different cities, number of teams, main sport interests etc.

number of players by club region is very relevant in this debate. You can’t say perth doesn’t have enough players theNnSay somewhere like canterbury with less players is fine. it’s hypocritical.

perth doesn’t need to be sydney, or brisbane when it comes to nrl.

nor is it melbourne in 1998. The reality is rugby league has always been bigger in perth than melbourne. The game overall is bigger now than on 1998.
Clubs are getting $5mill over cap now compared to cap being bigger than grant in 1999. The stark reality is introduction of Storm in 1998 has zero relevance to the introduction of a perth team 30 years later.

only needs 15k avg to attend hbf park looking at souths fan based revenue. That is very doable. In fact I’ll be dissapointed if we don’t easily avg more than that.

there are at least 30-40k active rugby league fans here. Convert 20k of them to rusted on perth Rl club fans and the club is sorted.

There were 8,700 active rugby league fans in Perth when the Reds were axed.

Are you trying to tell me that Perth's active RL fanbase has risen by 344-459%?

Hasn't the participation rate dropped by 60% over this period?

 

[Bukowski]

The crushers averaged 7k in their last season. Looks like we can rule out another Sth Qld team for expansion.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

does it matter? national ratings are what are taken into account, not local. A ninth game involving Perth will still draw solid national ratings, just because it's NRL.

Did you not see the comments I was responding to?

The posters said everyone in Perth who watches RL does so via Foxtel/Kayo. I asked them to prove it. They failed to substantiate their claim. So yes, it does matter.

One of these posters believes a Perth-based team will draw an average of 25k fans to its home games. He also said rugby league is "enormous" in Perth. There's nothing enormous about the amount of people in Perth watching RL on 9Gem or playing for a local team.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The donkey thinks no one would watch a Perth v Broncos match.
He's a backward twit.

You make up shit like this whenever you're confronted with facts that aren't favourable to Perth.

I recall you saying RL is "enormous" in Perth and will have 25k attending their games. Not even @Perth Red is that delusional. You're just a special kind of stupid.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yeh haven’t watched nrl on gem since about 2003 when it was on at midnight, if the golf wasnt on lol

9Gem wasn't around in 2003.

 

[Bukowski]

Show me where I said enormous or claimed 25k crowds

 

[BuffaloRules]

We dont know yet. We don’t know what they’re offering or what nrl is demanding. All we have confirmed so far is $1/2 mill to write the business case and words of strong support from our premier. What that translates into only they and the nrl know what’s been put on the table.

general consensus is a new hbf park west stand, a centre of excellence for the game/club and some financial support for jnrs is what it should be.

not sure what you mean by the last bit. The two aren’t really related, wa govt pays millions for RL events to get sports tourists to visit perth.

You don’t know but it’s on your list?

If the State Govt provided some guarantees about money for COE and say jersey ”sponsorship” for the first 5 years or so it might help them get the nod …

 

[Perth Red]

There were 8,700 active rugby league fans in Perth when the Reds were axed.

Are you trying to tell me that Perth's active RL fanbase has risen by 344-459%?

Hasn't the participation rate dropped by 60% over this period?

25 years ago in the middle of a Superleague war when perth had half its current population and the news of its demise was already out. Once again it’s irrelevant to today. Even with all that still better crowds than some so called heartland teams lol

Todays facts: there are 34k playing rugby league formats in WA, 40-60k who are willing To pay good money to attend big rl events, regular crowds of over 15km at hbf featuring two neutral teams for most fans who attend.

Yep we got this.

 

[Perth Red]

Did you not see the comments I was responding to?

The posters said everyone in Perth who watches RL does so via Foxtel/Kayo. I asked them to prove it. They failed to substantiate their claim. So yes, it does matter.

One of these posters believes a Perth-based team will draw an average of 25k fans to its home games. He also said rugby league is "enormous" in Perth. There's nothing enormous about the amount of people in Perth watching RL on 9Gem or playing for a local team.

Whose said any of those things?

ina 20k capacity stadium it’d be something special to avg 25k crowds lol

no one has said rl is enormous in perth, never will be, doesn’t have to be.

but yes I do believe the majority of people that watch nrl watch it on fox or kayo here.

 

[Perth Red]

You don’t know but it’s on your list?

If the State Govt provided some guarantees about money for COE and say jersey ”sponsorship” for the first 5 years or so it might help them get the nod …

Yep I don’t know, no one does outside of govt, and hopefully nrl. The ‘wishlist’ is what’s been mentioned numerous times in commentary on here and elsewhere of things that would really help a new nrl club here and that would be within Govt spending remits,

they won’t offer cash to the team, would cause far too much angst for them from other sports. They got badly burnt ’sponsoring‘ the Force. They shouldn’t need to.
Cheap rent for hbf is certainly they could do though.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Whose said any of those things?

ina 20k capacity stadium it’d be something special to avg 25k crowds lol

Tell that to your mate @Bukowski.

So seeing as league is miles ahead of union in Perth then I'd say averaging 20k plus in its first year is likely.

I said over 20k in its first year is possible.

That's why I said they may need to play their first season at Optus. League shits all over your boring union game.

no one has said rl is enormous in perth, never will be, doesn’t have to be.

You reckon it has 30-40k active RL fans.

but yes I do believe the majority of people that watch nrl watch it on fox or kayo here.

How many people in Perth would you estimate are watchingNRL on Kayo/Foxtel?

It couldn't be more than 10-20k.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

25 years ago in the middle of a Superleague war when perth had half its current population and the news of its demise was already out.

You're always making excuses for Perth's shortcomings. When it comes to Sydney and Brisbane you're extremely critical and set BS standards for their teams to meet. I remember you saying Brisbane 2 needed to generate as much revenue as the Broncos. Now you're saying Perth will be fine with a club that's no bigger than the Cronulla Sharks.

Once again it’s irrelevant to today. Even with all that still better crowds than some so called heartland teams lol

Todays facts: there are 34k playing rugby league formats in WA, 40-60k who are willing To pay good money to attend big rl events, regular crowds of over 15km at hbf featuring two neutral teams for most fans who attend.

Yep we got this.

Only 4k rugby league players.

Western Australians are fickle and only support winners.

Look at the television ratings for the Eagles and Dockers in Perth over the last couple of years.

In Perth, the city FTA average for 2022 was 73,000. Matches involving Fremantle drew 96,000 viewers on average, while West Coast averaged 95,000. The WA sides finished 11th and 14th in the overall team viewing ratings for the season.

2022 AFL TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU

State Leagues The growth in the AFL’s digital footprint was well received by fans, with an average of 5000 weekly users streaming VFL matches and a further 2000 average users live streaming WAFL matches. Viewership for the WAFL competition in 2022 attracted nearly 750,000 people across the...

www.footyindustry.com

In Perth, West Coast matches averaged 74,000 – down 22% – while Fremantle games fared worse – down 28% YoY and averaged 69,000. The Western Derby rated 155,000 and 154,000. Games involving neither Perth side averaged 45,000.

State of the Game 2023: AFL Attendance, Social Media, Support, Participation, Memberships and TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU

After a record breaking season and a huge grand final, its time to wrap up the season with a nice big bow, with new records set in Membership, Attendance and tv ratings. Social Media Collingwood leads all comers in the social media stakes with 390,000 followers on facebook, 368,000 followers on...

www.footyindustry.com

Compare that to the support for RL in Brisbane.

In Brisbane, the Broncos average 170,000, the Dolphins average 126,000. Other Queensland regional teams average 131,000 on Nine, while matches involving no Queensland sides average 98,000.​

All up, the combined average for the four Queensland NRL clubs draw 558,000 viewers in Brisbane.

An aggregate of 191,000 people in Perth tuned in to watch the Eagles and Dockers on Ch7. In Brisbane, an aggregate of 296,000 tuned in to watch the Broncos and Dolphins on Ch9. It would be fair to assume rugby league fans in Brisbane are more likely than fumbleball fans in Perth to have a Foxtel/Kayo subscription because all Eagles and Dockers games are broadcast into Perth on Ch7.

The Broncos haven't won anything since 2006, yet they're always the most watched team in the NRL. They were still strongly followed in the year they got the spoon.

The Eagles had been successful until recently, yet they're well down the list.

The broadcasters and ARLC will be aware of these ratings. It will work against Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

Tell that to your mate @Bukowski.

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You reckon it has 30-40k active RL fans.



How many people in Perth would you estimate are watchingNRL on Kayo/Foxtel?

It couldn't be more than 10-20k.

30-40k fans of a sport isn’t enormous lol. it’s a good start and a solid foundation to build from. Getting half them to hbf every game is a big step in viability.

id say 20-30k. But again impossible to know as fox don’t release data. we know 100k plus tune in when game is on fta only and it’s on ch9 not gem.

 

[Perth Red]

You're always making excuses for Perth's shortcomings. When it comes to Sydney and Brisbane you're extremely critical and set BS standards for their teams to meet. I remember you saying Brisbane 2 needed to generate as much revenue as the Broncos. Now you're saying Perth will be fine with a club that's no bigger than the Cronulla Sharks.



Only 4k rugby league players.

Western Australians are fickle and only support winners.

Look at the television ratings for the Eagles and Dockers in Perth over the last couple of years.

In Perth, the city FTA average for 2022 was 73,000. Matches involving Fremantle drew 96,000 viewers on average, while West Coast averaged 95,000. The WA sides finished 11th and 14th in the overall team viewing ratings for the season.​

​

2022 AFL TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU

State Leagues The growth in the AFL’s digital footprint was well received by fans, with an average of 5000 weekly users streaming VFL matches and a further 2000 average users live streaming WAFL matches. Viewership for the WAFL competition in 2022 attracted nearly 750,000 people across the...

www.footyindustry.com

​

In Perth, West Coast matches averaged 74,000 – down 22% – while Fremantle games fared worse – down 28% YoY and averaged 69,000. The Western Derby rated 155,000 and 154,000. Games involving neither Perth side averaged 45,000.​

​

State of the Game 2023: AFL Attendance, Social Media, Support, Participation, Memberships and TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU

After a record breaking season and a huge grand final, its time to wrap up the season with a nice big bow, with new records set in Membership, Attendance and tv ratings. Social Media Collingwood leads all comers in the social media stakes with 390,000 followers on facebook, 368,000 followers on...

www.footyindustry.com

Compare that to the support for RL in Brisbane.

In Brisbane, the Broncos average 170,000, the Dolphins average 126,000. Other Queensland regional teams average 131,000 on Nine, while matches involving no Queensland sides average 98,000.​

All up, the combined average for the four Queensland NRL clubs draw 558,000 viewers in Brisbane.

An aggregate of 191,000 people in Perth tuned in to watch the Eagles and Dockers on Ch7. In Brisbane, an aggregate of 296,000 tuned in to watch the Broncos and Dolphins on Ch9. It would be fair to assume rugby league fans in Brisbane are more likely than fumbleball fans in Perth to have a Foxtel/Kayo subscription because all Eagles and Dockers games are broadcast into Perth on Ch7.

The Broncos haven't won anything since 2006, yet they're always the most watched team in the NRL. They were still strongly followed in the year they got the spoon.

The Eagles had been successful until recently, yet they're well down the list.

The broadcasters and ARLC will be aware of these ratings. It will work against Perth.

Perth isnt competing with another RL club in the city, dolphins are.

I’ve shown you the data of what clubs are currently generating in revenue that is making them profitable. It’s very doable for a Perth club.

34k rugby league players in total across different rl foms. besides thers more soccer and netball players in Sydney than rugby league players so again not sure what point you’re trying to make?

How’s that any different to anywhere? Not like tigers, dragons or warriors were killing crowds when losing is it?

no idea what so ever why your comparing afl tv Audience in perth to nrl tv audience in brisbane. There’s probably some point your trying to make lol
eagles avgd 10k more to games than Broncos and have three times the membership despite the two clubs form, dockers 17k avg. ore than dolphins. Maybe perth people just prefer to leave the house and follow our clubs more actively? lol

Melbourne continue to be one of the most watched nrl teams on tv, despite their low melbourne audience. Go figure.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

id say 20-30k. But again impossible to know as fox don’t release data. we know 100k plus tune in when game is on fta only and it’s on ch9 not gem.

Why did you say "on fta only and it’s on ch9 not gem"?

Are you trying to hide the fact Perth can only get 100k people to tune in to Ch9 to watch the NRL GF and Origin?

These events are as big as the Melbourne Cup. They deserve more viewers than what Perth can provide.

414,000 people in Brisbane tuned in to watch the AwFuL GF. Queenslanders are more passionate about sport than the whingers from the west.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Perth isnt competing with another RL club in the city, dolphins are.

Perth will be competing with 16 NRL clubs from eastern Australia for talent that's produced in eastern Australia. That's much harder than the Dolphins competing with the Broncos in Brisbane.

Gilbert left the Cowboys for the Dolphins because he wanted to be close to home.

A Perth-based team will only attract unwanted players. The only marquees they will get are hasbeens on inflated contracts.

I’ve shown you the data of what clubs are currently generating in revenue that is making them profitable. It’s very doable for a Perth club.

I know what the clubs are generating. I've read the annual reports. I made a post about it last year.

A Perth-based team will need to spend like the Melbourne Storm to carve out a niche in a hostile fumbleball market. If it operates on a small budget then it will end up like the Melbourne Rebels. Spin it all you like, but the Storm spent more than every club bar the Broncos to carve out a niche in Melbourne. You've deluded yourself into thinking a Perth-based team can operate on Cronulla's budget and still draw similar support to the Storm.

Lack of juniors and tyranny of distance will work against a Perth-based team in the player market. It'll have to pay overs to lure players west.

34k rugby league players in total across different rl foms.

Touch football isn't rugby league.

Western Australia only has 4k players competing in rugby league competitions.

besides thers more soccer and netball players in Sydney than rugby league players so again not sure what point you’re trying to make?

Soccer and netball aren't dangerous contact sports like rugby league.

How’s that any different to anywhere? Not like tigers, dragons or warriors were killing crowds when losing is it?

Perth won't have pokies to bail them out. If they're not making enough from football operations then they'll end up like the Titans.

no idea what so ever why your comparing afl tv Audience in perth to nrl tv audience in brisbane. There’s probably some point your trying to make lol
eagles avgd 10k more to games than Broncos and have three times the membership despite the two clubs form, dockers 17k avg. ore than dolphins. Maybe perth people just prefer to leave the house and follow our clubs more actively? lol

I brought it up because you're always going on about the Eagles being the biggest club in the country. The ratings don't support your claim.

If the Eagles are so well supported then why are do their games draw lower ratings in Perth than NRL games in Brisbane that don't feature Queensland teams?

You do realise that Brisbane (15,842 km2) is more than twice the size of Perth (6,417.9 km2), right?

Not everyone can get to Lang Park.

Melbourne continue to be one of the most watched nrl teams on tv, despite their low melbourne audience. Go figure.

They've got a large fanbase in SEQ. That's something a Perth-based team will never have.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Yep I don’t know, no one does outside of govt, and hopefully nrl. The ‘wishlist’ is what’s been mentioned numerous times in commentary on here and elsewhere of things that would really help a new nrl club here and that would be within Govt spending remits,

they won’t offer cash to the team, would cause far too much angst for them from other sports. They got badly burnt ’sponsoring‘ the Force. They shouldn’t need to.
Cheap rent for hbf is certainly they could do though.

What’s the relevance of the Force… we are talking about a successful sporting competition here with several other options for expansion … the Perth NRL bid is competing with other bids … the Force had a walk up start into that 2nd rate comp…unlike a potential bid for the NRL …

It’s like the WA Govt is just gunna sit on their bums waiting to be asked to go to the school formal…..

PVL loves money… so if you don’t want to show him the green then enjoy the wait