Where to from here?

[KeepingTheFaith]

Did the woman bashing prick call him on WTF Kata is doing there then? Or are obvious mistakes less important than non obvious ones?

It all seems a bit fishy for me, if it's about off field stuff then say that, if it's about on field then don't pretend just because we're only fans and not the team coaches that we can't see how other players are going.

All the top 3 or 4 lines just appears to be covering his own ass.

If the want to sort out the coach give Dave Rennie a call, he'll tell you how to turn a team around (without f**king everything else up in the process).

Man the Warriors make me angry ... it's probably unhealthy. ;-)

It's not off field stuff, it seems to be off the ball things that he's just not doing. Cappy said Konnie had been working hard on his weaknesses and his fitness was getting to where they want it, but now they have to work on the more technical aspects and get those down.

Kata wasn't mentioned by name, but it was roughly covered in the mention of our inexperienced back line. Basically they were banking on Laumape/Fish being first choice and a combination of injury/suspension/form left them with little option but to play youngsters together and they definitely need more experience around them etc.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11494491

 

[JJ]

Cappy said Konnie had been working hard on his weaknesses and his fitness was getting to where they want it, but now they have to work on the more technical aspects and get those down.

.

Begs the question, does Hurrell really have more issues than Kata? All very well highlight obscure bits of footage where he doesn't chase etc - but Kata is almost guaranteed points for the opposition at the moment - I really worry that his confidence will be shot for some time - these guys are flat out embarrassing him (I know there's a system and backrowers are missing) but he's the one being worked over (and Townsend)

 

[Iafeta]

While I admire Cappy for his honesty, I mean seriously, that took some nuts to come out with that interview... I have a few issues...

1) If Matt Elliott identified it upon arrival, and we've gone through him, and we're basically about to embark on season 4 after old mate McClennan left, why should I feel the culture is being addressed in season 4 post Bluey, if it hasn't been addressed in seasons 1-3 when internally these blokes were supposedly well aware of it?
2) Where was Wayne Scurrah and the Board to hold Dean Bell and indeed Wayne Scurrah and the coaching team to account for how the players were prepared? Who was evaluating the perform of Carl Jennings... in actual fact, it can't be Jennings, because Cappy seems to infer this happened through the McClennan era and Jennings was an Elliott bloke. Jim Doyle is a great leader, no doubt, but, I feel the Warriors board needs to have stronger football acumen on it
3) It seemed to point out a number of issues, notably that the NYC approach doesn't work. And I agree, I mean only Ben Matulino and Shaun Johnson are capable of consistent domination (and even then they turn it on and off like a tap) despite all the NYC premierships. My question remains, how on earth can you just change that thinking to be successful in executing an alternate strategy? From what I hear, the Auckland league comp doesn't prepare the guys well. That would require enormous investment to change that (coaching development, academies, infrastructure etc). Secondly, to pick up Australian imports of quality, you generally will pay overs to attract them. How will we ensure we are cap compliant if we do get the right quality? From a market economy perspective I don't see anything to suggest this is being overcome, aside from relying on RTS and Luke continuing to be super talents.
4) Why is Iro back if during his time with Brian McClennan he did nothing to change it and from what I heard was knifing him the entire time he was there anyway.

Now, I think in fairness, the likes of Scurrah, Bell, McClennan should have a right of reply if they think things were different to how McFadden has explained them. If its not different, they should be hung out to dry as incompetent charlatans.

FWIW, I had an inside channel into getting feedback from Maloney while he was at the Warriors. He considered Bluey an absolute joke. He said the guy's only strategy was to basically give a hyped up motivational speech, a blokes bloke type approach, and that there was no fundamental gameplan whatsoever. Infact, in a couple of situations in half time debriefs, the players asked what the plan was because they felt they were getting nothing from McClennan. IIRC, 2012 is about the time Feleti Mateo and a number of other players went severely downhill, and I would not be surprised if the culture they were suddenly apart of caused the likes of Lewis Brown and Elijah Taylor to follow uncle Ivan knowing their careers were at risk of being torn asunder by mediocrity.

 

[jaseg]

3) It seemed to point out a number of issues, notably that the NYC approach doesn't work. And I agree, I mean only Ben Matulino and Shaun Johnson are capable of consistent domination (and even then they turn it on and off like a tap) despite all the NYC premierships. My question remains, how on earth can you just change that thinking to be successful in executing an alternate strategy? From what I hear, the Auckland league comp doesn't prepare the guys well. That would require enormous investment to change that (coaching development, academies, infrastructure etc). Secondly, to pick up Australian imports of quality, you generally will pay overs to attract them. How will we ensure we are cap compliant if we do get the right quality? From a market economy perspective I don't see anything to suggest this is being overcome, aside from relying on RTS and Luke continuing to be super talents.

That's generally true - although NRL recruitment is far from an efficient market. Right now there's still some quality in the market, a few players there who don't look like being offered much/anything by the NRL clubs - they aren't going to have many options so any overs would be fairly minimal.

I already mentioned Scott Bolton, I also mentioned 2 younger guys but if it's experience in the outside backs they're looking for then David Simmons or Ryan Morgan could be worth a punt. Will Hopoate might just become available too, though I'm not really sure about that guy.. frankly he still costs too much. The other two are very much in the "another Jono Wright" - from the article - type, however (Simmons being significantly better - possibly Morgan to a lesser degree also).

In terms of quality (in the future), targeting former Warriors (or just Kiwis like RTS/Luke) who have kicked on at Sydney clubs might be an option... when does Taukeiaho come off contract?

 

[Sanchez]

Just for bad memorys sake, what is the full list of 11?

 

[Penrose_11]

Friend, Tomkins, Laumape, Peyroux, Townsend, Rapira, Matagi all 100% gone. Pretty sure there's been a lot of talk that Ika and Havali have signed elsewhere. Those 2 unconfirmed though.

 

[Blair]

...IIRC, 2012 is about the time Feleti Mateo and a number of other players went severely downhill, and I would not be surprised if the culture they were suddenly apart of caused the likes of Lewis Brown and Elijah Taylor to follow uncle Ivan knowing their careers were at risk of being torn asunder by mediocrity.

A good post, I thought this last part was a bit ironic. Brown has ran off to Manly meanwhile Cleary and Taylor were near tears today at a presser facing up to the reality their season is over. They're well behind us on the points table, for all our wetchedness, and their professionalism. Injuries were about par at both clubs.

 

[Iafeta]

A good post, I thought this last part was a bit ironic. Brown has ran off to Manly meanwhile Cleary and Taylor were near tears today at a presser facing up to the reality their season is over. They're well behind us on the points table, for all our wetchedness, and their professionalism. Injuries were about par at both clubs.

Taylor hasn't kicked on IMO. His defence is always very good, but he hasn't kicked on with his offence.

Friend, Tomkins, Laumape, Peyroux, Townsend, Rapira, Matagi all 100% gone. Pretty sure there's been a lot of talk that Ika and Havali have signed elsewhere. Those 2 unconfirmed though.

Sione Lousi is another one I've heard is being forced out. Glen Fisiiahi I believe is the other, I hear he'll be playing union. Suggests to me that the Warriors will take up their option on RFM.

 

[playdaball]

Friend, Tomkins, Laumape, Peyroux, Townsend, Rapira, Matagi all 100% gone. Pretty sure there's been a lot of talk that Ika and Havali have signed elsewhere. Those 2 unconfirmed though.

Havalli to SGI
Abbey to CB

Question marks over;
Fish - injuries?
Louisi - will never be a regular 1st grader at the Warriors
Lino - not really up to it?
Palavi - see Louisi
Bhana- As above

It could be a bigger reshuffle than the 14 players from Manly but to date only 3 signed plus two juniors.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Friend, Tomkins, Laumape, Peyroux, Townsend, Rapira, Matagi all 100% gone. Pretty sure there's been a lot of talk that Ika and Havali have signed elsewhere. Those 2 unconfirmed though.

Havilli is confirmed with the Dragons isn't he?

Ikahihifo will definitely go.

Fish will be gone IMO.

Warriors keen to offload Lousi/Allwood

Abbey also gone. Didn't we panic when other teams were sniffing around and upgrade him to a top 25 for this year or something? Another Bell masterstroke.

Bhana/Palavi unwanted

 

[vvvrulz]

FWIW, I had an inside channel into getting feedback from Maloney while he was at the Warriors. He considered Bluey an absolute joke. He said the guy's only strategy was to basically give a hyped up motivational speech, a blokes bloke type approach, and that there was no fundamental gameplan whatsoever. Infact, in a couple of situations in half time debriefs, the players asked what the plan was because they felt they were getting nothing from McClennan. .

I remember someone mentioning that Michael Luck got pretty pissed off about the casual attitude on defence. Seems that Bluey wanted to encourage the boys to play ad-lib and wing it. I can see why he'd try that, the Cleary naysayers would say that he stopped us from playing our natural game and was too insistent on structure. To a degree that's right, but what a spectacular failure this plan was... throwing away all that foundation was the worst idea.

I don't know how he lost the dressing room, I thought given that he's one of the boys he'd at least have that.

 

[Penrose_11]

Interesting that Bluey is coaching the Mt Albert U15 team in next weeks Auckland age grade GF. I wonder if he still add libs on D or if hes put a bit more structure in his game?

 

[JJ]

I remember someone mentioning that Michael Luck got pretty pissed off about the casual attitude on defence. Seems that Bluey wanted to encourage the boys to play ad-lib and wing it. I can see why he'd try that, the Cleary naysayers would say that he stopped us from playing our natural game and was too insistent on structure. To a degree that's right, but what a spectacular failure this plan was... throwing away all that foundation was the worst idea.

I don't know how he lost the dressing room, I thought given that he's one of the boys he'd at least have that.

Not sure that "one of the boys" and stirring emotional talks can last the season tbh - especially in the NRL - which for the most part is about structure and making sure your worst games are not that bad... I know nothing about the dressing room situation, but hard to imagine decent pros like Luck, Mannering, Maloney, Lillyman would respond well

Kind of the Graeme Lowe thing - that bullshit is fine for one offs, tests, origins, and the Super League - but he had some pretty good Manly sides and achieved f**k all because you can't rely on that emotional shit every week.

ANyway, on topic - has to be "in Jim we trust" at the moment - and I trust he's considering all options, if not then he's not right either - if he supports McFadden then all good, and I have to hope they'll make the changes

Does worry me that McFadden is still trying to blame McLennan though - both he and Tomkins airing laundry doesn't sit well with me. Sure McLennan was a disaster, but Elliott has been a disaster wherever he's been too, and McFadden rode his coat tails

 

[Skinner]

Not sure that "one of the boys" and stirring emotional talks can last the season tbh - especially in the NRL - which for the most part is about structure and making sure your worst games are not that bad... I know nothing about the dressing room situation, but hard to imagine decent pros like Luck, Mannering, Maloney, Lillyman would respond well

Kind of the Graeme Lowe thing - that bullshit is fine for one offs, tests, origins, and the Super League - but he had some pretty good Manly sides and achieved f**k all because you can't rely on that emotional shit every week.

ANyway, on topic - has to be "in Jim we trust" at the moment - and I trust he's considering all options, if not then he's not right either - if he supports McFadden then all good, and I have to hope they'll make the changes

Does worry me that McFadden is still trying to blame McLennan though - both he and Tomkins airing laundry doesn't sit well with me. Sure McLennan was a disaster, but Elliott has been a disaster wherever he's been too, and McFadden rode his coat tails

I really can't disagree with any of this. I still, at this point anyway, have faith in Jim and I'm not really about to write Cappy off. I think at this stage there are no real other options around. I can't see Desi leaping at the job, Toovey has failed in his last role, and I think that the rest of the usual suspects, Bellamy etc, have made it clear they are not interested.

While I was one of Ivan's critics, I would probably be very happy for him to be back there. Loved his honesty in the presser after their game against the Eels - to Elijah Taylor's great discomfort.

 

[ozbash]

I remember someone mentioning that Michael Luck got pretty pissed off about the casual attitude on defence. Seems that Bluey wanted to encourage the boys to play ad-lib and wing it. I can see why he'd try that, the Cleary naysayers would say that he stopped us from playing our natural game and was too insistent on structure. To a degree that's right, but what a spectacular failure this plan was... throwing away all that foundation was the worst idea.

I don't know how he lost the dressing room, I thought given that he's one of the boys he'd at least have that.

I wonder if the team was responsible for a lot of the crap some of our coaches wear..

Bluey certainly "had the dressing room" in England and with the Kiwis. .

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The great coaches in the NRL don't use excuses. The Bennetts the Bellamys even the Hansens complain about something now and then to aid their side, but they don't make excuses. It's really unprofessional for McFadden to be throwing Bluey under the bus. That is now 3 clear years ago, and McFadden has now been part of the club and the culture for 2 of them. All he's doing is possibly creating an environment of excuses and a vacumn where we only perform when everyone is fit and there's zero distractions.

I don't care how many players are out, we fielded a side on Saturday and against the Sharks that should have been expected to win, or at least compete on Saturday. The other side lost their playmaker on Saturday, did they make excuses? Did they f**k. The Sharks have Robson and Bird in their halves, possibly the worst in the comp. Did they concede they have no chance? They're bloody 5th, with an inferior squad. Even Doyle tipping into that disappointed me. I believe we have a lot of short-cutters in our squad and that only enables them. Same with Tomkins although what does he care past September.

I've always been suspect about this sort of thing but I also believe we lack a strong Maori/Polynesian leader. When Ruben was here, the young guys looked up to him and his immense work rate, and by f**k they didn't want to let him down. I don't see that here at all. Rapira checked out years ago and encourages rookie props who post 'f**k the haters' images on insta (surprised no one saw that). Ben is a great player but he's not one inch a leader really, or looks like he wants to be. Fortunately I believe we'll have that in Luke, and even RTS as out-and-out pros. We'll need to because there's a group - Fish, Hurrell, Havili, Gubb and others - who have coasted in their own clique and not become anywhere near the footballers they should be.

I've got a million other thoughts but that's a start. Last time I was this demoralised we lost 62-6, then at least we barred up and won the next 5. So don't tell me the culture was still f**ked even then Mr McFadden.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

And if anyone is going to be blamed for where we are today, it's Wayne Scurrah. Any success he can point to at our club revolves around Ivan Cleary (not brought to the club by Scurrah, appointed as a successor to Tony Kemp so a simple decision) and selling f*cking jerseys.

He binned Cleary after an unprecedented level of success in the club's history, with John Hart basically imploring him not to with the promise the Warriors would deeply regret it. He then apppointed a man completely not up to the job, with a strong stench of having done it because that's what Joe Talkback and Joe SouthStand wanted. I don't blame Bluey for not being up to it. If someone appoints me as prime minister tomorrow, it's not my fault if I run the country into the ground. 100% Scurrah's fault, and maybe the Board's for ratifying it. A lot of people used to bag John Hart for not being a league man but he knew quality when he saw it, and I guarantee he would never have gone for Bluey as an NRL coach.

Then as his final trick, he appoints Matt Elliott - having, from memory, completely rejected any notion that he should be considered. We got the bluster from the owners about appointing a world-class coach and being the pre-eminent club in the Southern Hemisphere (which we all knew would turn out to be bullshit) then got a man who has never won an NRL finals match in about 7-8 seasons of trying. And pumped it up as a triumph. Can't remember whether Scurrah then fired Elliott and appointed McFadden.

So yeah, there shouldn't be any targets or excuses but if there was, Wayne's your man.

 

[Sanchez]

All this stuff coming out now makes me admire guys like Luck even more now than I did before

 

[ozbash]

The great coaches in the NRL don't use excuses. The Bennetts the Bellamys even the Hansens complain about something now and then to aid their side, but they don't make excuses. It's really unprofessional for McFadden to be throwing Bluey under the bus. That is now 3 clear years ago, and McFadden has now been part of the club and the culture for 2 of them. All he's doing is possibly creating an environment of excuses and a vacumn where we only perform when everyone is fit and there's zero distractions.

I don't care how many players are out, we fielded a side on Saturday and against the Sharks that should have been expected to win, or at least compete on Saturday. The other side lost their playmaker on Saturday, did they make excuses? Did they f**k. The Sharks have Robson and Bird in their halves, possibly the worst in the comp. Did they concede they have no chance? They're bloody 5th, with an inferior squad. Even Doyle tipping into that disappointed me. I believe we have a lot of short-cutters in our squad and that only enables them. Same with Tomkins although what does he care past September.

I've always been suspect about this sort of thing but I also believe we lack a strong Maori/Polynesian leader. When Ruben was here, the young guys looked up to him and his immense work rate, and by f**k they didn't want to let him down. I don't see that here at all. Rapira checked out years ago and encourages rookie props who post 'f**k the haters' images on insta (surprised no one saw that). Ben is a great player but he's not one inch a leader really, or looks like he wants to be. Fortunately I believe we'll have that in Luke, and even RTS as out-and-out pros. We'll need to because there's a group - Fish, Hurrell, Havili, Gubb and others - who have coasted in their own clique and not become anywhere near the footballers they should be.

I've got a million other thoughts but that's a start. Last time I was this demoralised we lost 62-6, then at least we barred up and won the next 5. So don't tell me the culture was still f**ked even then Mr McFadden.

Probably the best thing I've read on this forum..