Who replaces Cappy?

[Marty]

Sure, agree to disagree...but the Kiwis are the best team on the planet now at the moment so certainly our rep players are no worse than the Australian rep players...

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Our reps would be the equal of most teams, no argument there, but I think the drop off between our reps and our other players is larger than the other teams and that's where I see our biggest concerns and weaknesses on paper.

Broncos for example probably have about 9 reps, but then you look at the guys who aren't included - Milford, Oates, Roberts, McCulloch etc

The Roosters have an entire rep pack (guys in their prime too), future reps off the bench and the only odd one out is Friend who is stuck behind Smith as the only real reason he isn't a rep too.

Compare that to Robson, Ayshford, Wright and even our 50/50 some good and some bad Kata/Hurrell/Fusitua types and that's where I see the issue.

Reynolds, Friend, Munster, Granville, Coote, Hastings, Napa, Evans etc So many guys who are either future reps or don't currently have reps because of great players in front of them rather than anything inferior about them.

 

[jaseg]

Sure, agree to disagree...but the Kiwis are the best team on the planet now at the moment so certainly our rep players are no worse than the Australian rep players...

Were they the best on the planet when the likes of Ben Henry or Tuimoala Lolohea played for them?

Or to put it another way, would either player have a chance in hell at making an Australian (or even just Origin) team?

Kiwis depth is building, but it's still not there yet in certain areas. That's the only reason either of the two mentioned have played at that level - it sure isn't because they were good enough at the time.

In any case, our issue isn't with the rep players, it's the balance of those players in the squad. In particular, the centres struggle to defend - our edges were always going to be a major issue this year.. go to posts/threads before the season had started and quite a few people were expressing concern RE the edge defence and how badly it would cost us this year. Predictable. We also have a very young middle, once you take out the starters (or the guys who should be starting anyway.. *cough* Matulino).

 

[Marty]

Hence why I said 10-12 if you wanted to throw in Ben and Tui...they are certainly rep players of the future though...tui is and ben would be if he could ever get over the injuries...

Sure the edges are a problem...but isnt that a symptom of poor coaching more than anything else? Wanna bet that you put Jordan Kahu and James Roberts in the warriors and our edge defence still looks poor?

Some of our middle forwards are very young...but many teams have young middle forwards off the bench who go alright. Our young middle forwards don't lack for heart, ability or talent compared to other teams young middle forwards...just coaching. Case in point Sio Siua Taukeiaho leaves the Warriors and goes on to be a more than capable forward. Sam lisone would thrive in other teams...Vete and Meat Axe Gubb probably not so much though...

 

[Mr Angry]

I love all Stacey Jones.

Ivan can be in charge of recruitment and operations.

Vote Stacey.

 

[jaseg]

Hence why I said 10-12 if you wanted to throw in Ben and Tui...they are certainly rep players of the future though...tui is and ben would be if he could ever get over the injuries...

Sure the edges are a problem...but isnt that a symptom of poor coaching more than anything else? Wanna bet that you put Jordan Kahu and James Roberts in the warriors and our edge defence still looks poor?

Some of our middle forwards are very young...but many teams have young middle forwards off the bench who go alright. Our young middle forwards don't lack for heart, ability or talent compared to other teams young middle forwards...just coaching. Case in point Sio Siua Taukeiaho leaves the Warriors and goes on to be a more than capable forward. Sam lisone would thrive in other teams...Vete and Meat Axe Gubb probably not so much though...

Who are the 10, then? By my count if you're not counting Lolohea or Henry (or Ali, because common sense) that makes 6 (edit: make that 7) NZ internationals (two of whom both play best in the same position - hooker), 1 Australian rep and 1 QLD rep - and both Aussies in that list have noticeably started to decline.

I agree that (to a degree) edge issues are a symptom of coaching (and I have had an issue with Cappy for some time, since it's been evident he is unwilling or incapable of making the necessary calls)... but by no means totally. There's no magic potion for a player who fundamentally can't defend - coaching them only goes to a point, at some point you need better cattle to work with... just look at Bennett in Newcastle.

Vete I think you're underselling - both he and Lisone will be big at any club (including ours), just give them time to develop. Neither is the finished product right now - Vete's progress has been slower, Lisone a little less so. As for the other clubs comment... how many successful clubs use a bench with no forward replacements having more than 50 NRL games under their belts? Roosters usually have Napa (or Moa) sitting on the bench, Bulldogs have Klemmer, Kasiano & Browne, Souths Tom Burgess & Clark, Broncos Thaiday & Wallace, Cowboys Hannant & Bolton, Sharks Tagataese... Storm only have K.Brom & Glasby both in the 40s, but they also get significantly bigger minutes out of their starters than pretty much every other team in the NRL.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/warriors/shaun-johnson-its-ridiculous-how-many-coaches-the-warriors-have-gone-through--exclusive-column/news-story/a520b5653a8c5f4554f44bc35ec7bfa3

Shaun Johnson: ?It?s ridiculous how many coaches the Warriors have gone through?

Cappy's here to stay?
Interesting article, SJ needs some serious mental help getting past the injury, I hope he is getting it and not trying to "man up" about it.

I find it humorous, and a double standard, that he says the 8 losses are irrelevant last year but it's totally relevant in terms of the hiring and firing of a completely different management when the current coach's job is concerned.

 

[Marty]

Who are the 10, then? By my count if you're not counting Lolohea or Henry (or Ali, because common sense) that makes 6 (edit: make that 7) NZ internationals (two of whom both play best in the same position - hooker), 1 Australian rep and 1 QLD rep - and both Aussies in that list have noticeably started to decline.

I agree that (to a degree) edge issues are a symptom of coaching (and I have had an issue with Cappy for some time, since it's been evident he is unwilling or incapable of making the necessary calls)... but by no means totally. There's no magic potion for a player who fundamentally can't defend - coaching them only goes to a point, at some point you need better cattle to work with... just look at Bennett in Newcastle.

Vete I think you're underselling - both he and Lisone will be big at any club (including ours), just give them time to develop. Neither is the finished product right now - Vete's progress has been slower, Lisone a little less so. As for the other clubs comment... how many successful clubs use a bench with no forward replacements having more than 50 NRL games under their belts? Roosters usually have Napa (or Moa) sitting on the bench, Bulldogs have Klemmer, Kasiano & Browne, Souths Tom Burgess & Clark, Broncos Thaiday & Wallace, Cowboys Hannant & Bolton, Sharks Tagataese... Storm only have K.Brom & Glasby both in the 40s, but they also get significantly bigger minutes out of their starters than pretty much every other team in the NRL.

I got to 10-12 by including Hoffman and Lillyman. [FONT=&quot]I misremembered that Bodene had played for the Kiwis...but the closest he got was 18th man.

Luke and [/FONT]Leuluai still would play at the same time in Kiwis side (one starting and one coming off the bench).

By my reckoning:

1. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck - World Class International
5. Manu Vatuvei - International
6. Shaun Johnson - World Class International
8. Jacob Lillyman - State of Origin Rep
9. Issac Luke - World Class International
10. Ben Matulino - International
11. Ryan Hoffman - State of Origin Rep
13. Simon Mannering - World Class International
14. Thomas Leuluai - International




2. Tuimoala Lolohea - Solid Talented Rookie/International
12. Bodene Thompson ? (18th Mans for the Kiwis)
[FONT=&quot]15. Ben Henry Solid First Grader\International

Lillyman to my eyes is playing to the same standard he has been for a number of years and Hoffman it could be argued has declined because of the team he is in and the coaching/team he is receiving etc...

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Edge defence - sure...but Blake Ashyford and Tui would be no less capable defensively that James Roberts or Jordan Kahu under Bennets coaching I believe.

I think you will find most of the top teams have forwards with inexperienced forwards on the bench.

Roosters:
Kane Evans 38 FG
Sio Siua Taukeiaho 31 FG
Dylan Napa 60 FG
Isaac Liu 65 FG

Souths:
Chris Grevsmuhl 23 FG
Damian Cook 12 FG
Kyle Turner 33 FG
Nathan Brown 10 FG

Brisbane:
[/FONT]Jarrod Wallace 49 FG
Joe Ofahengaue 16 FG
Kodi Nikorima 23 FG

Bulldogs:
Adam Elliot (less than 10 FG)
Lloyd Perrett 25 FG
David Klemmer 50 FG
Tim Brown 63 FG

Cowboys do have a pretty solid line up but they do carry John Asiata 35FG

 

[jaseg]

Dude... my point was that most successful clubs do have some experience on the bench, which they do (the guys I mentioned) - and your bench listings are weird, Kasiano plays off the bench for the Dogs, as does Thaiday this year (last year is was McGuire when fit, although Thaiday again at the start of the year), Souths will play either Tyrrell or T.Burgess off the bench.. and Clark, who you've missed (and that's after a pretty major clearout over the last couple of years), Napa & Liu are both over 60 games (plus Moa)... you're literally giving the same evidence I did, just missing bits.

In comparison, we don't have those sorts of guys coming off the bench. Matulino has been coming off the bench, but a) it's idiotic and b) that just moves another inexperienced player into the starting lineup. After Matulino & Lillyman we have the choice of:
Vete - 22
Sao - 21
Lisone - 21
Gavet - 17
Gubb - 16
RFM - 12

See the difference?

And no, a good coach doesn't magically make bad players (in our case specifically bad defensively) good (again, see Bennett@Newcastle - hell, look at other sports...). Did Bennett make Gagai & Leilua good defenders? Hell no! What makes you think Ayshford & Lolohea (who is playing wing anyway) would magically be better under him? Roberts was defending pretty well last year in a crap team, his defense isn't down to Bennett. Coaching is an issue, but it's hardly where the problem stops. Grab a centre or two who can play at a good level on both sides of the ball and we'll see improvement.

 

[Big Marn]

Grab a centre or two who can play at a good level on both sides of the ball and we'll see improvement.

rare as hens teeth. and because they are rare as hens teeth, they can pick what club they play for. And they usually don't pick here. Brent Tate would be the last good one and would he have come if Price hadn't already been here?

Basically we need a good scout who can see one in Qld cup etc before they get well known. last decent scouting we did from Aussie lower tier comps for any position was Brent Webb which is 15 years ago.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

When is Des available? Dogs up 22-0 after 20mins.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

There was an article yesterday about Des and the Dogs and how Des is often at odds with the board because of how much he wants spent on the football department.

So even if he was available it would take a lot of cash to get him over here for various reasons.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

There was an article yesterday about Des and the Dogs and how Des is often at odds with the board because of how much he wants spent on the football department.

So even if he was available it would take a lot of cash to get him over here for various reasons.

Is money an issue for us?
Des can have what ever he likes if he could get our forwards playing with this much energy.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Really Jim? Really?

Warriors CEO Jim Doyle says Andrew McFadden’s job is safe despite losing streak

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/warriors-ceo-jim-doyle-says-andrew-mcfaddens-job-is-safe-despite-losing-streak/story-e6frf3wc-1227803750164?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

He's not watching the same game I am!

Agreed Cappy can't be sacked for a caretaker, but if we lose to the Knights how can his position be safe?

Wonder which players think he is the greatest coach ever?

 

[Matua]

Nutso, was Doyle not in NZ when the Hurricanes saw their fanbase slip away because they belligerently kept a coach no one wanted and he wasn't up to it?

A failing season with a caretaker coach is better than failing with Cappy time and time again.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Nutso, was Doyle not in NZ when the Hurricanes saw their fanbase slip away because they belligerently kept a coach no one wanted and he wasn't up to it?

A failing season with a caretaker coach is better than failing with Cappy time and time again.

Let's just hope it PR to create perception of stability for next coach, not a fan of the long term solution talk vs a result based one.

We obviously have no one on the hook of any quality.

 

[Big Marn]

Newcastle has to be the pivotal game for McFadden.
if his team cant beat them at home, then surely he has to fall on his sword.
If the Management are dithering due to misguided loyalty then surely he owes it to the club to do the honourable thing... Anyway, im not expecting us to be beaten by Newcastle. If "lessons have been learned" then we should have a W.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Let's just hope it PR to create perception of stability for next coach, not a fan of the long term solution talk vs a result based one.

We obviously have no one on the hook of any quality.

Of course it's PR. A CEO should never publicly white ant his coach. What's happening behind the scenes is probably a whole other ball game though.

 

[Blair]

Newcastle has to be the pivotal game for McFadden.
if his team cant beat them at home, then surely he has to fall on his sword.
If the Management are dithering due to misguided loyalty then surely he owes it to the club to do the honourable thing... Anyway, im not expecting us to be beaten by Newcastle. If "lessons have been learned" then we should have a W.

So for fans it's all good tomorrow. We win, great, it's been so long and who knows what will happen from then on. We lose and it probably spells the end of a struggling coach.

Personally, I hope we have a blinder, the long term future can wait a while.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Not sure who would be able to get to coach that could sort out the shit we seemed to get served up by refs as a coach, but we need them ASAP.