Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[Whatwhere]

Purchase whatever you wish.

Yet SANZAR is in deep discussions ,whether to reduce the number of teams in that competition.The all you beaut ,bells and whistles Japan and South American additions did not set the world on fire.Hence why the Force are panicking as being the team to be flicked in Oz.
Many union fans cannot relate to teams form other countries.It is shown in the crowds and TV ratings, both in Oz and NZ.

They won't be reducing numbers. Certainly not the Force if they do. That whole malaise has been pushed by two Sydney journos with axes to grind with the organisation. They are just writing speculative adticles often quoting other articles they've written or articles the other one has that have no actual official backing or input. In fact, on several occasions SANZAAR officials have stated that of a number of proposals that will be tabled that this one was the least preferable.

Hasn't stopped them though.

 

[Knownothing]

As somebody who grew up playing and watching both rugby codes, I look forward to the day when the codes re-unite.


If it all comes down to money, then reunification is inevitable.


Speed the day.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

As somebody who grew up playing and watching both rugby codes, I look forward to the day when the codes re-unite.


If it all comes down to money, then reunification is inevitable.


Speed the day.

Only rugby benefits from a merge, league gets nothing from it. The only murmurs of merging the codes come from the rugby side only as they want the league talent to be apart of teams considering how poor the Wallabies have been this year that would like to have some of the league talent.

 

[Whatwhere]

As somebody who grew up playing and watching both rugby codes, I look forward to the day when the codes re-unite.


If it all comes down to money, then reunification is inevitable.


Speed the day.

Mate, I have this argument with an uncle practically everytime I see him. Not going to happen. There's no denying RL has seen growth of late internationally but comparatively it has been small and slow compared to Rugby.

Take Colombia as an example. Six years ago WR allocated $32,000 a year to their Union as well as access to development expertise. At the time of the allocation they had just over 4,000 players. They finished the last cycle having quadrupled their playing numbere to over 16,000. Most of those new players being under the age of 16.

Following this, WR boosted their funding by a factor of 10 to $320,000 and placed a full time development manager in the country. The goal is to repeat the success of the past 6 years.

What point am I making. While RL is growing its all very embryonic. While WR are running national programs or in cases of Chile providing the resources to Unions to lobby government to include the game in the school cirrculum and then administer programs in those schools.

WR are 20 years ahead of RL is this and are now beginning to see rapid growth because of all the investment and infrastructure put in place during that time. This allows them to build their financial base year on year.

For the first time ever, a German Rugby Test match was broadcasts on live TV in Germany available to every household in the country. A game Germany won against a more fancied opponent. They'll have another game given the same treatment this week when they play Brazil. The Czech Republic (now called Czechia) drew 11,000 (which was capacity for this stadium) to a game against the Baabaas.

Spain hosted Tonga in front of a packed house in Madrid. The Stadium only holds 12,000 buts the FER gets every Euro from the gate. Finally, Georgia hosted Japan in Tbilisi in front of an oversold stadium with people literally sitting in the stairwells.

The issue could very well be the same as the belief on artificial intelligence where as regards of whether one groups gets there only a day before another it may as well be 500,000 years. By the time RL gets to a similar point as Rugby is now, Rugby could be lightyears ahead of that point then.

 

[Whatwhere]

Only rugby benefits from a merge, league gets nothing from it. The only murmurs of merging the codes come from the rugby side only as they want the league talent to be apart of teams considering how poor the Wallabies have been this year that would like to have some of the league talent.

The only murmurs come from Australia. The rest of the world invterms of Rugby see no point in it.

 

[taipan]

As somebody who grew up playing and watching both rugby codes, I look forward to the day when the codes re-unite.


If it all comes down to money, then reunification is inevitable.


Speed the day.

I was brought up on ru, played it for 5 years ,rl for 1 .Knowing what I know past and present,I hope the rugby codes never unite.
The mere thought of the narrow minded stuffed shirts of the IRB running a unified code, would be the end of rl.

 

[Whatwhere]

I was brought up on ru, played it for 5 years ,rl for 1 .Knowing what I know past and present,I hope the rugby codes never unite.
The mere thought of the narrow minded stuffed shirts of the IRB running a unified code, would be the end of rl.

Any supposed merger would be only a merger in name not substance. Despite the NRL in Australia, Rugby is the far bigger and more resourced of the two overall and would largely absorb much of the game internationally.

 

[taipan]

Whether it was a sellout is actually of little consequence in the overall point being made. Taste2taste stated that he supposedly attended the 1987 RWC semi-final between Australia and France in which only 500 people attended. My point was and has been backed up by people running off to wiki to prove my sellout claim wrong that his statement was bullshit.

So two wrongs whether embellishment or BS re crowds , don't help a debate.

The facts are for nearly 100 years rl players and fans were ridiculed for paying players and watching the pro code.As soon as Rupert flashed his cheque book, they(union players and administrators) tripped over themselves in the rush to grab a slice.
In 1987 ru was " openly' amateur.It took money ,something they abhored in the past, to get them where they are today.

 

[taipan]

Any supposed merger would be only a merger in name not substance. Despite the NRL in Australia, Rugby is the far bigger and more resourced of the two overall and would largely absorb much of the game internationally.

The IRB is not that magnanimous.If they ran the show,rl would be absorbed into union.simply because of the size of union Internationally.And that would mean local rl comps.
I've seen and heard how the IRB operates, a charity they are not.
Whilst rugby league holds sway in this country, aided by expansion ,the chances of union taking over is slim at best.

 

[Whatwhere]

The IRB is not that magnanimous.If they ran the show,rl would be absorbed into union.simply because of the size of union Internationally.And that would mean local rl comps.
I've seen and heard how the IRB operates, a charity they are not.
Whilst rugby league holds sway in this country, aided by expansion ,the chances of union taking over is slim at best.

That's pretty much exactly what I suggested for the most part. A competition like the NRL and perhaps the SL might be maintained but as a whole if a merger occurred outside of that would be absorbed.

 

[Whatwhere]

So two wrongs whether embellishment or BS re crowds , don't help a debate.

The facts are for nearly 100 years rl players and fans were ridiculed for paying players and watching the pro code.As soon as Rupert flashed his cheque book, they(union players and administrators) tripped over themselves in the rush to grab a slice.
In 1987 ru was " openly' amateur.It took money ,something they abhored in the past, to get them where they are today.

My sellout was a shitload closer to the mark than his 500.

So what, Rugby was never going to remain amateur forever. It wasn't some kind of scandal. A threat emerged as did an opportunity and they took it. The cheek right. As for where the game is now. While that's just good management, planning and effort. Perhaps you should stop lamenting Rugby's progress and ask that despite having 100 years on it in terms of professionalism why RL has failed to get anything substantial up and running.

Please provide an answer that doesn't cry on avout the Vichy or obstruction. A game with the professional resources that RL enjoyed over its main rival still could have made progress. Why didn't it?

 

[taipan]

That's pretty much exactly what I suggested for the most part. A competition like the NRL and perhaps the SL might be maintained but as a whole if a merger occurred outside of that would be absorbed.

You can't have one without the other.The relationship with the IRB and the RLIF/RLEF is non existent ,and about as harmonious as Clinton and Trump.The history from France to Italy to Yugoslavia to Morocco would ensure it.
As one brought up on union, I would walk away from a merged code, and I dare say a fair swag of rl fans would do likewise.

 

[taipan]

My sellout was a shitload closer to the mark than his 500.

So what, Rugby was never going to remain amateur forever. It wasn't some kind of scandal. A threat emerged as did an opportunity and they took it. The cheek right. As for where the game is now. While that's just good management, planning and effort. Perhaps you should stop lamenting Rugby's progress and ask that despite having 100 years on it in terms of professionalism why RL has failed to get anything substantial up and running.

Please provide an answer that doesn't cry on avout the Vichy or obstruction. A game with the professional resources that RL enjoyed over its main rival still could have made progress. Why didn't it?

The rugby union (notice you leave out union) devotees and administrators should have kept their mouths shut and got on with their amateur code. And gone pro when they did.Instead of job threats`,and character shots over the years.Their hypocrisy is transparent.
I'm not lamenting union's progress if you bothered to check my posts,I'm spelling out what transpired historically.

In fact I'm happy with rls progress to the extent ,I now send some of my hard earned to the RLDF.

And BTW when union was supposedly amateur, the players did not receive money supposedly, the proceeds went to the admin body for use to expand the code.The rl on the other hand used their proceeds to pay players.IOW the available resources went to pay players and officials.Ever wondered why ARL or NRL clubs still don't make money.

Vichy is what it is, the French Govt spelt out the crap union threw at rl in 2002 ,in trying to kill it off.The French rl had zero resources ,no assets, little money, and no recognition.I won't bother to bring in Italy and Yugoslavia.
Why did it take nearly 100 years to get rl recognised in the Br Armed Services?.It took pressure in teh UK parliament to get that changed.
Why as both rugby codes are professional,is rl not allowed in GPS and Assoc schools, when AFL: is?

I spent years at school hearing about the lily white ru and their proud amateur history.Not tainted by professionalism.As Poidevin stated ,play for love not money.It's OK now of course.

 

[Stallion]

The rugby union (notice you leave out union) devotees and administrators should have kept their mouths shut and got on with their amateur code. And gone pro when they did.Instead of job threats`,and character shots over the years.Their hypocrisy is transparent.
I'm not lamenting union's progress if you bothered to check my posts,I'm spelling out what transpired historically.

In fact I'm happy with rls progress to the extent ,I now send some of my hard earned to the RLDF.

And BTW when union was supposedly amateur, the players did not receive money supposedly, the proceeds went to the admin body for use to expand the code.The rl on the other hand used their proceeds to pay players.IOW the available resources went to pay players and officials.Ever wondered why ARL or NRL clubs still don't make money.

Vichy is what it is, the French Govt spelt out the crap union threw at rl in 2002 ,in trying to kill it off.The French rl had zero resources ,no assets, little money, and no recognition.I won't bother to bring in Italy and Yugoslavia.
Why did it take nearly 100 years to get rl recognised in the Br Armed Services?.It took pressure in teh UK parliament to get that changed.
Why as both rugby codes are professional,is rl not allowed in GPS and Assoc schools, when AFL: is?

I spent years at school hearing about the lily white ru and their proud amateur history.Not tainted by professionalism.As Poidevin stated ,play for love not money.It's OK now of course.

Exactly. Well put Taipan.. There are plenty more examples of this rugby union bigotry toward rugby league and it reeks of fear that a much more appealing code of rugby(league) has been created by the breakaway rugby league over 100 years ago but the establishment refuses this codes natural progress in its bigoted way.

 

[Whatwhere]

You can't have one without the other.The relationship with the IRB and the RLIF/RLEF is non existent ,and about as harmonious as Clinton and Trump.The history from France to Italy to Yugoslavia to Morocco would ensure it.
As one brought up on union, I would walk away from a merged code, and I dare say a fair swag of rl fans would do likewise.

The Clintons and Trumps were actually quite friendly with each other for many, many years up until Trump decided he wanted to one day run for office. Anyway.

If a 'merger' ever were to occur as I have alluded to it would only be so in name rather than nature. Which is something you have also suggested. You're arguing a point in which we are actually largely in agreement on.

 

[taipan]

And Bob Hawke was quite friendly with Paul Keating.It's the now relationship.

I've stated there will be no merger ,for the various reasons I spelt out.Can't be any clearer.My argument is non.nay,never.
The NRL would have to be in a state of collapse, and that "ain't" likely to happen.

Whilst your'e at it ,lobby the French ru to hand back in today"s
equivalent of the 1941 300,000 French francs, nicked from the FRL's accounts in December 1941.

 

[Knownothing]

And Bob Hawke was quite friendly with Paul Keating.It's the now relationship.

I've stated there will be no merger ,for the various reasons I spelt out.Can't be any clearer.My argument is non.nay,never.
The NRL would have to be in a state of collapse, and that "ain't" likely to happen.

Or somebody would have to walk in with a very big cheque-book. This kind of thing has happened before.

 

[Whatwhere]

The rugby union (notice you leave out union) devotees and administrators should have kept their mouths shut and got on with their amateur code. And gone pro when they did.Instead of job threats`,and character shots over the years.Their hypocrisy is transparent.
I'm not lamenting union's progress if you bothered to check my posts,I'm spelling out what transpired historically.

In fact I'm happy with rls progress to the extent ,I now send some of my hard earned to the RLDF.

And BTW when union was supposedly amateur, the players did not receive money supposedly, the proceeds went to the admin body for use to expand the code.The rl on the other hand used their proceeds to pay players.IOW the available resources went to pay players and officials.Ever wondered why ARL or NRL clubs still don't make money.

Vichy is what it is, the French Govt spelt out the crap union threw at rl in 2002 ,in trying to kill it off.The French rl had zero resources ,no assets, little money, and no recognition.I won't bother to bring in Italy and Yugoslavia.
Why did it take nearly 100 years to get rl recognised in the Br Armed Services?.It took pressure in teh UK parliament to get that changed.
Why as both rugby codes are professional,is rl not allowed in GPS and Assoc schools, when AFL: is?

I spent years at school hearing about the lily white ru and their proud amateur history.Not tainted by professionalism.As Poidevin stated ,play for love not money.It's OK now of course.

Yes, because in Australia Rugby is RU. It's the accepted usage of the term.

Nice rant. Answers nothing. What many leave out of the French RL equation was the wholesale conversion of clubs from Rugby after France were banned from the then 4N's for dirty play and then their wholesale return after France was re-admitted. And didn't France contest the 1st RLWC final in 1954. Still seemed pretty competitive. No denying the Vichy period of history but I would suggest the history of French RL is more impeded by poor administration than anything.

As for being banned from the Defence Forces. Poor excuse. Rugby League had the resources to take control of its own destiny in terms of international expansio but chose to look inward.

 

[adamkungl]

On player payments. Maybe if every spare scrap of cash didn't go to the players and their managers these days we might have money to actually fund the game outside of the top 30 clubs in the world.

 

[Whatwhere]

And Bob Hawke was quite friendly with Paul Keating.It's the now relationship.

I've stated there will be no merger ,for the various reasons I spelt out.Can't be any clearer.My argument is non.nay,never.
The NRL would have to be in a state of collapse, and that "ain't" likely to happen.

Whilst your'e at it ,lobby the French ru to hand back in today"s
equivalent of the 1941 300,000 French francs, nicked from the FRL's accounts in December 1941.

You're not familiar with hypotheticals are you? You'll noticed I use this little two letter word 'if'. Not will, not eventually but 'if'. I've been saying that IF it were to occur then Rugby would largely absorb League.

Oh, just for a gas I quickly calculated how much those f300,000 would be worth today. Just under f5,100,000. Converting that to € that's just under €778,000. The FFR could do that easily.