Why little mention of the CQ NRL bid?

[Mr. Sharky]

I don't claim to "know the Sydney market", but I do have an understanding of competition building and market sizes, put simply the Sydney market is to small to sustain 9 teams and the NRL is a hell of a lot less appealing to the national (and international market in our case) with 9 Sydney teams then with 6 or 4!

If you want to watch a RL competition that consists mainly of Sydney based teams then good for you, go watch the NSWcup not the National Rugby League!



It seems that I am not "an idiot of the highest order" because I think relocating the Sharks (or any team) to CQ is a terrible idea and would be a huge wast of money with little return. Further more I have never supported any expansion plans that include CQ.

I will admit that despite my better judgment I have in the past supported expansion plans into the CC, but only because of my emotional attachment to the Bears.

Both areas are possible expansion locations, but should not be considered anytime soon.



Firstly, the Sydney Swans and the Brisbane lions prove that if done properly relocation has and can still work in Australia.

Secondly, though relocation is most prominent in the USA they are not the only examples of relocation.



Financially the Canberra Raiders are completely stable and in fact we are actually quite rich, so unlike most Sydney based clubs we can honestly say that we know for a fact that we will be around in 20 years time, which gives us a lot of time to fix our problems without being a burden on the NRL, a luxury most Sydney based teams do not have.

I am the first to admit that our support has been hopeless in recent times, but any clubs would be if they had been going through the consistent off field BS that we have been for the last 15 or so years. But things seem to be changing now that Johnny Mc is moving on.



The AFL's ego lead themselves to over extend themselves, the NRL equivalent would be if we were to expand into Melbourne and geelong within the next few years, something that nobody is suggesting is a good idea.

We should learn from their mistake (one that we have made in the past) and not push for to much to soon.

BTW what has Paul Kent's masturbation habits got to do with anything?

The Brisbane Lions are not a relocated team.

It was a forced merger between a failed expansion team in the Brisbane Bears and a financially struggling foundation club Fitzroy.

If you said to an old Fitzroy fan that they were a relocated club they'd probably clock you in the chops.

International market is something we can only dream of unfortunately.

The John Ribot dream of having league in China played in front of 120,000 people will never happen sadly.

I am heartily fed up of anyone suggesting Cronulla should relocate anywhere.

Anyone with half a brain would know we have always been cash poor and asset rich.

That will change with the property development due to begin construction at the end of the year.

With the money coming in from the development we will probably be one of the richest clubs in the game.

 

[CQ Italia]

Young stars and their guiding lights line up for CQ

Have your say »

• 18th Sep 2013 11:22 AM

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Lionel Harbin takes the reins of the under-15 team Sharyn O'neill
CENTRAL Queensland's next crop of rugby league stars is certainly in good hands.
When the CQ NRL Bid under-14 and under-15 teams run out against the Northern Pride development sides on Sunday at Victoria Park Central Queensland, they'll be under the watchful eye of a few of Central Queensland's brightest rugby league minds.
Lionel Harbin takes the reins of the under-15 team, which contains many of the original players from the inaugural squad that started as 13-year-olds in the program back in 2011.
The former Canberra Raider's coaching talents haven't gone unnoticed.
Harbin was appointed head coach of the under-15 Queensland Murri side.
Harbin will have a new assistant coach this season with the appointment of former Central Queensland Capras assistant coach Kane Hardy.
Former South Sydney Rabbitohs and North Queensland Cowboys winger Justin Loomans will bring his expertise, experience and skills to the teams as head trainer for the CQ NRL Bid junior development program.
CQ NRL Bid business and community development manager Walson Carlos said the coaching staff was vital to the success of the program.
"Justin and Lionel have been a part of the program since its inception and they have been outstanding," he said.
"Lionel is a real players' coach and he really cares about the boys and what is going on in their lives, and that's why the players want to play for him."
On the back of his success with the CQU Norths Chargers under-20 team, Darren Ferricks steps up into the under-14 coaching role.
Ferricks led the Chargers to back-to-back Rockhampton Senior Rugby League under-20 premierships.
He was also an assistant coach for the Capras under-21 team and assisted Jason Hetherington with the top squad.
"Darren deserves his crack with the under-13s and both he and Lionel are coaches with enormous potential to progress in the future if they continue to improve and gain experience," Carlos said.
Mackay's Mick Neilsen will back up for his second year in the assistant coach role for the under-13 team.
This Sunday's games at Victoria Park start at 1pm with the under-14s.
The under-15 match kicks-off at 2pm.



http://www.themorningbulletin.com.a...d-their-guiding-lights-line-up-for-c/2024147/

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The Brisbane Lions are not a relocated team.

It was a forced merger between a failed expansion team in the Brisbane Bears and a financially struggling foundation club Fitzroy.

If you said to an old Fitzroy fan that they were a relocated club they'd probably clock you in the chops.

They might punch you in the face, but that doesnt make them any less wrong.

The only difference between the Lions moving to Brisbane and the Sharks moving somewhere, is that the lions already had a structure in the old Bears team that they could work off.

I am heartily fed up of anyone suggesting Cronulla should relocate anywhere.

Anyone with half a brain would know we have always been cash poor and asset rich.

That will change with the property development due to begin construction at the end of the year.

With the money coming in from the development we will probably be one of the richest clubs in the game.

Who gives a shit how much money an asset make. In the context of a football club, those assets are only there for stability. The Sharks are still a small team with not much support in an already saturated market with not much prospect of growth.

 

[The Great Dane]

The Brisbane Lions are not a relocated team.

It was a forced merger between a failed expansion team in the Brisbane Bears and a financially struggling foundation club Fitzroy.

If you said to an old Fitzroy fan that they were a relocated club they'd probably clock you in the chops.

Yeah it was a merger, but for all intents and purposes it was also a relocation.

They relocated the Fitzroy brand and plastered it all over the Brisbane Bears infrastructure.

International market is something we can only dream of unfortunately.

The John Ribot dream of having league in China played in front of 120,000 people will never happen sadly.

Unless NZ and PNG have become part of Australia we already have a sustainable international market. So you can stop dreaming we already have an international market and who knows maybe if we looked after it better it might get stronger and even grow.

As for China we'll never know if they might be interested over there if we don't try, and it looks like the mighty Green Machine and Manly are going to give it a go in the not to distant future. So who knows maybe after many years of hard work and constant support from the NRL we might see RL established in China.

I am heartily fed up of anyone suggesting Cronulla should relocate anywhere.

Anyone with half a brain would know we have always been cash poor and asset rich.

That will change with the property development due to begin construction at the end of the year.

With the money coming in from the development we will probably be one of the richest clubs in the game.

Well I never actually suggested that Cronulla should relocate, I'm not death riding Cronulla and never have but the sad reality is that even with Wests and the Panthers biting on their tail they are the best candidate for relocation, whether you like that or not that's a fact.

I hate to be the one to tell you this and again I'm not death riding you guys but your property development is not a silver bullet, Cornulla doesn't get another cent from their property development for another 5-8 years once the development is complete and all the money from your first payment is gone, you spent it all on paying off your debts.

The sad thing is between now and that next payment every year you're making a relatively small loss, which normally wouldn't be a big deal but with things as they are now with ASADA and all the other happenings, if Cronulla suddenly needs to pay a large sum of money like say a fine or if your affected players successfully sue the club for damages, you wont have the money to pay it.
That will leave you with only a few possible scenarios, either you manage to scrabble the money together from donations which is very unlikely considering your luck with sponsors in the past and your small supporters base, you miraculously find a multimillionaire fan willing to pay this new debt or even bankroll the club which is even less likely then the first scenario because if this fan existed he/she already would have stepped in to support the club or most likely you've got to ask the NRL for help in which case they can either decide to help you on their terms or let you die.

As you can probably all ready figure out for yourself the most likely situation is that you ask the NRL for help in which case they are in control, you've either got to do things their way or die and if that happens well who knows what the NRL would do, but we know for a fact that the Cronulla Sharks are more valuable to them if their not in Cronulla!

Even if you do survive this next period (as you likely will) you'll still be a prime option for relocation because there's not much room for you to grow so eventually as the other clubs get bigger you wont be able to keep up and eventually they'll eat into your market and you'll start to get poorer, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

I know you don't like Paul Kent and his masturbation habits but he's not lying or even bending the truth to make his story more sensational in this case.http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sport/nrl/news/2013/8/asada-investigation-may-present-nrl-with-opportunity-to-relocate-cronulla-sharks/

 

[Mr. Sharky]

They might punch you in the face, but that doesnt make them any less wrong.

The only difference between the Lions moving to Brisbane and the Sharks moving somewhere, is that the lions already had a structure in the old Bears team that they could work off.



Who gives a shit how much money an asset make. In the context of a football club, those assets are only there for stability. The Sharks are still a small team with not much support in an already saturated market with not much prospect of growth.

Who gives a shit if we're a small club.

One has to look at the USA's NFL to know that small teams can be successful.

Look at the Green Bay Packers, they are based in one of the tiniest cities in America and the team's Lambeau Field stadium has a capacity just under that the official population of the town itself.

Not everyone can be a Brisbane or Melbourne with multi-billionaires running the joint.

Not much support?

What have you been smoking this season?

We had over 10,000 members this year, not many Sydney clubs had that this season.

Penrith only had 5K members, why don't we relocate them?

The west may be important but the argument still remains that nobody gives a shit about Penrith.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Yeah it was a merger, but for all intents and purposes it was also a relocation.

They relocated the Fitzroy brand and plastered it all over the Brisbane Bears infrastructure.



Unless NZ and PNG have become part of Australia we already have a sustainable international market. So you can stop dreaming we already have an international market and who knows maybe if we looked after it better it might get stronger and even grow.

As for China we'll never know if they might be interested over there if we don't try, and it looks like the mighty Green Machine and Manly are going to give it a go in the not to distant future. So who knows maybe after many years of hard work and constant support from the NRL we might see RL established in China.



Well I never actually suggested that Cronulla should relocate, I'm not death riding Cronulla and never have but the sad reality is that even with Wests and the Panthers biting on their tail they are the best candidate for relocation, whether you like that or not that's a fact.

I hate to be the one to tell you this and again I'm not death riding you guys but your property development is not a silver bullet, Cornulla doesn't get another cent from their property development for another 5-8 years once the development is complete and all the money from your first payment is gone, you spent it all on paying off your debts.

The sad thing is between now and that next payment every year you're making a relatively small loss, which normally wouldn't be a big deal but with things as they are now with ASADA and all the other happenings, if Cronulla suddenly needs to pay a large sum of money like say a fine or if your affected players successfully sue the club for damages, you wont have the money to pay it.
That will leave you with only a few possible scenarios, either you manage to scrabble the money together from donations which is very unlikely considering your luck with sponsors in the past and your small supporters base, you miraculously find a multimillionaire fan willing to pay this new debt or even bankroll the club which is even less likely then the first scenario because if this fan existed he/she already would have stepped in to support the club or most likely you've got to ask the NRL for help in which case they can either decide to help you on their terms or let you die.

As you can probably all ready figure out for yourself the most likely situation is that you ask the NRL for help in which case they are in control, you've either got to do things their way or die and if that happens well who knows what the NRL would do, but we know for a fact that the Cronulla Sharks are more valuable to them if their not in Cronulla!

Even if you do survive this next period (as you likely will) you'll still be a prime option for relocation because there's not much room for you to grow so eventually as the other clubs get bigger you wont be able to keep up and eventually they'll eat into your market and you'll start to get poorer, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

I know you don't like Paul Kent and his masturbation habits but he's not lying or even bending the truth to make his story more sensational in this case.http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sport/nrl/news/2013/8/asada-investigation-may-present-nrl-with-opportunity-to-relocate-cronulla-sharks/

Fact is the NRL stands to lose the Sutherland Shire market completely by relocating us.

I and most Cronulla fans will walk away from the game should we relocate or fold.

The only reason I support the club is because it's Cronulla, if it's not a Cronulla side then that's me gone.

 

[papabear]

i dont think cronulla should be relocated

Id piss of easts and manly before them.

but if cronulla were relocated but all their sydney games were played out of toyota stadium would you still show up and support them?

 

[The Great Dane]

Fact is the NRL stands to lose the Sutherland Shire market completely by relocating us.

I and most Cronulla fans will walk away from the game should we relocate or fold.

The only reason I support the club is because it's Cronulla, if it's not a Cronulla side then that's me gone.

So we're back to the 'we Sydney fans are irreplaceable' argument, well I'm sorry but that's just not true.

Look into any area that has lost a team/s in any sport and you'll see that yes initially there is a drop in interest in the sport as the original fans become disenchanted, but over time the old fans die away and are replaced by a new generations of sports fans who do not hold the same love for the old team and are more then willing to support a replacement.

Take the Bears for example, the Bears fold the fans refuse to support a new team and slowly are lost to the game. Over time new people interested in sport enter the market and often become interested in the sport/club most accessible to them, in this case the Swans and Tahs and the area becomes more interested in those sports.

Now imagine the NRL and Manly had the money and resources that we now have and had the capability to make themselves the most accessible team in Northern Sydney (in other words plastered themselves all over the place), if that had happend there'd be a whole lot more Manly fans in North Sydney then AFL and RU fans.

The same sort of thing could work in the Shire with the Dragons if done properly and that's the route we wanted to head down.

Who gives a shit if we're a small club.

One has to look at the USA's NFL to know that small teams can be successful.

Look at the Green Bay Packers, they are based in one of the tiniest cities in America and the team's Lambeau Field stadium has a capacity just under that the official population of the town itself.

Not everyone can be a Brisbane or Melbourne with multi-billionaires running the joint.

Not much support?

What have you been smoking this season?

We had over 10,000 members this year, not many Sydney clubs had that this season.

Penrith only had 5K members, why don't we relocate them?

The west may be important but the argument still remains that nobody gives a shit about Penrith.

Firstly Greenbay are the exception not the rule and there are many things you can compare the Cronulla Sharks to but the Green Bay Packers are not one of them.

Secondly Penrith has a lot more room to grow then the Sharks have, but as I said before in another post they are catch up to your lot very quickly in 'most ideal for relocation' competition.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

i dont think cronulla should be relocated

Id piss of easts and manly before them.

but if cronulla were relocated but all their sydney games were played out of toyota stadium would you still show up and support them?

No I wouldn't.

It wouldn't be a Cronulla team.

I support the Sharks because it is the area I have grown up in and continue to live in.

I have always stated if the club relocated that would be me gone.

I want to support a club that I support passionately and I couldn't support a relocated team.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

So we're back to the 'we Sydney fans are irreplaceable' argument, well I'm sorry but that's just not true.

Look into any area that has lost a team/s in any sport and you'll see that yes initially there is a drop in interest in the sport as the original fans become disenchanted, but over time the old fans die away and are replaced by a new generations of sports fans who do not hold the same love for the old team and are more then willing to support a replacement.

Take the Bears for example, the Bears fold the fans refuse to support a new team and slowly are lost to the game. Over time new people interested in sport enter the market and often become interested in the sport/club most accessible to them, in this case the Swans and Tahs and the area becomes more interested in those sports.

Now imagine the NRL and Manly had the money and resources that we now have and had the capability to make themselves the most accessible team in Northern Sydney (in other words plastered themselves all over the place), if that had happend there'd be a whole lot more Manly fans in North Sydney then AFL and RU fans.

The same sort of thing could work in the Shire with the Dragons if done properly and that's the route we wanted to head down.



Firstly Greenbay are the exception not the rule and there are many things you can compare the Cronulla Sharks to but the Green Bay Packers are not one of them.

Secondly Penrith has a lot more room to grow then the Sharks have, but as I said before in another post they are catch up to your lot very quickly in 'most ideal for relocation' competition.

Not really,

Penrith don't have much room to move at all.

Go east and you are in Eels territory and you are in the Blue Mountains once you go 10-15 kilometres west, further south you are in Wests Tigers territory.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Who gives a shit if we're a small club.

One has to look at the USA's NFL to know that small teams can be successful.

Look at the Green Bay Packers, they are based in one of the tiniest cities in America and the team's Lambeau Field stadium has a capacity just under that the official population of the town itself.

You cannot use the NFL in an argument like this. Sure, Greenbay has about 80,000 people, but Wisconsin has about 6 million people. That argument is only really valid if sydney had no other teams.

Not much support?

What have you been smoking this season?

We had over 10,000 members this year, not many Sydney clubs had that this season.

Yeah, thats the only reason i have reservations about Sharks moving. They are currently growing and i dont think anyone know exactly how big they are going to get.
But unless your club can actually get a larger percentage of your local population than any other NRl team has ever achieved, im going to say this growth still wont be enough.

Penrith only had 5K members, why don't we relocate them?

The west may be important but the argument still remains that nobody gives a shit about Penrith.

I agree. I think the argument that Penrith needs an NRL team for their junior development is bullshit. If they dont have the support then they should move. I hate teams playing infront of 5,000 people, its pathetic.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Fact is the NRL stands to lose the Sutherland Shire market completely by relocating us.

I and most Cronulla fans will walk away from the game should we relocate or fold.

The only reason I support the club is because it's Cronulla, if it's not a Cronulla side then that's me gone.

But if you do actually only have 10,000 fans, then that might be a necessary move. If killing Cronulla loses the NRL 10,000 fans but a new team in perth bring in 50,000 fans, then to me thats a good move.

(Dont argue these numbers, i myself have nothing to back this up. This is a completely hypothetical argument.)

 

[The Great Dane]

No I wouldn't.

It wouldn't be a Cronulla team.

I support the Sharks because it is the area I have grown up in and continue to live in.

I have always stated if the club relocated that would be me gone.

I want to support a club that I support passionately and I couldn't support a relocated team.

You'd still be able to support them passionately in the NSWRL!

No one is suggesting that Cronulla (or any other Sydney team) should be forced to shut up shop and be scrubbed from the history books, simply that their NRL operation should be moved to a more suitable location. The Cronulla Sharks would still play in the NSWRL and you'd still be able to support them they just wouldn't be in the national competition.

 

[taipan]

You'd still be able to support them passionately in the NSWRL!

No one is suggesting that Cronulla (or any other Sydney team) should be forced to shut up shop and be scrubbed from the history books, simply that their NRL operation should be moved to a more suitable location. The Cronulla Sharks would still play in the NSWRL and you'd still be able to support them they just wouldn't be in the national competition.

Perhaps some should be looking at relocating Canberra.They are a basketcase in an area with crowd numbers dropping, a continuing litany of offfield debacles.mgt problems and disgruntled players.

The notion that Shark's fans would follow a lower comp or relocation,has no idea of their passion.

 

[Perth Red]

Tbf when clubs can only draw 10k each to a finals game you have to question their place in the NRL, especially when expansion of the game is being held back.

 

[The Great Dane]

Perhaps some should be looking at relocating Canberra.They are a basketcase in an area with crowd numbers dropping, a continuing litany of offfield debacles.mgt problems and disgruntled players.

We've already been through that.

The notion that Shark's fans would follow a lower comp or relocation,has no idea of their passion.

Can't be too passionate if they wouldn't follow them not matter what competition they're playing in!

Anyway the point is that their fans are replaceable even if they don't follow their beloved Sharks in the NSWcup.

Cronulla are in a small market and have struggled all their existence, they're not very well placed for the NRL and are actually a burden to keep in the competition. So why not move this club to a large market that they can have all to themselves, that is in a strategic location for the NRL, worth lots of TV money to the NRL and allow them to prosper in that market?

 

[warrior poet]

maybe they could merge the sharks with the raiders? give them the act, cronulla-sutherland and the nsw south coast as an area to represent... more fans, more juniors, more money coming in! (just a thought)

anyway back to the cq bid... has there been a name announced? i think they would probably get more support and be noticed more if they weren't just the 'central queensland nrl bid'. The most well known bids are cc bears, wc pirates and b bombers, which just happen to be the only teams that have announced the teams branding (besides brothers, but no one outside the brothers group of clubs seem to care about them). what about colours of maroon, gold and green with the name cq crocs? (not sure whether cq has a large population of crocs or anything... i'm a kiwi and have never been there). i was thinking something to do with the tropic of capricorn (but might be to similar to the rams branding that adelaide used) also capra is already used for the qld cup team.

Personally i would prefer the pirates and a 2nd kiwi team to be the next teams in, but since the rumoured 2 kiwi bids (wellington and christchurch) don't seem to have much organisation or publicity, besides a single yearly newspaper quote, i would prefer to see cq as the 2nd expansion team. The bears, western corridor and bombers represent areas that basically already have representation (seaeagles/knights, broncos, broncos respectively).

 

[jubbsy]

Sharks relocate to Perth. Central Coast is huge rugby league area and should have their own team. A quality stadium already exists on the Central Coast. PNG would be interesting.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Use the SQLD Crushers logo and jersey for the CQLD bid.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

You'd still be able to support them passionately in the NSWRL!

No one is suggesting that Cronulla (or any other Sydney team) should be forced to shut up shop and be scrubbed from the history books, simply that their NRL operation should be moved to a more suitable location. The Cronulla Sharks would still play in the NSWRL and you'd still be able to support them they just wouldn't be in the national competition.

We've already been through that.



Can't be too passionate if they wouldn't follow them not matter what competition they're playing in!

Anyway the point is that their fans are replaceable even if they don't follow their beloved Sharks in the NSWcup.

Cronulla are in a small market and have struggled all their existence, they're not very well placed for the NRL and are actually a burden to keep in the competition. So why not move this club to a large market that they can have all to themselves, that is in a strategic location for the NRL, worth lots of TV money to the NRL and allow them to prosper in that market?

There is no point in reasoning with a dill from the capital like you GD.

How many Newtown Jets fans turn up to Henson Park to watch them play 30 years after their exit from the top grade or how many Bears fans turn up to North Sydney Oval to watch them run around 13 years after their exit from the top grade?

Two men and a f**king dog turn up to these games to watch the Jets and the Bears and if you think we're going to want to turn up to watch our club in NSW Cup and nothing else is a load of bullshit.

Are you sure you aren't a f**king St George fan?

Only those halfwits would want us gone as they'd attempt to poach our area.

Canberra is a f**king burden to keep in the competition.

Canberra is such a f**king hole that their players deliberately carry on like dickheads just so they can leave the joint.

How about we relocate them to f**king Shanghai, then you can watch your beloved Faders play in the NSW Cup competition.

How f**king dare you suggest we should be relocated and not have our rightful place in the competition.

We have as much right to be there as your f**king Canberra Scum do.

Go f**k yourself, you f**king oxygen thief.