Why little mention of the CQ NRL bid?

[Mr. Sharky]

Sharks relocate to Perth. Central Coast is huge rugby league area and should have their own team. A quality stadium already exists on the Central Coast. PNG would be interesting.

Huge Rugby League area my arse.

I think you'll find that is no longer true.

The Mariners have taken that area over and the Central Coast is now a football heartland.

 

[The Great Dane]

There is no point in reasoning with a dill from the capital like you GD.

How many Newtown Jets fans turn up to Henson Park to watch them play 30 years after their exit from the top grade or how many Bears fans turn up to North Sydney Oval to watch them run around 13 years after their exit from the top grade?

Two men and a f**king dog turn up to these games to watch the Jets and the Bears and if you think we're going to want to turn up to watch our club in NSW Cup and nothing else is a load of bullshit.

Whats a better business decision, carrying the Jets for 30 year when they couldn't keep up and are costing the league more then they are making or dropping them and replacing them with clubs that can look after themselves and do make money?

That's what this boils down to, it's just business. The Jets couldn't keep up so they were left behind and they were never a suburb trying to compete with cities in a National competition.

The Bears situation was different and was an injustice, you'll get no argument from me about that.

As for both teams fans that may or may not have been lost to the game, yes it is sad that they're teams couldn't continue to compete in the top league, but it was business they're clubs went under for whatever reasons and that's just sometimes how things go.

What you are trying argue is akin to arguing that the government should bailout every business that go's broke, do you not realise that?

Are you sure you aren't a f**king St George fan?

Only those halfwits would want us gone as they'd attempt to poach our area.

I'm quite certain that I'm not a St George Illawarra fan.

BTW of course your the type of fan that forgets the Illawarra, they're outside of Sydney so they don't fit your view of what RL should be.

Canberra is a f**king burden to keep in the competition.

Canberra is such a f**king hole that their players deliberately carry on like dickheads just so they can leave the joint.

How about we relocate them to f**king Shanghai, then you can watch your beloved Faders play in the NSW Cup competition.

Firstly by what measure are we a burden on the comp? We pay our own way, we provide heaps of juniors to the comp and we provide a presence in the ACT and Southern NSW that at the moment no other team could come in and replace without massive backing from the NRL that would cost more to achieve then keeping us does.

So explain to me how in anyway we are a burden, except that we don't fit the Sydney agenda of course.

Secondly it would be impossible for me to support the Raiders in the NSW cup because we don't have a team in the NSW cup.

How f**king dare you suggest we should be relocated and not have our rightful place in the competition.

We have as much right to be there as your f**king Canberra Scum do.

Go f**k yourself, you f**king oxygen thief.

See that's just it, no club or area has a right to be in the NRL!!

You have to constantly prove you are worthy of being in the NRL if your not you'll be replaced by someone that is, just like an actual football team if you consistently under preform you'll be dropped and replaced!

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Whats a better business decision, carrying the Jets for 30 year when they couldn't keep up and are costing the league more then they are making or dropping them and replacing them with clubs that can look after themselves and do make money?

That's what this boils down to, it's just business. The Jets couldn't keep up so they were left behind and they were never a suburb trying to compete with cities in a National competition.

The Bears situation was different and was an injustice, you'll get no argument from me about that.

As for both teams fans that may or may not have been lost to the game, yes it is sad that they're teams couldn't continue to compete in the top league, but it was business they're clubs went under for whatever reasons and that's just sometimes how things go.

What you are trying argue is akin to arguing that the government should bailout every business that go's broke, do you not realise that?




I'm quite certain that I'm not a St George Illawarra fan.

BTW of course your the type of fan that forgets the Illawarra, they're outside of Sydney so they don't fit your view of what RL should be.



Firstly by what measure are we a burden on the comp? We pay our own way, we provide heaps of juniors to the comp and we provide a presence in the ACT and Southern NSW that at the moment no other team could come in and replace without massive backing from the NRL that would cost more to achieve then keeping us does.

So explain to me how in anyway we are a burden, except that we don't fit the Sydney agenda of course.

Secondly it would be impossible for me to support the Raiders in the NSW cup because we don't have a team in the NSW cup.



See that's just it, no club or area has a right to be in the NRL!!

You have to constantly prove you are worthy of being in the NRL if your not you'll be replaced by someone that is, just like an actual football team if you consistently under preform you'll be dropped and replaced!

So do we, do the names Chad Towsend, Stewart Mills, Matt Hilder, Kevin Kingston, Cameron Ciraldo, Tyrone Peachey, Mitch Brown, David Simmons, James Hasson ring any bells to you?

They all came out of the Cronulla Junior League.

You are talking out of your arse if you think we don't produce juniors.

We produce just as many juniors as Parramatta do and like the Eels both clubs are riddled with political issues at board level.

I wasn't forgetting the Steelers you flea, I just couldn't be bothered typing the full name.

The Steelers actually have more right to be there than the St George half of the merger does.

Who was the last St George junior to play for the Dragons?

Constantly underperform? Well why haven't Parramatta been dumped? They've been constantly shit for the past 27 years bar a few finals appearances in the late 90's and two Grand Finals in 2001 and 2009. They've had two wooden spoons in a row which we haven't had since the year Man walked on the moon in 1969.

The moral of the story, you have no idea so shut your mouth, you flea.

 

[The Great Dane]

So do we, do the names Chad Towsend, Stewart Mills, Matt Hilder, Kevin Kingston, Cameron Ciraldo, Tyrone Peachey, Mitch Brown, David Simmons, James Hasson ring any bells to you?

They all came out of the Cronulla Junior League.

You are talking out of your arse if you think we don't produce juniors.

We produce just as many juniors as Parramatta do and like the Eels both clubs are riddled with political issues at board level.

Umm where did I claim that Cronulla (or Parrmatta) don't produce juniors!?

You said that the Raiders were a burden on the league and I used our juniors system (one of the best in the league) as one of the reason why we are not.

Your just clutching at straws now.

I wasn't forgetting the Steelers you flea, I just couldn't be bothered typing the full name.

The Steelers actually have more right to be there than the St George half of the merger does.

Who was the last St George junior to play for the Dragons?

I was less worried about the Steelers and more worried about the actual Illawarra which the Dragons are now meant to represent, but whatever. Yes the Dragons should be based in the Gong full time but once again the Sydney fans would lose their shit so we stop progress for them.

BTW how the f##k would I know who the last Dragons junior was and how the f##k is it relevant??

Constantly underperform? Well why haven't Parramatta been dumped? They've been constantly shit for the past 27 years bar a few finals appearances in the late 90's and two Grand Finals in 2001 and 2009. They've had two wooden spoons in a row which we haven't had since the year Man walked on the moon in 1969.

I was talking about off field performance!

You know the business side of the club, the clubs ability to sustain a business and not have to be bailed out every few years.

The moral of the story, you have no idea so shut your mouth, you flea.

Says the one who can't provide any arguments for their point apart from 'but they're from Sydney', 'Sydney is the superficial heart of the game' and 'we might lose a couple of thousand fans of the game'.....

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Umm where did I claim that Cronulla (or Parrmatta) don't produce juniors!?

You said that the Raiders were a burden on the league and I used our juniors system (one of the best in the league) as one of the reason why we are not.

Your just clutching at straws now.



I was less worried about the Steelers and more worried about the actual Illawarra which the Dragons are now meant to represent, but whatever. Yes the Dragons should be based in the Gong full time but once again the Sydney fans would lose their shit so we stop progress for them.

BTW how the f##k would I know who the last Dragons junior was and how the f##k is it relevant??



I was talking about off field performance!

You know the business side of the club, the clubs ability to sustain a business and not have to be bailed out every few years.



Says the one who can't provide any arguments for their point apart from 'but they're from Sydney', 'Sydney is the superficial heart of the game' and 'we might lose a couple of thousand fans of the game'.....

If it wasn't for Sydney, there'd be no NRL.

It was the Sydney competition that was the spine of the game until 1982 when Canberra and Illawarra came into an expanded Sydney comp.

As far as "business side" is concerned, there are other clubs I'd be turfing out before us.

Does Manly ring any bells?

The club that went broke and merged with Norths only to knife them and now struggling again themselves off the field.

Penrith a club now struggling on and off the field.

Roosters, a club with no fans reliant on a car tycoon.

 

[The Great Dane]

If it wasn't for Sydney, there'd be no NRL.

It was the Sydney competition that was the spine of the game until 1982 when Canberra and Illawarra came into an expanded Sydney comp.

Your right the competition did need Sydney back then to survive, but guess what it's grown stronger and doesn't need the massive presence in Sydney anymore and now that presence is holding us back so we move on for the betterment of the game as a whole.

As for the heart of the game that's always been the small footy clubs that work their arse's off to make sure that anybody can play the game and Sydney's never been the home of the game either that honor belongs to Huddersfield.

As far as "business side" is concerned, there are other clubs I'd be turfing out before us.

Does Manly ring any bells?

The club that went broke and merged with Norths only to knife them and now struggling again themselves off the field.

Penrith a club now struggling on and off the field.

Roosters, a club with no fans reliant on a car tycoon.

Yeah they're all a huge mess, but Manly has heaps of room to grow on the North Shore and need to be given NRL backing and time to see if they can capture that opportunity, Penrith has potential but are very quickly running out of time and the Roosters are almost certainly stuffed once uncle Nick passes away, unless they can find another millionaire willing to bankroll them and even if they can should be considering relocation/merger/regulation I agree.

But none of them are in dire straights right now like the Sharks, hemmed in on all sides with little room for growth, ASADA breathing down their necks, no money coming in, desperately trying to hold onto a sponsor for more then a year and not a great deal of opportunity in the area they are currently based.

As I said before all it will take is one large fine from ASADA and Cronulla will have very few options.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Your right the competition did need Sydney back then to survive, but guess what it's grown stronger and doesn't need the massive presence in Sydney anymore and now that presence is holding us back so we move on for the betterment of the game as a whole.

As for the heart of the game that's always been the small footy clubs that work their arse's off to make sure that anybody can play the game and Sydney's never been the home of the game either that honor belongs to Huddersfield.



Yeah they're all a huge mess, but Manly has heaps of room to grow on the North Shore and need to be given NRL backing and time to see if they can capture that opportunity, Penrith has potential but are very quickly running out of time and the Roosters are almost certainly stuffed once uncle Nick passes away, unless they can find another millionaire willing to bankroll them and even if they can should be considering relocation/merger/regulation I agree.

But none of them are in dire straights right now like the Sharks, hemmed in on all sides with little room for growth, ASADA breathing down their necks, no money coming in, desperately trying to hold onto a sponsor for more then a year and not a great deal of opportunity in the area they are currently based.

As I said before all it will take is one large fine from ASADA and Cronulla will have very few options.

Not really, we've been in worse situations than this down the years and managed to survive.

I look back to 2009 when the media trashed us to all corners and we survived, 1993 we went within a whisker of folding yet we survived.

Seriously GD, you're going to have to get over your Cronulla hate.

We're not going anywhere, whether you like it or not.

Are you sure you aren't Rebecca Wilson in drag?

Manly room to move on the North Shore?

You better not let North Sydney and the Central Coast Bears bid team know that.

North Sydney people hate Manly.

 

[The Great Dane]

Not really, we've been in worse situations than this down the years and managed to survive.

I look back to 2009 when the media trashed us to all corners and we survived, 1993 we went within a whisker of folding yet we survived.

Seriously GD, you're going to have to get over your Cronulla hate.

We're not going anywhere, whether you like it or not.

Are you sure you aren't Rebecca Wilson in drag?

What hate? I don't hate Cronulla, I'm just realistic about which way the game should be heading and that's not desperately trying to hold onto Sydney clubs at a huge financial cost and at the expense of the rest of the competition and it's expansion possibilities.

Even if Cronulla do survive this next episode (which for the record is possible) they should be relocated or merged.

I didn't even bring them up in our conversation you did.

Manly room to move on the North Shore?

You better not let North Sydney and the Central Coast Bears bid team know that.

North Sydney people hate Manly.

The CC Bears bid is a bad idea for many reasons, the main one is that it would condemn the Eagles to become another Cronulla when that can be avoided.

If we really want a team on the CC, which isn't necessarily a bad idea but shouldn't be high the list of priorities right now, it can't be the Bears.

As for the Bears sway in North Sydney, it's dying. Anybody under the age of 25 doesn't have much of a connection to the Bears apart from what their parents have told them, that's a whole generation and growing. Manly could capture this market and have tried to in the past only to have been blocked by the Bears, with the NRL's help and some time they could grow their brand in that market without a great deal of trouble, just as the Dragons could in the Shire.

It would take time and money, but if we could pull it off it would be worth it.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

What hate? I don't hate Cronulla, I'm just realistic about which way the game should be heading and that's not desperately trying to hold onto Sydney clubs at a huge financial cost and at the expense of the rest of the competition and it's expansion possibilities.

Even if Cronulla do survive this next episode (which for the record is possible) they should be relocated or merged.

I didn't even bring them up in our conversation you did.



The CC Bears bid is a bad idea for many reasons, the main one is that it would condemn the Eagles to become another Cronulla when that can be avoided.

If we really want a team on the CC, which isn't necessarily a bad idea but shouldn't be high the list of priorities right now, it can't be the Bears.

As for the Bears sway in North Sydney, it's dying. Anybody under the age of 25 doesn't have much of a connection to the Bears apart from what their parents have told them, that's a whole generation and growing. Manly could capture this market and have tried to in the past only to have been blocked by the Bears, with the NRL's help and some time they could grow their brand in that market without a great deal of trouble, just as the Dragons could in the Shire.

It would take time and money, but if we could pull it off it would be worth it.

Honestly mate, you can f**k off.

You just proved my point you're a closest fan of the Dragons.

This is not the 1960's anymore.

You sir are a troll of the highest order.

Why should the Dragons be any stronger when they already have the Wollongong area?

As far as the Bears are concerned, why should Manly benefit by doing what they did to the Bears.

The Bears were around a lot longer than Manly ever were.

Nobody in the Shire wants the Dragons, this is Cronulla territory.

 

[reanimate]

The club that went broke and merged with Norths only to knife them and now struggling again themselves off the field.

The club that went broke holding Super League off. Norths were on a downhill slide before that and the Super League war and its outcomes finished them off.

As for the CC/NS Bears- there's a whole thread dedicated to that in the Expansion forum. Have a read of it.

 

[Perth Red]

Manly, Penrith and Cronulla are all on borrowed time unless they really relaunch themselves and find new audiences and new funding sources. Manly have had the luxury of a great team to help keep the wolves from the door, Cronulla are stuffed unless the development actually delivers massive funding which from what I have seen may not be the case, Penrith may only be saved by the fact they are the most Western club and the NRL is pathetic in its worries about GWS. Any one of them reloacting would have min impact on the success of the NRL in Sydney, imo.

 

[reanimate]

Manly, Penrith and Cronulla are all on borrowed time unless they really relaunch themselves and find new audiences and new funding sources. Manly have had the luxury of a great team to help keep the wolves from the door, Cronulla are stuffed unless the development actually delivers massive funding which from what I have seen may not be the case, Penrith may only be saved by the fact they are the most Western club and the NRL is pathetic in its worries about GWS. Any one of them reloacting would have min impact on the success of the NRL in Sydney, imo.

There's another fact that's going to prevent anything from happening to Manly- we're the only NRL team north of the Harbour Bridge. The NRL can't afford to let that entire market go, while Manly's reach can be extended to cover the whole area north of the Harbour Bridge.

 

[The Great Dane]

Honestly mate, you can f**k off.

You just proved my point you're a closest fan of the Dragons.

This is not the 1960's anymore.

You sir are a troll of the highest order.

Why should the Dragons be any stronger when they already have the Wollongong area?

Seriously....

That's just desperate and sad.

As far as the Bears are concerned, why should Manly benefit by doing what they did to the Bears.

You'll get no argument from me the Bears-Manly situation sucked, but it is what it is and we've got to work with the hand we've been dealt.

The Bears were around a lot longer than Manly ever were.

Seriously going to go with the 'divine right' argument again, well sh!t we better re-form Glebe, Cumberland and Annandale, promote Sydney University back into the top league and replace the knights with the rebels, because you know they were there first and it's their right to play in top league.

Nobody in the Shire wants the Dragons, this is Cronulla territory.

Yeah ten years ago nobody in North Sydney wanted the Eagles, things change.

 

[The Great Dane]

There's another fact that's going to prevent anything from happening to Manly- we're the only NRL team north of the Harbour Bridge. The NRL can't afford to let that entire market go, while Manly's reach can be extended to cover the whole area north of the Harbour Bridge.

Playing devil's advocate, but they could relocate the Eagles and at the same time relaunch the Bears as the North Sydney CC Bears and have them play games at Gosford and in North Sydney kind of like the Dragons do with Win and Kogarah.

The Bears brand still holds weight and the Sea Eagles could maintain a strong presence outside of Sydney, it would solve a lot of problems and isn't necessarily a bad idea.

 

[reanimate]

Playing devil's advocate, but they could relocate the Eagles and at the same time relaunch the Bears as the North Sydney CC Bears and have them play games at Gosford and in North Sydney kind of like the Dragons do with Win and Kogarah.

The Bears brand still holds weight and the Sea Eagles could maintain a strong presence outside of Sydney, it would solve a lot of problems and isn't necessarily a bad idea.

They could, but that would be two huge moves to make. The NRL is likely to want to take the conservative approach and work with the existing NRL teams before making any huge moves like that.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Seriously....

That's just desperate and sad.



You'll get no argument from me the Bears-Manly situation sucked, but it is what it is and we've got to work with the hand we've been dealt.



Seriously going to go with the 'divine right' argument again, well sh!t we better re-form Glebe, Cumberland and Annandale, promote Sydney University back into the top league and replace the knights with the rebels, because you know they were there first and it's their right to play in top league.



Yeah ten years ago nobody in North Sydney wanted the Eagles, things change.

Honestly GD, you are a waste of f**king oxygen.

You are a f**king imbecile wanting my club out of the league just to strengthen your beloved Dragons.

Instead of relocating us it probably would be better to relocate the Dragons down to the Gong permanently and absorb the St George juniors into the Cronulla Junior League.

The St George juniors don't have that many junior clubs in that area anymore where as the Cronulla Junior League has twice as many.

It's a win win situation then.

 

[The Great Dane]

Honestly GD, you are a waste of f**king oxygen.

You are a f**king imbecile wanting my club out of the league just to strengthen your beloved Dragons.

Instead of relocating us it probably would be better to relocate the Dragons down to the Gong permanently and absorb the St George juniors into the Cronulla Junior League.

The St George juniors don't have that many junior clubs in that area anymore where as the Cronulla Junior League has twice as many.

It's a win win situation then.

F##k me your immature.

I couldn't give a flying f##k about the Dragons, except for the fact that to keep the NRL strong for the foreseeable future they need to be part of the competition. That may change in the future but for now that's how things are.

The Dragons are a stronger brand then the Sharks, that's why when everybody talks about the rationalization of Sydney they talk about moving the Sharks out and not the Dragons. Put simply there's more risk and less to gain from relocating the Dragons then the Sharks.

On the other hand I agree that the Dragons should be based in Wollongong full time, I think I've only said that about 100 times now.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

F##k me your immature.

I couldn't give a flying f##k about the Dragons, except for the fact that to keep the NRL strong for the foreseeable future they need to be part of the competition. That may change in the future but for now that's how things are.

The Dragons are a stronger brand then the Sharks, that's why when everybody talks about the rationalization of Sydney they talk about moving the Sharks out and not the Dragons. Put simply there's more risk and less to gain from relocating the Dragons then the Sharks.

On the other hand I agree that the Dragons should be based in Wollongong full time, I think I've only said that about 100 times now.

How is being passionate about my club being immature ffs?

Of course they're a stronger brand, that goes with the history and tradition they've had going back years.

It is still absurd to move us out though.

The Shire has a population of over 200,000 people which is more than a lot of areas of Sydney.

Like I said earlier, it makes more sense to move the Dragons down to Wollongong permanently and absorb the St George juniors into the Cronulla Junior League.

 

[The Great Dane]

How is being passionate about my club being immature ffs?

Yeah because insisting that I must be a Dragons fan is passion for your club and isn't immature. :sarcasm:

Of course they're a stronger brand, that goes with the history and tradition they've had going back years.

The age of a brand doesn't always equate to the value of that brand.

It is still absurd to move us out though.

The Shire has a population of over 200,000 people which is more than a lot of areas of Sydney.

Which counts for jack sh!t if you can't covert the access to that population into profit and sustainability.

Like I said earlier, it makes more sense to move the Dragons down to Wollongong permanently and absorb the St George juniors into the Cronulla Junior League.

It makes absolutely no sense at all!

In the best case scenario all you would be doing is weakening one club to strengthen the other, basically swapping the roles of each club around. Why do that when you could could strengthen both clubs by relocating one to an untapped market, logically the weaker one with less presence in their current area and strengthen both clubs without adversely affecting either!?

The difference between you and I is that you are passionate about the survival of the Sharks in Cronulla at any cost, where I am more passionate about the growth of the game of RL as a whole and it's prosperity.

In other words you care more about your favorite club then success of the sport of RL as a whole, where I'm the opposite if I had to sacrifice the Raiders to make the sport of RL the most popular sport in Australasia then I would, you could never make the same sacrifice of the Sharks even if it was the whole universe on offer.

 

[Mr. Sharky]

Yeah because insisting that I must be a Dragons fan is passion for your club and isn't immature. :sarcasm:



The age of a brand doesn't always equate to the value of that brand.



Which counts for jack sh!t if you can't covert the access to that population into profit and sustainability.



It makes absolutely no sense at all!

In the best case scenario all you would be doing is weakening one club to strengthen the other, basically swapping the roles of each club around. Why do that when you could could strengthen both clubs by relocating one to an untapped market, logically the weaker one with less presence in their current area and strengthen both clubs without adversely affecting either!?

The difference between you and I is that you are passionate about the survival of the Sharks in Cronulla at any cost, where I am more passionate about the growth of the game of RL as a whole and it's prosperity.

In other words you care more about your favorite club then success of the sport of RL as a whole, where I'm the opposite if I had to sacrifice the Raiders to make the sport of RL the most popular sport in Australasia then I would, you could never make the same sacrifice of the Sharks even if it was the whole universe on offer.

Fact is I couldn't give a rat's arse about the NRL if Cronulla aren't in the competition.

It would mean nothing to me if my club wasn't in the competition.

You're a dickhead of the highest order to tell Cronulla fans that we have no right to be in the competition.

Yes I care more about my own club than that of the competition itself.

Other than having a passing interest in Souths and Parramatta as they are the teams my parents follow, I couldn't give a shit about the other clubs in the competition.

Now that Cronulla's season has ended, I couldn't care less about the rest of the NRL season, I now eagerly await the start of the cricket season even though Australia are shite.