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NRL: Lets talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.

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flippikat

Bench
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4,453
could always go to 20 teams, which would spread the money thinner, which would put more stress on struggling clubs who would then fold or drop a tier, then eventually we're left with 18-16 teams again anyway, and if not then we get to keep a 20 team comp with all the clubs surviving, so win-win

That's what I suspect may happen if we go to 20 teams (financial pressure on Sydney clubs, leading us back to 18 or 16 teams).. but if it can be made to work with 20, I'd be happy with that - adding Brisbane 2, Perth in next expansion.. then NZ 2 and either Adelaide, Brisbane 3 or Melbourne 2 as the 20th team.

I think Stallion and Perth Red both have good arguments, (yes tradition matters.. and a strong traditional club can be a league's greatest asset, but very few national leagues have the concentration of teams in one city that NRL has - there must be an economic reason why...), and I'm wary of whether Sydney can sustain the teams it has, against so many "one town teams". We already have a huge gap between the "haves" and the "have nots".
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
That's what I suspect may happen if we go to 20 teams (financial pressure on Sydney clubs, leading us back to 18 or 16 teams).. but if it can be made to work with 20, I'd be happy with that - adding Brisbane 2, Perth in next expansion.. then NZ 2 and either Adelaide, Brisbane 3 or Melbourne 2 as the 20th team.

I think Stallion and Perth Red both have good arguments, (yes tradition matters.. and a strong traditional club can be a league's greatest asset, but very few national leagues have the concentration of teams in one city that NRL has - there must be an economic reason why...), and I'm wary of whether Sydney can sustain the teams it has, against so many "one town teams". We already have a huge gap between the "haves" and the "have nots".

Cultural significance and longevity of recognition and familiarity are the main reasons why the Sydney clubs are necessary going forward. They have established credibility and notoriety like no other clubs. This is very important for a competition's credibility going forward. The tv era of increased rugby league exposure necessarily made these clubs household names. In Australia it matters very much. Lose the casual neutral fan through a perceived lack of credibility, then you lose the plot! This is already manifesting itself in Northern Sydney. The loss of the Bears has given the code vulnerability in this region. Manly Warringah struggles ?and subsequently no local derby to keep the locals keen! Australia's biggest city deserves it's cherished top flight rugby league clubs and so does the multititude of fans outside of Sydney. Add clubs elsewhere by all means, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
could always go to 20 teams, which would spread the money thinner, which would put more stress on struggling clubs who would then fold or drop a tier, then eventually we're left with 18-16 teams again anyway, and if not then we get to keep a 20 team comp with all the clubs surviving, so win-win

I would also suggest that more teams would and should attract more interest and sponsorship. Tv should welcome the extra reach of the code in places like WA and an extra Brisbane home game meaning rl every weekend plus a new massive local derby for Brisbane if common sense finally prevails. Such additional clubs would value add to the NRL. Not make it the same pie for more teams. In fact make it a bigger pie for more teams!?
 

mave

Coach
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13,060
My answer is that each club has different strengths. I would suggest that Manly's exhorbitant general entry ticket prices ($33 for the hill) has been a big factor along with an underperformed team. These things matter and when a local derby rival is no more: the cream from this twice yearly local event is also lost . That's what's happened. Northern Sydney is a very concerning area for the NRL and the reasons for this have been shown in some way in our discussion.


The fact that Brookie is a dilapidated old bag of sht is the biggest factor, imo.

Most Manly fans want to stay there, but it is a serious impediment to growth, both for fans, and especially for corporate.

Negligible parking, negligible public transport options, zero food and drink experience, poor seating experience, there is still a cage that has to be engaged to allow the players to run out, blocking access for half the ground FFS, cant get a MediCab onto the playing surface, etc, etc....
The best part of Brookie is the hill, and the fact that it costs GA to sit on the halfway line, elevated.

Times have changed Stallion, local derbys at suburban grounds like Brookie will not draw 20k anymore, Foxtel is too easy.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
The fact that Brookie is a dilapidated old bag of sht is the biggest factor, imo.

Most Manly fans want to stay there, but it is a serious impediment to growth, both for fans, and especially for corporate.

Negligible parking, negligible public transport options, zero food and drink experience, poor seating experience, there is still a cage that has to be engaged to allow the players to run out, blocking access for half the ground FFS, cant get a MediCab onto the playing surface, etc, etc....
The best part of Brookie is the hill, and the fact that it costs GA to sit on the halfway line, elevated.

Times have changed Stallion, local derbys at suburban grounds like Brookie will not draw 20k anymore, Foxtel is too easy.

I agree with the grandstand parts of the ground. However you point out the hill is its best feature. People want the hill! So it's poor amenities and seating infrastructure! ? Pretty sure fans still enjoy the hill?Just like fans enjoy the hills of Kogarah, Wollongong, Leichardt etc. To me ticket pricing and losing a main local rival has hurt the code in this region. These are factors that are real and have happened and I'm sure a big part of the issuesport for this rugby league club. Disgruntled fans are going to other grounds with hills for other codes. That is clearly happening in this area.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
I agree with the grandstand parts of the ground. However you point out the hill is its best feature. People want the hill! So it's poor amenities and seating infrastructure! ? Pretty sure fans still enjoy the hill?Just like fans enjoy the hills of Kogarah, Wollongong, Leichardt etc. To me ticket pricing and losing a main local rival has hurt the code in this region. These are factors that are real and have happened and I'm sure a big part of the issuesport for this rugby league club. Disgruntled fans are going to other grounds with hills for other codes. That is clearly happening in this area.

People want the hill? , ffs manly avg’d 8500 people this year, that’s how much people want the hill! On the other hand I’m currently watching cricket in a state of the art modern stadium where 40k people have turned up, all willing to pay more than $20!
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
People want the hill? , ffs manly avg’d 8500 people this year, that’s how much people want the hill! On the other hand I’m currently watching cricket in a state of the art modern stadium where 40k people have turned up, all willing to pay more than $20!

Yes. People still enjoy the hill! You really have no idea do you!?
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Not many people, that is the point. The numbers don’t lie!

Your numbers lie! The support is greater than you have assessed. I've touched on the term 'latent' support .It is real, however is prompted with the success of the team at a given time. This is still an interest in the code. When you eliminate such support that type of supporter (Bears gone for example), you also take that support and relevance for rugby league away. The Bears supporters have been disenfranchised, Manly have lost a longstanding local rivalry and rugby league loses customers. They might not be your type of customer but their interest in rugby league has gone! For instance their has been a dropoff in viewing numbers for rugby league on tv since the demise of the North Sydney Bears in northern Sydney .
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,138
I know so many work colleagues who work out rydalmere way, who supported and still would support the bears, if they they have a chance to return to top flight, most of them are tradies that live in gosford, but travel to sydney for work. We go to most of the bears games now, and are always bringing up the rivalry with manly, and mostly the failed merger, i honestly think if the northern eagles, were called northern bears, the franchise would still be there, but in saying that manly obviously would never had merged under that reason. Basically theyd be in illawarras shoes, i grew up watching the bears as a kid, and most of my mates are balmain supporters, so its sad to see both these iconic foundation clubs wither off, as many other teams have done in the past, wests tigers aren't the same as the tigers of balmain, i cannot remember the last time they wore orange as their primary uniform, always the black or white, i think the last one i saw was the aboriginal jersey that was closest, little things like that urk me, as i grew up in ryde, and both those teams were prominent at my school growing up, now its all parra jerseys at all the local shops, im for expansion, but i also want to see the iconic clubs to still exist too, even if they move cities, id be ok with it, just as long as the club still has its heritage existing or a link to it, i dont see that in the merged teams at all, its a shame, i know the magpies side of the club is stronger financially as was the manly side of the northern eagles too, i kinda hoped the magpies just called themselves magpies, instead of the tigers, Atleast it would be the truth, same as easts, i know why they want to be called Sydney, and i feel thats wrong especially when there are 8 other teams representing parts of sydney also
 
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Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
I know so many work colleagues who work out rydalmere way, who supported and still would support the bears, if they they have a chance to return to top flight, most of them are tradies that live in gosford, but travel to sydney for work. We go to most of the bears games now, and are always bringing up the rivalry with manly, and mostly the failed merger, i honestly think if the northern eagles, were called northern bears, the franchise would still be there, but in saying that manly obviously would never had merged under that reason. Basically theyd be in illawarras shoes, i grew up watching the bears as a kid, and most of my mates are balmain supporters, so its sad to see both these iconic foundation clubs wither off, as many other teams have done in the past, wests tigers aren't the same as the tigers of balmain, i cannot remember the last time they wore orange as their primary uniform, always the black or white, i think the last one i saw was the aboriginal jersey that was closest, little things like that urk me, as i grew up in ryde, and both those teams were prominent at my school growing up, now its all parra jerseys at all the local shops, im for expansion, but i also want to see the iconic clubs to still exist too, even if they move cities, id be ok with it, just as long as the club still has its heritage existing, i dont see that in the merged teams at all, its a shame

Fully agree. It makes a massive difference. It's as if this great competition is moving on with a massive taint over it! The Bears should have their place in the sun as the Central Coast Bears. A better setup for Wests Tigers would have been maintaining Balmain in the name with something like the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and also having Wests Suburbs Magpies a relocation franchise called the West Coast Magpies or West Australian Magpies . All clubs still maintaining links with original areas and colours just like we see with the Swans/Bloods arrangement in the AFL. Unfortunately the lack of imagination and respect for these iconic RL clubs has been lacking and failed by poor administrators over the past twenty years .
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,138
A better setup for Wests Tigers would have been maintaining Balmain in the name with something like the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and also having Wests Suburbs Magpies a relocation franchise called the West Coast Magpies or West Australian Magpies . All clubs still maintaining links with original areas and colours just like we see with the Swans/Bloods arrangement in the AFL.


I'd be more happier seeing the tigers in perth, than magpies leave campbelltown, tigers could do wonders with a whole state backing them, if they would want it of course, also having a few games at leichardt too
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I'd be more happier seeing the tigers in perth, than magpies leave campbelltown, tigers could do wonders with a whole state backing them, if they would want it of course, also having a few games at leichardt too

Just think the link between West Suburbs Magpies and West Australian Magpies is more appropriate. Don't think the Balmain name could be incorporated into a West Australian franchise name either whereas Balmain Campbelltown Tigers or Balmain (McArthur? )Tigers etc would still enable the iconic Balmain name to feature in the "sun".
 
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titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,356
Wrong. I support my club. No membership doesn't mean you don't support them. You are missing the cultural relevance and value for money point for the supporter. I purchase paraphernalia like Roosters watches, beach towels, socks, car number plates etc. This promotes the Roosters. I would suggest "nothing" is not accurate or fair. This is despite my disdain for the Roosters being known as the "Sydney Roosters." I much prefer a more accurate name such as the East Sydney Roosters . Very doable but they continue on with just "Sydney Roosters". I might add their is a large amount of Roosters fans that do a chant at games which has a clap routine and then EASTS, EASTS, EASTS verbalized to all around. Very telltale and shows a yearning for historical and locality relevance in my opinion.

Cut the waffle about the name. You buy merchandise? Great! Then you are helping your club, good to hear.

Do you acknowledge that there is a difference between a supporter that attends games, buys memberships, buys merchandise etc and a supporter that does none of those things and casually follows a team from afar?

Do you also acklowledge that there are some Sydney NRL clubs that are bigger than others?

Trying to get a straight answer to questions from you is trying to herd cats.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Just think the link between West Suburbs Magpies and West Australian Magpies is more appropriate. Don't think the Balmain name could be incorporated into a West Australian franchise name either whereas Balmain Campbelltown Tigers or Balmain (McArthur? )Tigers etc would still enable the iconic Balmain name to feature in the "sun".

What link are you talking about?
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Cut the waffle about the name. You buy merchandise? Great! Then you are helping your club, good to hear.

Do you acknowledge that there is a difference between a supporter that attends games, buys memberships, buys merchandise etc and a supporter that does none of those things and casually follows a team from afar?

Do you also acklowledge that there are some Sydney NRL clubs that are bigger than others?

Trying to get a straight answer to questions from you is trying to herd cats.

Lol. I'd suggest you're the one not playing with a straight bat!? Different clubs have different strengths! clubs can be better in various aspects of 'support' compared to eachother. For instance the generational support of all Sydney clubs would be far greater than recently admitted clubs?!
And their is no 'waffle' about the appropriate naming of a club. It matters very much!
 
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