18th club, whose next?

[AlwaysGreen]

Is there any relevance to club 18 in all this discussion?

Sorry. Afl. Pokie dens, V'landys, afl, grassroots, dripline, afl.

Is that better?

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Its the culture of a club that is the problem with teams like the dragons and tigers. You've got people in key positions at some clubs who are only interested in keeping their and their mates jobs rather than winning premierships.

Because winning premierships is what its all about in the end. Of course you can't win every year but you've at least have to have a plan of how to win one.

 

[Canard]

Is there any relevance to club 18 in all this discussion?

Trying to dispute the thought that because clubs are badly run, we shouldn't expand further.

 

[Pneuma]

Sorry. Afl. Pokie dens, V'landys, afl, grassroots, dripline, afl.

Is that better?

He safer discussing his favourite code. Less spite.

 

[Perth Red]

Trying to dispute the thought that because clubs are badly run, we shouldn't expand further.

Fair enough, there's always been badly run clubs. In UK there is a penalty for it, here they are just allowed to bumble along for years with no real consequence.

 

[Centy Coast]

It makes me wonder if we should just bring back the St George Dragons and Western Sydney Magpies and let the Illawarra Steelers and Balmain Tigers die.

How could you kill off the Illawarra side of the merger, that is where all the junior players come from.
It’s managements fault that they don’t keep all the good ones.

 

[Centy Coast]

Fair enough, there's always been badly run clubs. In UK there is a penalty for it, here they are just allowed to bumble along for years with no real consequence.

This is where promotion and relegation works in their competition

 

[Centy Coast]

Trying to dispute the thought that because clubs are badly run, we shouldn't expand further.

Just because clubs are badly run shouldn’t stop expansion.
I’ve said this before in discussions if new clubs need to meet a certain criteria to enter the NRL then existing clubs should meet a criteria to stay in the NRL.
Nothing should be taken for granted or taken as a given.
I’m definately salty because of the Bears situation and how the ARL dogged them yet has helped out so many other teams with financial handouts over the years.

 

[Canard]

Fair enough, there's always been badly run clubs. In UK there is a penalty for it, here they are just allowed to bumble along for years with no real consequence.

This is where promotion and relegation works in their competition

I don't think it does, has it actively promoted expansion? I would say its very much a relic of a bygone era.

It most certainly wouldn't be sustainable in Australia, given our small population, the lack of funding available and lack of systems below the NRL to prepare a club for the jump up or step down.

There is always clubs that run into bad patch, imagine if the Broncos were relegated after 2020, what a f**king disaster that would be for the NRL TV deal, sponsorship and crowds.

And I don't agree that there are no consquences in Australia, chairman, coaches and administrators lose there jobs in poor performing teams.

 

[Wb1234]

This is where promotion and relegation works in their competition

It doesn’t

Bradford got relegated and are now a basket case

toulouse got relegated and replaced by a second club in Wigan

it only works in soccer because they have fifty decent sized clubs

 

[Brian potter]

It doesn’t

Bradford got relegated and are now a basket case

bradford were a basket case club before they were relegated.

toulouse got relegated and replaced by a second club in Wigan

Toulouse paid the price for poor squad additions for their maiden super league campaign and leigh are currently benefiting from their strong squad additions in both their promotion to super league and current high placing on the ladder.

it only works in soccer because they have fifty decent sized clubs

and it’s the national game.

 

[Perth Red]

It doesn’t

Bradford got relegated and are now a basket case

toulouse got relegated and replaced by a second club in Wigan

it only works in soccer because they have fifty decent sized clubs

Toulouse, London, Toronto or any other possible expansion area have a direct path to the top comp and know exactly what they need to acheive to get there. Meanwhile places like perth continue to have no way of getting in the nrl other than sporadic hope despite being a potential strong addition.

 

[Wb1234]

Toulouse, London, Toronto or any other possible expansion area have a direct path to the top comp and know exactly what they need to acheive to get there. Meanwhile places like perth continue to have no way of getting in the nrl other than sporadic hope despite being a potential strong addition.

It’s the equivalent of the nrl allowing broncos to get relegated

Toronto got no share of the tv money

too many clubs right next door to each other

 

[Canard]

Toulouse, London, Toronto or any other possible expansion area have a direct path to the top comp and know exactly what they need to acheive to get there. Meanwhile places like perth continue to have no way of getting in the nrl other than sporadic hope despite being a potential strong addition.

And yet none of those clubs are even remotely close to being in the SuperLeague.

Sounds good in theory but in practice it's not working to aid expansion.

It would also be challenging to attract long term sponsors and investors knowing you could be relegated any time, and spend huge money getting to the top tier only to get relegated immediately.

The TV deal in Australia would be significantly less, or need to be adjusted annually if clubs could be relegated annually.

 

[Pneuma]

And yet none of those clubs are even remotely close to being in the SuperLeague.

Sounds good in theory but in practice it's not working to aid expansion.

It would also be challenging to attract long term sponsors and investors knowing you could be relegated any time, and spend huge money getting to the top tier only to get relegated immediately.

The TV deal in Australia would be significantly less, or need to be adjusted annually if clubs could be relegated annually.

And in any case what company in its right mind would invest long term in a club that could disappear into 2nd division in the next 12 months? They’d go to another sport and invest there. The idea is beyond ridiculous

 

[Dark Corner]

It's also interesting that 2 of the 3 clubs are joint-venture clubs, trying to appease multiple separate supporter & governance bases.

I don't know what the answer is - maybe it's basing the Dragons even more in Wollongong or relocating one of those 3 clubs (inter-state? Maybe..) but something's got to change.

Out of the terrible trio, I think the Bulldogs stand the best chance of turning it around - not being a JV means they have a unified direction, Gould is big on pathway development (and that's showing signs in lower grade/age-group of producing something), and they're un-tying the knots in their salary cap.. but I have real doubts about the other two.

West's or Bulldogs go to the Central Coast ?

 

[Dark Corner]

Its not uncommon for professional sporting teams in all codes to go through long periods of poor performance, though.

Fans of some codes throughout the world and even NRL clubs would laugh at a Dragons fan complaining they haven't won anything in only 12 seasons, or even the Tigers in 18.

The most popular League in any sport in the world is the EPL and look how many have won the Premiership and even on finals day at Wembley but the game is still massive in my home town despite how many failures Newcastle have had.

 

[Centy Coast]

West's or Bulldogs go to the Central Coast ?

I can imagine all the habibis’ up here drowning in the surf hahaha

 

[flippikat]

West's or Bulldogs go to the Central Coast ?

Don't the Roosters have some kinda feeder arrangement with that area?

I'm not against the idea of one of those teams relocating there, mind you..

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Your original point was that the merged clubs needed to split to be successful.

When I pointed out that un-merged clubs can have dysfunctional boards, you furiously agreed with me.

And then made my original point, teams need to be well run in order to succeed, geography has nothing to do with it.

Geography does play a role in the misfortune of region clubs. It makes it harder to recruit and generate third party sponsorship deals for marquee signings.

Standalone clubs can be dysfunctional. Key word being "can". Merged entities are always dysfunctional. Key word being "always".