18th club, whose next?

[The Great Dane]

I'm beginning to suspect you don't know what position you hold. A look at your thoughts on this subject between 2020 and 2022 back me up on this.

I stand by basically all of what you've reposted there. Yet I've read and reread it and fail to see where any of it claims that I ever wanted or believed that the new side needed 'to be run by local businessmen'. . . Because, you know, that's not a position I hold...

Your subtle accusations of hypocrisy are stupid. What the NRL should be looking for in a Perth or Adelaide side isn't the same as Brisbane. Brisbane 2 could and should have been an unstoppable behemoth capable of truly rivalling the Broncos, unfortunately that's unlikely to happen now, but I digress. Considering the market pressures such a club isn't realistic in Perth or Adelaide, at least not within any foreseeable future. However that doesn't mean that they aren't worth doing for their own reasons.

In other words not every club is made equal or capable of being, e.g., the Yankees or Lakers. That isn't a problem, it just is what it is, and holding every club to those lofty standards isn't just stupid, it's self defeating. Brisbane 2 however was capable of being the Yankees or Lakers, but the NRL dropped the ball, they just haven't realised it yet, and probably won't for at least the better part of a decade.

On Dolphins attendances:

• You don't get to cherry pick attendances at Suncorp to try and cover for one of their most monumental f**kups. They averaged 25,562 in 2023, when a second Brisbane side easily should have been pulling an average closer to 30K, potentially more, in their first year.
BTW, that's another one of my predictions that was spot on, and that 25k average attendance was significantly boosted by the derby and Perth double header, which is highly ironic given your positions on the Broncos and Perth.

• The same thing will happen to the Dolphins crowds as happens to a lot of expansion clubs that enter with a bit of pomp and circumstance; the novelty will wear off, the time commitment and financial realities of supporting a side with set in, and the poseurs will bleed away. You didn't even see out their first season, in fact you abandoned them pretty much as soon as they won the license LOL.

I mean what happened to the Titans attendances of 21k in 07 and 08 for example? They dropped down to their lowest of 11k in 2015 and 19, and haven't really got near those early highs in their last 15 seasons despite having all that time to build support. Similar will happen to the Dolphins unless they're reasonably successful on the pitch, in which case finals runs and premierships will paper over the cracks like they do at a lot of clubs (including the Raiders FTM).

I also find it weird that you think saying that Bombers bid could have been much better if they made a host of changes is some kind of endorsement, or speaking 'positively' about them. All of the bids could have been much better if they were open and accepting of major changes, and the fact that I was suggesting those changes shows that I had a negative opinion of their actual bids...

Of all of the stuff that you've randomly selected in your stupid attempt at a gotcha, this line probably best encapsulates my opinion on the bid teams and expansion in Brisbane;

I'm not really a big supporter of any of the Brisbane bids, they all seem deeply flawed to me

 

[Gardenia]

Yet they will have no money coming in from anywhere else because the majority of their fans won’t be able to afford to travel to away games, buy official merchandise, become club members, attend games regularly at NRL prices, makes perfect sense.

Yes but without being too heavy, if China get a base in any of these pacific nations, we are screwed. We need to do whatever it takes to butter up our pacific nation friends, and the Papua New Guinea's love their footy.

 

[Perth Red]

Yes but without being too heavy, if China get a base in any of these pacific nations, we are screwed. We need to do whatever it takes to butter up our pacific nation friends, and the Papua New Guinea's love their footy.

If China wanted to invade Australia we’d be screwed regardless of where they had bases, to think otherwise is stupidity.

 

[Brian potter]

Yes but without being too heavy, if China get a base in any of these pacific nations, we are screwed. We need to do whatever it takes to butter up our pacific nation friends, and the Papua New Guinea's love their footy.

Maybe Australia should adopt a more neutral position and tell the yanks to get f#cked.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I stand by basically all of what you've reposted there. Yet I've read and reread it and fail to see where any of it claims that I ever wanted or believed that the new side needed 'to be run by local businessmen'. . . Because, you know, that's not a position I hold...

You bragged about the Bombers being backed by wealthy investors who have a foot in the local RL community:

I mean they've got solid money behind them (or at least they did prior to covid), they seem to have successful businessmen behind them, and they've already got strong connections in the footy community, and the money to get good footy minds behind them.​

Weren't the businessmen you were talking about powerbrokers who held a position with the Broncos Thoroughbreds in the 1990s?

If so then they were as local as it gets.

Your subtle accusations of hypocrisy are stupid. What the NRL should be looking for in a Perth or Adelaide side isn't the same as Brisbane. Brisbane 2 could and should have been an unstoppable behemoth capable of truly rivalling the Broncos, unfortunately that's unlikely to happen now, but I digress. Considering the market pressures such a club isn't realistic in Perth or Adelaide, at least not within any foreseeable future. However that doesn't mean that they aren't worth doing for their own reasons.

So it's okay for Adelaide and Perth to have financially weak clubs that lack fans, but Brisbane 2 needed to be a carbon copy of the Broncos?

Do you know how obnoxious and stupid you sound with these double standards?

You try to come across as an intellectual, but it's obvious you've got a massive chip on your shoulder against the status quo and argue for the sake of it.

In other words not every club is made equal or capable of being, e.g., the Yankees or Lakers. That isn't a problem, it just is what it is, and holding every club to those lofty standards isn't just stupid, it's self defeating. Brisbane 2 however was capable of being the Yankees or Lakers, but the NRL dropped the ball, they just haven't realised it yet, and probably won't for at least the better part of a decade.

You're entitled to be a hypocrite and have a stupid opinion, but don't pretend it's a "fact". What you think should happen isn't a fact. It's just your opinion. The ARLC's refusal to embrace your opinion doesn't mean they're incompetent.

On Dolphins attendances:

• You don't get to cherry pick attendances at Suncorp to try and cover for one of their most monumental f**kups. They averaged 25,562 in 2023, when a second Brisbane side easily should have been pulling an average closer to 30K, potentially more, in their first year.

The club did make a huge mistake not playing all of its games at Lang Park.

It was dumb holding games at a venue that has a capacity of 11.5k. However, ghose games were sold out and the club drew an average of 32k fans to the 7 or 8 they played at Lang Park. The only reason you're including the games at Dolphin Ovalis because you cannot bear to admit that the Dolphins were able to draw an average attendance of 32k at Lang Park.

The Dolphins' attendances at Lang Park were just 4-5k below the Broncos'.

Reasonable people would acknowledge that the Dolphins' attendances at Lang Paek aren't far behind the Broncos'.

BTW, that's another one of my predictions that was spot on, and that 25k average attendance was significantly boosted by the derby and Perth double header, which is highly ironic given your positions on the Broncos and Perth.

How many did you predict they would get at Lang Park?

• The same thing will happen to the Dolphins crowds as happens to a lot of expansion clubs that enter with a bit of pomp and circumstance; the novelty will wear off, the time commitment and financial realities of supporting a side with set in, and the poseurs will bleed away. You didn't even see out their first season, in fact you abandoned them pretty much as soon as they won the license LOL.

I didn't abandon the club. I have health issues and commitments that make it very difficult to attend NRL games.

I mean what happened to the Titans attendances of 21k in 07 and 08 for example? They dropped down to their lowest of 11k in 2015 and 19, and haven't really got near those early highs in their last 15 seasons despite having all that time to build support. Similar will happen to the Dolphins unless they're reasonably successful on the pitch, in which case finals runs and premierships will paper over the cracks like they do at a lot of clubs (including the Raiders FTM).

Why are you comparing the Dolphins with the Titans?

One club is a started from scratch with a neutral brand in a regional city. The other is a traditional BRL club from the world's second largest rugby league city.

I also find it weird that you think saying that Bombers bid could have been much better if they made a host of changes is some kind of endorsement, or speaking 'positively' about them. All of the bids could have been much better if they were open and accepting of major changes, and the fact that I was suggesting those changes shows that I had a negative opinion of their actual bids...

You praised them for having a neutral brand and support from the businessmen associated with the Broncos Thoroughbreds.

I found this gem from Sept 22 2020:

The AFL alienated a huge portion of the potential fan base for the second Adelaide club when they announced it would be Port Adelaide instead of a neutral club.

The NRL can't afford to do that in Brisbane, mainly because it's f**king stupid to knowingly alienate so many potential customers, but also because none of the QRL clubs have demonstrable support large enough to support an NRL club.

At the end of the day it really comes down to whether you want a small suburban club or a club with mass appeal. Why you'd want a suburban club that struggles to make ends meet IDK, but that is the question.

Redcliffe put their hand up

you keep picking out one metric and using it to judge whether a team in valuable or not, this time it's ratings in New Zealand. So Perth is not valuable because people in NZ won't watch them? seriously? Who said Skysports is going to fork out big money for a second NZ team anyway? do they even...

forums.leagueunlimited.com

The Dolphins drew an average of 32k fans to Lang Park over 7 or 8 games. That suggests their fanbase is more than big enough to make ends meet. Just accept you are wrong. Everyone can see it but you.

 

[Wb1234]

So that would be the most profitable football club in Australia

that’s the way to build a strong Comp is clubs like these

 

[Wb1234]

So that would be the most profitable football club in Australia

that’s the way to build a strong Comp is clubs like these

Increases funding to community programs by the club

 

[Canard]

The fact that a vast majority of people are already calling for further expansion in Brisbane ostensibly to cater fans who don't support the Dolphins, is proof enough that this was a far from perfect bid.

Playing 4 games in a 10k suburban shitbox yearly is what really grinds my gears though.

 

[Centy Coast]

Yes but without being too heavy, if China get a base in any of these pacific nations, we are screwed. We need to do whatever it takes to butter up our pacific nation friends, and the Papua New Guinea's love their footy.

C’mon you don’t think China don’t already own most of the Pacific region and Australia already lol

 

[Iamback]

The fact that a vast majority of people are already calling for further expansion in Brisbane ostensibly to cater fans who don't support the Dolphins, is proof enough that this was a far from perfect bid.

Playing 4 games in a 10k suburban shitbox yearly is what really grinds my gears though.

As opposed to fighting against Broncos, Reds and so on for sponsors?

That 10k shitbox is the 2nd highest capacity rectangle oval in a RL city, That is the issue with that

 

[mongoose]

As opposed to fighting against Broncos, Reds and so on for sponsors?

That 10k shitbox is the 2nd highest capacity rectangle oval in a RL city, That is the issue with that

So you're saying Redcliffe/moreton Bay has the sponsors to cater for an NRL team but Brisbane city doesn't have any left? please... I know you Sydney people think Brisbane is a dinky little country town but it's not that small.

 

[Maximus]

Didn't the Dolphins have to provide a bank guarantee to secure the 17th licence?

According to an article in The West Australian they secured a bank guarantee of $50m.

Armed with a $50 million bank guarantee and the likelihood NRL coaching icon Wayne Bennett would lead the team, the Dolphins won every category assessed by the Australian Rugby League Commission's bid team and they had next to no time to do set up.​

​

A WA team would need concessions, says Dolphins’ boss

The CEO of NRL expansion team the Dolphins says a WA franchise makes ‘perfect sense’ but would need the salary cap and recruiting concessions they never received.

thewest.com.au

You've already been informed that it's not $50m. $10m over 5 years doesn't mean an extra $10m each year. It means $10m held for 5 years.

Also, this is how much a $10m bank guarantee means

March 24, 2014

Nathan Tinkler is moving to end uncertainty over his future at the Knights with a $10m bank guarantee

Tinkler moves to secure Knights’ future

www.foxsports.com.au

May 23, 2014

Nathan Tinkler gives up ownership of Newcastle Knights

Mining magnate has officially given up ownership of the Hunter Valley club after months of protracted talks

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bukowski]

The fact that a vast majority of people are already calling for further expansion in Brisbane ostensibly to cater fans who don't support the Dolphins, is proof enough that this was a far from perfect bid.

Playing 4 games in a 10k suburban shitbox yearly is what really grinds my gears though.

It shows they are run by people who have a leagues club to look after which is a worry.

 

[Canard]

As opposed to fighting against Broncos, Reds and so on for sponsors?

That 10k shitbox is the 2nd highest capacity rectangle oval in a RL city, That is the issue with that

When there is only 2 NRL sides in Brisbane, it doesn't make any sense to not play all games at Lang Park, to appeal to as many corporates and fans as possible.

If they can't compete with the Reds 7 or so games at Lang Park, then they aren't really trying.

 

[Wb1234]

As opposed to fighting against Broncos, Reds and so on for sponsors?

That 10k shitbox is the 2nd highest capacity rectangle oval in a RL city, That is the issue with that

One they own

for crowds under 20k kayo park means more profit

god forbid they play games in the area they have represented since 47

 

[Perth Red]

You bragged about the Bombers being backed by wealthy investors who have a foot in the local RL community:

I mean they've got solid money behind them (or at least they did prior to covid), they seem to have successful businessmen behind them, and they've already got strong connections in the footy community, and the money to get good footy minds behind them.​

Weren't the businessmen you were talking about powerbrokers who held a position with the Broncos Thoroughbreds in the 1990s?

If so then they were as local as it gets.



So it's okay for Adelaide and Perth to have financially weak clubs that lack fans, but Brisbane 2 needed to be a carbon copy of the Broncos?

Do you know how obnoxious and stupid you sound with these double standards?

You try to come across as an intellectual, but it's obvious you've got a massive chip on your shoulder against the status quo and argue for the sake of it.



You're entitled to be a hypocrite and have a stupid opinion, but don't pretend it's a "fact". What you think should happen isn't a fact. It's just your opinion. The ARLC's refusal to embrace your opinion doesn't mean they're incompetent.



The club did make a huge mistake not playing all of its games at Lang Park.

It was dumb holding games at a venue that has a capacity of 11.5k. However, ghose games were sold out and the club drew an average of 32k fans to the 7 or 8 they played at Lang Park. The only reason you're including the games at Dolphin Ovalis because you cannot bear to admit that the Dolphins were able to draw an average attendance of 32k at Lang Park.

The Dolphins' attendances at Lang Park were just 4-5k below the Broncos'.

Reasonable people would acknowledge that the Dolphins' attendances at Lang Paek aren't far behind the Broncos'.



How many did you predict they would get at Lang Park?



I didn't abandon the club. I have health issues and commitments that make it very difficult to attend NRL games.



Why are you comparing the Dolphins with the Titans?

One club is a started from scratch with a neutral brand in a regional city. The other is a traditional BRL club from the world's second largest rugby league city.



You praised them for having a neutral brand and support from the businessmen associated with the Broncos Thoroughbreds.

I found this gem from Sept 22 2020:

The AFL alienated a huge portion of the potential fan base for the second Adelaide club when they announced it would be Port Adelaide instead of a neutral club.​

​

The NRL can't afford to do that in Brisbane, mainly because it's f**king stupid to knowingly alienate so many potential customers, but also because none of the QRL clubs have demonstrable support large enough to support an NRL club.​

​

At the end of the day it really comes down to whether you want a small suburban club or a club with mass appeal. Why you'd want a suburban club that struggles to make ends meet IDK, but that is the question.​

​

Redcliffe put their hand up

you keep picking out one metric and using it to judge whether a team in valuable or not, this time it's ratings in New Zealand. So Perth is not valuable because people in NZ won't watch them? seriously? Who said Skysports is going to fork out big money for a second NZ team anyway? do they even...

forums.leagueunlimited.com

The Dolphins drew an average of 32k fans to Lang Park over 7 or 8 games. That suggests their fanbase is more than big enough to make ends meet. Just accept you are wrong. Everyone can see it but you.

Youve got far too much time on your hands!

 

[Perth Red]

So that would be the most profitable football club in Australia

that’s the way to build a strong Comp is clubs like these

Hmmm, Thats the LC and includes a $17mill grant for cap ex

The football club did well with a nice big hand out from the NRL. In reality the FC earnt around $19.5mill which would make it no where near the most profitable FC in Australia.

Cant believe you still cant read an annual report after all these years lol

 

[Iamback]

When there is only 2 NRL sides in Brisbane, it doesn't make any sense to not play all games at Lang Park, to appeal to as many corporates and fans as possible.

If they can't compete with the Reds 7 or so games at Lang Park, then they aren't really trying.

Not when they own their Stadium, The Kayo naming rights fee for example they keep all of that. That is not there without NRL games at the ground.

 

[Perth Red]

One they own

for crowds under 20k kayo park means more profit

god forbid they play games in the area they have represented since 47

Why would they get crowds under 20k? Hmmm are we back to Danes argument?

 

[Iamback]

One they own

for crowds under 20k kayo park means more profit

god forbid they play games in the area they have represented since 47

They have corporate functions in the Leagues club - staffed by people they employ