18th club, whose next?

[Colk]

It'll be interesting to see how the Dolphins, Broncos and Titans go this year.

Why would they be any more interesting than finding out about how any other club goes this year?

 

[Colk]

Titans were a brand new club, Dolphins have 70 years of how to run a club

To be fair there has been multiple “plastic” clubs born in the last say 30-40 years that have been very successful, so I think the history argument is a little overstated.

Nevertheless let’s see how the Dolphins go over a longer term before we all crack the champagne

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Why would they be any more interesting than finding out about how any other club goes this year?

How they perform will impact expansion. If they thrive then the broadcasters will be keen on a fourth SEQ team. If they struggle then we might be stuck with 17 teams for awhile.

 

[Colk]

A Perth-based team will need support from multiple businessmen, the WA Gov and the ARLC. The only businessman who has publicly embraced the bid is Peter Cumins.

The Brisbane Tigers have no brand. If they go with the Queensland Firehawks model then they deserve to be rejected.

The Queensland Firehawks is a pretty terrible idea. Just go with South East Queensland - that is where the growth is anyway.

 

[Iamback]

To be fair there has been multiple “plastic” clubs born in the last say 30-40 years that have been very successful, so I think the history argument is a little overstated.

Nevertheless let’s see how the Dolphins go over a longer term before we all crack the champagne

Like who?

I am not just talking RL.

I have Wanderers and Storm only in that category

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

To be fair there has been multiple “plastic” clubs born in the last say 30-40 years that have been very successful, so I think the history argument is a little overstated.

Nevertheless let’s see how the Dolphins go over a longer term before we all crack the champagne

Broncos are the only one that didn't require propping up. Storm and Cowboys are good now, but require a significant investment from News Ltd to stay afloat. It was a tougher era when they were created and things have changed to some extent.

The biggest problem with starting from scratch is it requires a lot of things to line up. When one or two chains in the link breakdown it kills the operation.

 

[Colk]

How they perform will impact expansion. If they thrive then the broadcasters will be keen on a fourth SEQ team. If they struggle then we might be stuck with 17 teams for awhile.

Not necessarily. The Broncos were absolute garbage before they brought the Dolphins in and the Titans have been poor for the majority of their existence.

In any case, that interest is predicated on a viewpoint that only another Queensland team could be put in.

For example, I could say that the Warriors are really interesting because if they go well for a couple more years than another NZ team could get be put on the forefront.

 

[Centy Coast]

Arlc wants the pacific, think bigger

ARLC wants Government money nothing else, think bigger ?, NRL clubs won’t make jack shit from some pauper supported PNG team

 

[Colk]

Like who?

I am not just talking RL.

I have Wanderers and Storm only in that category

The Wanders? You as well as put the whole A -League competition, Super Rugby, NBL heck even the fumbler expansions over that timeframe as well.

League well Raiders, Cowboys, Knights, Broncos, Warriors just off the top of my head. These clubs were ‘invented’ if you will (although everything is invented at some point which is the logical fallacy of the plastic thing) and didn’t come from a secondary competition.

In fact the idea of bringing teams up from a secondary competition is a rarity not the norm.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Not necessarily. The Broncos were absolute garbage before they brought the Dolphins in and the Titans have been poor for the majority of their existence.

In any case, that interest is predicated on a viewpoint that only another Queensland team could be put in.

For example, I could say that the Warriors are really interesting because if they go well for a couple more years than another NZ team could get be put on the forefront.

Broncos were the largest rugby league club in the world before the Dolphins were introduced. A few poor years at the bottom of the table didn't stop them from being the most supported team on and off the field.

The Storm are a house made out of cards. When their success dries up they will lose support. They're operating under a completely different model to the Broncos in a much more hostile and unforgiving environment.

Cowboys have enough rusted on supporters in a small but parochial environment to survive and thrive, regardless of onfield results.

Warriors generate strong support when they're winning, but are in a tough environment.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Wanders? You as well as put the whole A -League competition, Super Rugby, NBL heck even the fumbler expansions over that timeframe as well.

League well Raiders, Cowboys, Knights, Broncos, Warriors just off the top of my head. These clubs were ‘invented’ if you will (although everything is invented at some point which is the logical fallacy of the plastic thing) and didn’t come from a secondary competition.

In fact the idea of bringing teams up from a secondary competition is a rarity not the norm.

Raiders didn't come good until they raided the BRL. Then they struggled until they raided the Soapdodger League. Their strong asset base kept them viable during the lean years.

Cowboys struggled financially until the mid 2000s. They're one of the heavyweights now, but needed financial assistance from News Ltd to get to where they are now. Ditto Storm, albeit without as many rusted on supporters in a much more hostile environment with a team that's been camped inside the top four over the bulk of its existence. We don't know how many Storm fans will stick around when the club has a few years at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Colk]

Broncos are the only one that didn't require propping up. Storm and Cowboys are good now, but require a significant investment from News Ltd to stay afloat. It was a tougher era when they were created and things have changed to some extent.

The biggest problem with starting from scratch is it requires a lot of things to line up. When one or two chains in the link breakdown it kills the operation.

What’s really the point though? Most clubs have been in financial distress over their history

 

[Wb1234]

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What’s really the point though? Most clubs have been in financial distress over their history

ARLC is a risk adverse organisation. Without News Ltd we wouldn't have the Storm and Cowboys. News Ltd no longer props up clubs.

 

[Colk]

Raiders didn't come good until they raided the BRL. Then they struggled until they raided the Soapdodger League. Their strong asset base kept them viable during the lean years.

Cowboys struggled financially until the mid 2000s. They're one of the heavyweights now, but needed financial assistance from News Ltd to get to where they are now. Ditto Storm, albeit without as many rusted on supporters in a much more hostile environment with a team that's been camped inside the top four over the bulk of its existence. We don't know how many Storm fans will stick around when the club has a few years at the bottom of the ladder.

I didn’t know Stuart, Daley, Clyde and Lazarus ever played in the BRL. Add on David Furner, Brett Mullins, Jason Croker, Ken Nagas, Dean Lance, Chris O’Sullivan as well. But no it was just the BRL and the Raiders have never produced anybody. Stop talking rubbish will you.

I get that you love everything Queensland and rip on everything that is not but every club is exactly the same and they will produce/purchase players from wherever they see fit. Even your beloved Cowboys are the same (have a look at your current squad if you want to argue the point)

Also on the Storm and Cowboys thing you are not disproving anything. Will they struggle more when they are not going well - obviously. Are they going to survive in the future - like every club most probably considering the grant is considerably bigger than the salary cap. Have the Storm, Raiders, Cowboys i.e. “plastic clubs” been any different to clubs with history - well obviously not. Clubs that haven’t been run well have been bailed out or unfortunately if it occurred in the SL war killed off and ones that have been run well have prospered.

You would have to be grossly negligent to run a club to the ground now. Not impossible but highly improbable.

 

[Colk]

ARLC is a risk adverse organisation. Without News Ltd we wouldn't have the Storm and Cowboys. News Ltd no longer props up clubs.

I think we are arguing different things again. You’re arguing what you think will happen. I don’t see the point in arguing what I think will or won’t happen because a) I don’t have any control over what will happen externally (nor does anyone in life really) and b) even if you are right (I actually agree that historically Rugby League had been a very conservative game probably the most conservative) that doesn’t mean that you or I should agree with that course of action.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I didn’t know Stuart, Daley, Clyde and Lazarus ever played in the BRL. Add on David Furner, Brett Mullins, Jason Croker, Ken Nagas, Dean Lance, Chris O’Sullivan as well. But no it was just the BRL and the Raiders have never produced anybody. Stop talking rubbish will you.

Stuart was raided from the ARU.

How many premierships did the Raiders win before they raided the Souths Magpies?

How many premierships have Canberra won since Meninga retired in 1994?

I get that you love everything Queensland and rip on everything that is not but every club is exactly the same and they will produce/purchase players from wherever they see fit. Even your beloved Cowboys are the same (have a look at your current squad if you want to argue the point)

Cowboys have a lot of local talent in their squad that have gone on to represent Queensland.

Also on the Storm and Cowboys thing you are not disproving anything. Will they struggle more when they are not going well - obviously. Are they going to survive in the future - like every club most probably considering the grant is considerably bigger than the salary cap. Have the Storm, Raiders, Cowboys i.e. “plastic clubs” been any different to clubs with history - well obviously not. Clubs that haven’t been run well have been bailed out or unfortunately if it occurred in the SL war killed off and ones that have been run well have prospered.

Cowboys have made the finals just once since the 2017 GF -- they finished in the bottom four in 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 -- yet they've been one of the richest and best supported clubs in the NRL during this period.

The Storm don't post their financials, but media reports claim they were running at a loss until 2017. God help them if they end up at the bottom of the ladder. The only other time they finished outside the top eight was the early 2000s. Attendances nosedived blow 10k.

You would have to be grossly negligent to run a club to the ground now. Not impossible but highly improbable.

Bandwagon supporters won't support a losing team. Storm are propped up by bandwagon supporters.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think we are arguing different things again. You’re arguing what you think will happen. I don’t see the point in arguing what I think will or won’t happen because a) I don’t have any control over what will happen externally (nor does anyone in life really) and b) even if you are right (I actually agree that historically Rugby League had been a very conservative game probably the most conservative) that doesn’t mean that you or I should agree with that course of action.

When I argued for rationalisation and expansion into exotic markets I was told to not talk about it because there was no chance of it happening. The same can be said about the dots on map theory.

 

[Colk]

Stuart was raided from the ARU.

How many premierships did the Raiders win before they raided the Souths Magpies?

How many premierships have Canberra won since Meninga retired in 1994?



Cowboys have a lot of local talent in their squad that have gone on to represent Queensland.



Cowboys have made the finals just once since the 2017 GF -- they finished in the bottom four in 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 -- yet they've been one of the richest and best supported clubs in the NRL during this period.

The Storm don't post their financials, but media reports claim they were running at a loss until 2017. God help them if they end up at the bottom of the ladder. The only other time they finished outside the top eight was the early 2000s. Attendances nosedived blow 10k.



Bandwagon supporters won't support a losing team. Storm are propped up by bandwagon supporters.

1. And? Correlation doesn’t equal causation (you know that) The majority of their players didn’t come from the BRL: that’s a fact which I have already proved to you.

By the way they bought two great players from the BRL - Belcher and Meninga which agree were very significant. The other players that came from the BRL - Sam Backo, Gary Coyne, Steve Walters weren’t first grade players at the time. They weren’t great players when they arrived, they became great players at that club. You know under that system. You can crap on about it as much as you want but they were just a great side under a great system.

2. So you want to be a hypocrite then. This is your squad and players that don’t come from North Queensland or even Central Queensland

Drinkwater, Robson, Townsend, Tualagi, Robert Derby, Valemei, Dearden, Vailea, Pua’averse, Neame, Gosiewski, Taunoa- Brown, Nanai, McLean, Finefeuiaki, Leilua, Mcintyre

So by my calculations most of your best players outside of Holmes and Taumololo (and I’m being quite liberal in giving you that considering he was born in Auckland) don’t actually come from North or Central Queensland. In fact a lot of your best players (your whole spine actually) have been bought from other clubs. Good on the Cowboys by the way because they would be negligent to not purchase players from other clubs but it is a tad hypocritical to have a go at say Canberra or any another club for purchasing players when your club is doing exactly the same thing yeah?

3. How do you know that they are bandwagon supporters? It is a very generalised to say that a whole supporter group are just bandwagon supporters. Would there be some - definitely. But it is a ridiculous thing to say that all of them are.

 

[Brian potter]

Not much love for PNG mate.