18th club, whose next?

[Matiunz]

Union is struggling in Sydney and Brisbane to. There problem was to many teams in Australia.

In my experience there wasn't much crossover in fanbase.

I play subbies in Sydney, most of the nsw/qld/kiwi guys I play with will have a super rugby team and NRL team, The ones from VIC and WA tend to have their super rugby team and their AFL team.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I’m really glad you brought this up

Your comment if I recall correctly was that NBL was a chance of overtaking cricket in popularity. I stated that the chances were so remote that it is barely worth mentioning. The evidence that you used to underline your argument was that you went to a game and there were heaps of Asians at the game (Chinese if I recall correctly) therefore that meant that basketball is popular amongst Asians (Chinese) and that meant that it would in turn take over cricket (or a chance to do so)

I wasn’t upset btw - I was laughing at how stupid your remarks were (the ironic thing in all of this is how much you want to hang shit on other posters’ comments which you consider idiotic - not many have beaten this argument here)

Lastly as a coup de grace if you will, if you just looked at that same graph rather than going all half cocked you’ll note one rather important thing. It states pretty clearly that this graph is showing the ‘fastest growing’ sports. Do you notice how cricket is growing faster than the NBL because it has a higher percentage. You know this is evidence which kind of contradicts your whole argument there.

You also said NBL "is niche of niche" and claimed it wasn't broadcast on FTA. It cannot be "niche of niche" if it's one of the fastest growing sports and is broadcast on 10Peach, which is FTA, BTW. You were wrong on both accounts.

My argument was cricket is an outdated game in an era where people have more entertainment options at their fingertips than ever before. Young people don't have the time to watch five days of cricket when they've got streaming options at their disposal. Cricket is definitely going backwards compared to where it was when I was growing up in the 1990s.

I didn't go to an NBL game, BTW. I watch it on TV. There is a large East Asian presence among the NBL fanbase.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No it doesn't. It says that they will provide support to a 3rd party bid. Nowhere does that suggest that the support can't be financial.

"Although the State Government won't be leading the bid or responsible for a potential franchise, we are confident that there will be a strong and compelling case for a WA-based team."

Government to support third party bidder for WA-based NRL team

McGowan Government to support potential third-party bid for a WA-based NRL team. Preliminary work has already begun with VenuesWest appointing consultants Freshwater Strategy to ascertain interest from potential third parties and determine bid structure.

www.venueswest.wa.gov.au

No where did he imply or state that the club will be supported financially by the WA Gov.


The support will consist of developing a third-party bid and "assist" them through the bidding process.

A cross-agency Government working group chaired by the Hon. Peter Tinley MLA has been established to help facilitate the development of a third-party bid and, where necessary, assist the bid through the potential bidding process.​

 

[Vlad59]

"Although the State Government won't be leading the bid or responsible for a potential franchise, we are confident that there will be a strong and compelling case for a WA-based team."​

​

Government to support third party bidder for WA-based NRL team

McGowan Government to support potential third-party bid for a WA-based NRL team. Preliminary work has already begun with VenuesWest appointing consultants Freshwater Strategy to ascertain interest from potential third parties and determine bid structure.

www.venueswest.wa.gov.au

No where did he imply or state that the club will be supported financially by the WA Gov.


The support will consist of developing a third-party bid and "assist" them through the bidding process.

A cross-agency Government working group chaired by the Hon. Peter Tinley MLA has been established to help facilitate the development of a third-party bid and, where necessary, assist the bid through the potential bidding process.​

Max is a miserable bugger. He, PR and Canard are a triumvirate of negativity.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Max is a miserable bugger. He, PR and Canard are a triumvirate of negativity.

Maxipad and Canard happy unless they're being an obnoxious pricks. PR wants to stifle the game in its heartland because the ARPC won't give him a team in Perth.

 

[Maximus]

"Although the State Government won't be leading the bid or responsible for a potential franchise, we are confident that there will be a strong and compelling case for a WA-based team."​

​

Government to support third party bidder for WA-based NRL team

McGowan Government to support potential third-party bid for a WA-based NRL team. Preliminary work has already begun with VenuesWest appointing consultants Freshwater Strategy to ascertain interest from potential third parties and determine bid structure.

www.venueswest.wa.gov.au

No where did he imply or state that the club will be supported financially by the WA Gov.


The support will consist of developing a third-party bid and "assist" them through the bidding process.

A cross-agency Government working group chaired by the Hon. Peter Tinley MLA has been established to help facilitate the development of a third-party bid and, where necessary, assist the bid through the potential bidding process.​

Which part of that says they'll get no funding?

 

[blue bags]

Max is a miserable bugger. He, PR and Canard are a triumvirate of negativity.

Cause of multi alias accounts
Where is red now . Or lately ???

 

[Colk]

You also said NBL "is niche of niche" and claimed it wasn't broadcast on FTA. It cannot be "niche of niche" if it's one of the fastest growing sports and is broadcast on 10Peach, which is FTA, BTW. You were wrong on both accounts.

My argument was cricket is an outdated game in an era where people have more entertainment options at their fingertips than ever before. Young people don't have the time to watch five days of cricket when they've got streaming options at their disposal. Cricket is definitely going backwards compared to where it was when I was growing up in the 1990s.

I didn't go to an NBL game, BTW. I watch it on TV. There is a large East Asian presence among the NBL fanbase.

Wow Dennis Denuto you’re really doubling down on this. I’m surprised you brought this up, particularly on the basis of yoir vibe of an argument because you doubling down on it makes you look like a idiot (and I personally don’t think that you are an idiot)

The graph that was introduced into this forum and of which you used in order to reintroduce this inane discussion completely contradicts your position in every possible way. You know this because you are introducing red herrings but let’s actually debate this argument

1. For example you state that the NBL is one of the fastest growing sports (it is actually last on that list but anyway) yet you completely ignore the fact that all forms of cricket are still growing much faster than the NBL. That is a pretty key point. Do you want to actually address this point or continue to ignore it by making pendant unrelated arguments because it doesn’t suit your main thrust of NBL challenging cricket - you know a sport with a much smaller baseline support and a much lower growth rate catching up with a higher rating and faster growing competitor. The probability is very very low.

2. This whole second paragraph in bold here do you have any evidence to back up this claim or is it again just vibes. You know the graph again doesn’t help your argument. You can’t technically be in decline if you’re growing, unless you want to address that definition?

3. Sure I was wrong that it was on FTA but to counter your “it’s huge” argument A-League and Super Rugby are on FTA as well. Are you claiming ergo that any sport shown on FTA can’t be niche? Essentially, it is growing but it is growing from such a low base that it is still very niche. You know for example if I live in a town of couple hundred people and it grows by a couple hundred more, do I live in a big town or just a slightly bigger one?

4. My god what a pedantic correction. It also doesn’t make your point any less risible. Did you put it on pause to count all those East Asian people in the crowd? Maybe you could count the whole audience as well as what you think is East Asian and you can draw out the percentages. I would be interested in your findings.

 

[Colk]

You also said NBL "is niche of niche" and claimed it wasn't broadcast on FTA. It cannot be "niche of niche" if it's one of the fastest growing sports and is broadcast on 10Peach, which is FTA, BTW. You were wrong on both accounts.

My argument was cricket is an outdated game in an era where people have more entertainment options at their fingertips than ever before. Young people don't have the time to watch five days of cricket when they've got streaming options at their disposal. Cricket is definitely going backwards compared to where it was when I was growing up in the 1990s.

I didn't go to an NBL game, BTW. I watch it on TV. There is a large East Asian presence among the NBL fanbase.

Wow Dennis Denuto you’re really doubling down on this. I’m surprised you brought this up, particularly on the basis of yoir vibe of an argument because you doubling down on it makes you look like a idiot (and I personally don’t think that you are an idiot)

The graph that was introduced into this forum and of which you used in order to reintroduce this inane discussion completely contradicts your position in every possible way. You know this because you are introducing red herring

1. For example you state that the NBL is one of the fastest growing sports (it is actually last on that list but anyway) yet you completely ignore the fact that all forms of cricket are still growing much faster than the NBL. That is a pretty key point. Do you want to actually address this point or continue to ignore it by making pendant unrelated arguments because it doesn’t suit your main thrust of NBL challenging cricket - you know a sport with a much smaller baseline support and a much lower growth rate catching up with a higher rating faster growing competitor. The probability is very very low.

2. This whole second paragraph in bold here do you have any evidence to back up this claim or is it again just vibes. You know the graph again doesn’t help your argument. You can’t technically be in decline if you’re growing unless you want to redraw the definition of being in decline.

3. Sure I was wrong that it was on FTA but to counter your “it’s huge” argument A-League and Super Rugby are on FTA as well. Are you claiming ergo that any sport shown on FTA can’t be niche? Essentially, it is growing but it is growing from such a low base that it is still very niche.

4. My god what a pedantic correction. It also doesn’t make your point any less risible. Did you put it on pause to count all those East Asian people in the crowd? Maybe you could count the whole audience as well as what you think is East Asian and you can draw out the percentages.

 

[Bukowski]

Wow Dennis Denuto you’re really doubling down on this. I’m surprised you brought this up, particularly on the basis of yoir vibe of an argument because you doubling down on it makes you look like a idiot (and I personally don’t think that you are an idiot)

The graph that was introduced into this forum and of which you used in order to reintroduce this inane discussion completely contradicts your position in every possible way. You know this because you are introducing red herrings but let’s actually debate this argument

1. For example you state that the NBL is one of the fastest growing sports (it is actually last on that list but anyway) yet you completely ignore the fact that all forms of cricket are still growing much faster than the NBL. That is a pretty key point. Do you want to actually address this point or continue to ignore it by making pendant unrelated arguments because it doesn’t suit your main thrust of NBL challenging cricket - you know a sport with a much smaller baseline support and a much lower growth rate catching up with a higher rating and faster growing competitor. The probability is very very low.

2. This whole second paragraph in bold here do you have any evidence to back up this claim or is it again just vibes. You know the graph again doesn’t help your argument. You can’t technically be in decline if you’re growing, unless you want to address that definition?

3. Sure I was wrong that it was on FTA but to counter your “it’s huge” argument A-League and Super Rugby are on FTA as well. Are you claiming ergo that any sport shown on FTA can’t be niche? Essentially, it is growing but it is growing from such a low base that it is still very niche. You know for example if I live in a town of couple hundred people and it grows by a couple hundred more, do I live in a big town or just a slightly bigger one?

4. My god what a pedantic correction. It also doesn’t make your point any less risible. Did you put it on pause to count all those East Asian people in the crowd? Maybe you could count the whole audience as well as what you think is East Asian and you can draw out the percentages. I would be interested in your findings.

Wtf? You don't think he's an idiot? I thought this was a point we all agreed on.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Wow Dennis Denuto you’re really doubling down on this. I’m surprised you brought this up, particularly on the basis of yoir vibe of an argument because you doubling down on it makes you look like a idiot (and I personally don’t think that you are an idiot)

The graph that was introduced into this forum and of which you used in order to reintroduce this inane discussion completely contradicts your position in every possible way. You know this because you are introducing red herrings but let’s actually debate this argument

1. For example you state that the NBL is one of the fastest growing sports (it is actually last on that list but anyway) yet you completely ignore the fact that all forms of cricket are still growing much faster than the NBL. That is a pretty key point. Do you want to actually address this point or continue to ignore it by making pendant unrelated arguments because it doesn’t suit your main thrust of NBL challenging cricket - you know a sport with a much smaller baseline support and a much lower growth rate catching up with a higher rating and faster growing competitor. The probability is very very low.

2. This whole second paragraph in bold here do you have any evidence to back up this claim or is it again just vibes. You know the graph again doesn’t help your argument. You can’t technically be in decline if you’re growing, unless you want to address that definition?

3. Sure I was wrong that it was on FTA but to counter your “it’s huge” argument A-League and Super Rugby are on FTA as well. Are you claiming ergo that any sport shown on FTA can’t be niche? Essentially, it is growing but it is growing from such a low base that it is still very niche. You know for example if I live in a town of couple hundred people and it grows by a couple hundred more, do I live in a big town or just a slightly bigger one?

4. My god what a pedantic correction. It also doesn’t make your point any less risible. Did you put it on pause to count all those East Asian people in the crowd? Maybe you could count the whole audience as well as what you think is East Asian and you can draw out the percentages. I would be interested in your findings.

Cricket is much more popular than basketball in Australia, but the gap has narrowed significantly over the last 30 years.

Back in the 1990s every kid wanted to bowl leg spin like Shane Warne. ODIs were sold out months in advance and were must see TV. These days no one gives a f**k about ODIs and they're no longer broadcast on FTA. ODIs are played in front of tiny crowds.

My point?

Cricket's popularity was far greater in 1994 than it is today. The NBL is in the strongest position it's been in since the early 1990s.

Australia is a changing country. Much of its immigrants are from East Asia and they're buying up prime real estate all over our major cities. In 50 years time there will be a much higher percentage of East Asians living in Australia and they'll occupy thr best real estate in the inner suburbs of Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney.

Cricket is a very "Anglo" game in Australia. It has done a terrible job of reaching out to Australia's South Asian community over the last 40 years. The writing is on the wall.

When was the last time the Australian public gave a shit about a Test summer that didn't involve England or India?

 

[The Great Dane]

IDK about bigger than cricket, but basketball is one of the, if not the, fastest growing team sport in the country, and will relatively quickly become one of the biggest sports in the country if that trend continues.

Basketball's growth in Australia is mirroring the demographic and cultural shifts that saw it explode in America (urbanising population, cheap to participate in, doesn't take up much real estate, comparatively low physical contact, etc), and the NBL will grow into a big player in the market if it can continue to capitalise on that growing interest.

Frankly the ABA, and NBL and NBA to varying extents, would have to f**k up monumentally to reverse those trends at this point, and basketball's growth is already having major impacts on the grassroots and will increasingly impact the professional tiers given time.

 

[The Great Dane]

Cricket is a very "Anglo" game in Australia. It has done a terrible job of reaching out to Australia's South Asian community over the last 40 years. The writing is on the wall.

You obviously haven't been down to the local cricket club anytime recently lol.

BTW, the average punter seemed pretty stoked with Shamar Joseph's story and performances for the Windies to me. Can't beat human interest stories like that.

 

[The Great Dane]

Pretty sure warriors had a sydney game membership, pretty sure a number of clubs still have a membership for fans in other states when they play there. Sorry mate but you’re plain wrong on this one!

eg https://experience.melbournestorm.com.au/membership/away3

The Storm aren't really selling tickets to other teams games in that membership.

They're effectively selling a voucher that's good to redeem a ticket to games if there's excess availably. In other words it isn't a guarantee to a ticket to the games you want to attend, and the Storm can almost certainly honour the membership without making any arrangements with the other clubs.

What you were proposing, a specific seat at two specific away matches, is a different thing and not as easily organised.

As an aside, BS memberships like the above need to be done away with. We need to get back to a place where it isn't legit unless it's a season ticket or similar, and where we're incentivising people to support their local clubs as much as possible.

not at all, I’ve clearly stated I won’t accept a bears club in Perth that doesn’t meet what I’d consider to be an acceptable outcome for perth. But I’m also not opposed to a partnership that could benefit perth. its worked very successfully for swans, no reason it couldn’t work for perth under right circumstances. If those circumstances aren’t met I’d rather we waited another 20 years than have an east coast club fifo into perth.

You've clearly stated and repeated a deluded fantasy that the Bears would never accept, and it's an insult to everybody's intelligence to pretend that that fantasy is even close to comparable to a full blown relocation like the Swans. You're also already accepting of a glorified FIFO East Coast club under your criteria.

If the Bear's gain a Perth license it'll happen in one of two ways; either the NRL will give them full ownership over a license to run an NRL side out of Perth. Or it'll effectively be another merger club where the Bears own the majority stake in partnership with a consortium from Perth, which will suffer from all the same power struggles and issues associated with mergers except the tug of war over control of the club will be between entities on opposite sides of the country. The prior would probably be better than the latter.

 

[Colk]

Cricket is much more popular than basketball in Australia, but the gap has narrowed significantly over the last 30 years.

Back in the 1990s every kid wanted to bowl leg spin like Shane Warne. ODIs were sold out months in advance and were must see TV. These days no one gives a f**k about ODIs and they're no longer broadcast on FTA. ODIs are played in front of tiny crowds.

My point?

Cricket's popularity was far greater in 1994 than it is today. The NBL is in the strongest position it's been in since the early 1990s.

Australia is a changing country. Much of its immigrants are from East Asia and they're buying up prime real estate all over our major cities. In 50 years time there will be a much higher percentage of East Asians living in Australia and they'll occupy thr best real estate in the inner suburbs of Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney.

Cricket is a very "Anglo" game in Australia. It has done a terrible job of reaching out to Australia's South Asian community over the last 40 years. The writing is on the wall.

When was the last time the Australian public gave a shit about a Test summer that didn't involve England or India?

Umm this year on your last point.

Cricket might be in decline but you’re seriously overestimating the support that the NBL has.

That’s my point (I’ll put it in italics for you)

If you want to talk about the NBL: the problem that the NBL has, the same as with the A-League, is that it is simply an inferior competition. Now before you or anybody else drone on about the standard, I am just stating that you have a much higher profile and better overseas competition which people are going to be drawn to instead(again have a look at the graph). That’s why the NBL will probably never be huge.

If you want to talk about cricket: well cricket is going through a massive evolution. I think ODIs will probably go and test cricket will probably have to evolve. This is not only about support but it is more about scheduling and control of the game. People are being drawn to Twenty20 cricket (if you disagree have a look at the crowds and again the graph). Ergo, I don’t think the game is in trouble at all in terms of support and there is way more money in the game than it was in the 1990’s. However the sport might look completely different in the future and it has to manage and contend with that.

On your point on immigration
i) There are more people of Indian heritage moving to Australia than any other Asian group and that is growing (look up the ABS)
ii) You’re implying that a majority of this East Asian population are going to be drawn to basketball (and you can if you want) but you’re not extending that assumption to people coming from countries that play cricket. It seems a strange point to make.

It seems very strange to essentially use a graph which contradicts your point and then continue to argue it. You are essentially stating that one sport is in massive trouble (writing is on the wall) but boasting about a competition which is growing at a much slower rate and from a much lower base than the one in trouble. It’s pretty f****** stupid and probably up there on the stupid ranking.

 

[Vee]

Max is a miserable bugger. He, PR and Canard are a triumvirate of negativity.

Vlad, you started well imo. Please don't side with My Little Pony.

 

[Vlad59]

Vlad, you started well imo. Please don't side with My Little Pony.

It’s in my nature to respond to digs. But we’ll see hahaha

 

[Perth Red]

I know for a fact that the WA Gov won't be involved with running the club.

"Although the State Government won't be leading the bid or responsible for a potential franchise, we are confident that there will be a strong and compelling case for a WA-based team." -- Sport and Recreation Minister David Templeman​

​

Government to support third party bidder for WA-based NRL team

McGowan Government to support potential third-party bid for a WA-based NRL team. Preliminary work has already begun with VenuesWest appointing consultants Freshwater Strategy to ascertain interest from potential third parties and determine bid structure.

www.venueswest.wa.gov.au

No financial support from the WA Gov. It all falls down to the pawnbroker.

lol only you can think that the Govt saying they wont run a team equals govt not providing any financial support. They've already stumped up $1/2mill to put the bid together. After Cook rang vlandys he did a 180 on perths prospects, you dont think they offered something in that conversation?

 

[Canard]

IDK about bigger than cricket, but basketball is one of the, if not the, fastest growing team sport in the country, and will relatively quickly become one of the biggest sports in the country if that trend continues.

Its bigger than big down here. Like the biggest its ever been at junior level. To the point where its starting to seriously affect Aussie Rules (some clubs are folding, some are merging etc. just to get numbers)

But soccer is huge also and always has been to an extent, and they don't seem to be able to parlay that into anything.

 

[Santino Patane]

The Storm aren't really selling tickets to other teams games in that membership.

They're effectively selling a voucher that's good to redeem a ticket to games if there's excess availably. In other words it isn't a guarantee to a ticket to the games you want to attend, and the Storm can almost certainly honour the membership without making any arrangements with the other clubs.

What you were proposing, a specific seat at two specific away matches, is a different thing and not as easily organised.

As an aside, BS memberships like the above need to be done away with. We need to get back to a place where it isn't legit unless it's a season ticket or similar, and where we're incentivising people to support their local clubs as much as possible.

You've clearly stated and repeated a deluded fantasy that the Bears would never accept, and it's an insult to everybody's intelligence to pretend that that fantasy is even close to comparable to a full blown relocation like the Swans. You're also already accepting of a glorified FIFO East Coast club under your criteria.

If the Bear's gain a Perth license it'll happen in one of two ways; either the NRL will give them full ownership over a license to run an NRL side out of Perth. Or it'll effectively be another merger club where the Bears own the majority stake in partnership with a consortium from Perth, which will suffer from all the same power struggles and issues associated with mergers except the tug of war over control of the club will be between entities on opposite sides of the country. The prior would probably be better than the latter.

So to clarify your point regarding memberships, one is not a real supporter or “member” unless they commit to a full membership? This seems an overly prescriptive worldview that misses the nuances of personal circumstances that doesn’t allow a supporter to make 10-12 games (think work commitments, family commitments, financial capacity, location etc)).