1st Test: New Zealand v Australia at Wellington on Feb 12-16, 2016

[Twatface Magee]

You do realise that he has played in the BBL and ODI matches since then?

Further, you do realise that in addition to Shield matches, he played in the warmup Ashes FC games?

I have been underwhelmed. I do not think that I am the only one. But maybe after one or two more action remodellings he will be sublime.

Or maybe not.

If he goes through enough action remodelling, they could try and make him into a leg spinner.

You're going to judge his Test prospects on BBL?
That'll do me. You needn't say any more.

 

[umina panther]

Great to see people giving Lyon some credit for a change.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't want to pick on McCullum as Australia has done the same thing in the past decade whereby no one who is a 'star' gets the tap on the shoulder. No, they often get to dictate when their final test (more often final test series) will be and usually play accordingly - like a guy who has already checked out.

I admired Johnson last summer. He realised he was past it, probably wasn't enjoying it and despite being told he probably could go through the motions and still play, he quit. And boy didn't he look happy about it. The relief after his final test at the WACA was clearly visible and there were no tears (far me, when did grown men cricketers cry on retiring!?!?). And he looked super relaxed when spoken to during the ODIs. On the other hand, you had Clarke and Ponting who languished. At least Clarke fell on his own sword after the Ashes loss. Ponting took 2 years to realise it was time and I think he admits that now.

It must be terrible to be so talented, so good, so admired to wake up one day and realise its passed you by. The honest ones put their hands up I guess. Others have commercial and monetary considerations and need to hang on.

Mccallum shouldn't probably be playing this series, but who am I to judge. Enjoy him one last time my NZ friends because he's been a good entertainer for you and the rest of us.

 

[ANTiLAG]

I don't want to pick on McCullum as Australia has done the same thing in the past decade whereby no one who is a 'star' gets the tap on the shoulder. No, they often get to dictate when their final test (more often final test series) will be and usually play accordingly - like a guy who has already checked out.

I admired Johnson last summer. He realised he was past it, probably wasn't enjoying it and despite being told he probably could go through the motions and still play, he quit. And boy didn't he look happy about it. The relief after his final test at the WACA was clearly visible and there were no tears (far me, when did grown men cricketers cry on retiring!?!?). And he looked super relaxed when spoken to during the ODIs. On the other hand, you had Clarke and Ponting who languished. At least Clarke fell on his own sword after the Ashes loss. Ponting took 2 years to realise it was time and I think he admits that now.

It must be terrible to be so talented, so good, so admired to wake up one day and realise its passed you by. The honest ones put their hands up I guess. Others have commercial and monetary considerations and need to hang on.

Mccallum shouldn't probably be playing this series, but who am I to judge. Enjoy him one last time my NZ friends because he's been a good entertainer for you and the rest of us.

Good post.

I suspect, people (including Ricky himself) were waiting for Ponting's form to turn around. Selectors would have wanted to eek out every drop of his talent. And it just didn't until he retired. And then he found it again in Aus domestic and County. He averaged 123 in 2013 County Cricket.

Johnson and Clarke are interesting ways to have retired. There maybe more revealed in the future about their exists.

 

[vvvrulz]

Oh now you think to ask for definitions. Should you not have asked this question before going on the attack? Anyways, my definition is the same as the dictionary definition:

"overrate
əʊvəˈreɪt/Submit
verb
past tense: overrated; past participle: overrated
have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved.
"an overrated player"
synonyms: assess too highly, overestimate, overvalue, rate/prize too highly, think too much of, exaggerate the worth of, attach too much importance to;

Much like assuming someone after a stellar debut match will have an equally successful career is overrating someone.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Cummins has shown the potential to be a high quality fast bowler, *but* to suggest anything other than potential alone is absolutely moot. He's not underrated or overrated. We, least of all you, have no idea what he is capable of at the top level at full fitness.

It's just as bad as the Hodge arguments.

 

[umina panther]

Shame Pontings average fell away. One of the all time greats

 

[WaznTheGreat]

This Test and this Series are irrelevant,until we finally beat England on English soil or Beat India in India i don't give a crap,i don't care if we beat Sri Lanka or NZ or whatever.

Every game is irrelevant until they do those 2 things.

 

[vvvrulz]

Back to this match.

What should happen:
Southee given a serious break - he's become a lazy bowler who is quite content to plod all day if he doesn't get surface assistance. Time to earn your way back in.
Boult is finding his old form, we know he's capable of plenty, he stays.
Bracewell at least attempts line and length, but again without help he's far too easy to see off.
Mark Craig has toiled hard for us, but it's obvious he offers nothing.
Anderson has nothing with the ball.

Get Wagner in, Henry in, Sodhi in. Get brave and perhaps give Milne a shot.
We can't afford to see this old lot show up yet again.

What will happen:
Nothing.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Cummins has shown the potential to be a high quality fast bowler, *but* to suggest anything other than potential alone is absolutely moot. He's not underrated or overrated. We, least of all you, have no idea what he is capable of at the top level at full fitness.

It's just as bad as the Hodge arguments.

Heh. Welcome to the debate VVVRulz.

I think many people overrate him on the information that is available to them. His test debut comes into any topic of discussion about him, as it has here, by the very person who asked me for that definition, which further ignores all the remodelling and non stellar returns in FC since then.

But even his BBL and ODI performances with the new ball are hardly awe inspiring. He got wickets in the ODI's in England in the midst of some big scoring matches. But I'm much happier put my money on Hazelwood and Pattinson having better careers than him at this stage on potential alone or otherwise. I have no idea what remodelled action he will come out with next, and admit as much.

You reckon Cummins will outshine them in the next 5 to 10 years, that's fair, we can come back, bump the thread, and have a looksie then.

 

[vvvrulz]

On another note, heard Craig McMillan offer his thoughts on Radio Sport.

Just a sorry interview.

Talked about our great home record,
how we didn't play terrible shots on the first morning but just got good balls,
about how what a shame it was we lost the toss,
lamented the bad no-ball call

Fine line between positive and delusional, we got absolutely schooled Mac.
Unless we go up several big notches it's not going be any different next time.

 

[vvvrulz]

You reckon Cummins will outshine them in the next 5 to 10 years, that's fair, we can come back, bump the thread, and have a looksie then.

I never once said anything even resembling that.

 

[ANTiLAG]

I never once said anything even resembling that.

You may not have. But that is how the debate started that you;re keen to join in on.

I doubt the Australian selectors would be loathe to drop Lyon for anyone on any surface, least of all Pat Cummins, and they won't have a tail starting at 6.

If the planets ever align just right, we might one day see a pace attack of Hazelwood, Starc, Pattinson & Cummins

Cummins is overated. I'd probably still have Lyon over him at the Gabba or Waca.

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon are gun, the former 2 could be the best bowlers with Rabada and Shah for the next decade. Starc is good but not as good as the aforementioned. Cummins is not special in the least.

Overrated?

One test & he was MoM against the number 1 ranked test team, on their patch

Does one performance there now make Ben Stokes better than Sobers?

Hazelwood, Patto and Lyon will get you guys back to the top if the batters can carry on performing. Not Cummins. Mark my words.

WTF

Cummins has played 1 test, got Mom against SA on their decks & you reckon he is overrated:crazy:

He has one performance at test level for you to judge him on, he was the best player over the course of the game, & somehow you've come up with an opinion that he is overrated

You seem to be confusing being injury prone with being overrated

I'll let you off the hook this time, but smarten up

Yes. Overrated.

As for smartening up: "one swallow does not a summer make."

Just for clarification, what is your criteria for not being overrated?

And do you understand the definition of overrated?

 

[Bazal]

I never once said anything even resembling that.

He likes putting words in peoples mouths.

 

[vvvrulz]

But that is how the debate started that you;re keen to join in on

.... nor was I keen to join this 'debate', as far as I am concerned there is none.

 

[ANTiLAG]

.... nor was I keen to join this 'debate', as far as I am concerned there is none.

As do I.

I am certain that 2 weeks is putting far too much stock in Pat Cummins's debut test in assessing his future worth to Australian test cricket.

Time will tell.

If he gets fit, remodels successfully and becomes the next Dale Steyn, I will have some egg on my face. But at least I took a position. And right now, that position says to read sfa into his debut with a different action and not overrate him based upon that one test match when he was not stellar in England FC matches last year and been underwhelming elsewhere.

 

[Bazal]

AntiCricket, the only man on earth who truly believes that saying a player has massive potential is an offensive sin of overrating....:lol:

 

[JJ]

Kiwi's can't handle the mighty Strayan sledging over 4-5 days,they can only handle it for 50 overs

what, you bored us to defeat?

 

[JJ]

Shame Pontings average fell away. One of the all time greats

irrelevant imo, Richards, Dravid and many other giants had their average fall away...

Viv remains the best I've seen, his average in tests should have been higher - as it was... but there are few batsmen that the best bowlers have been scared to bowl at - he's the one, he destroyed everyone.

Ponting at his peak was a wonderful player too - and seems a decent commentator, which is presumably why 9 don't hire him

 

[ANTiLAG]

AntiCricket, the only man on earth who truly believes that saying a player has massive potential is an offensive sin of overrating....:lol:

Oh I agree Cummins has potential. But we have no idea what his next remodelled action will even look like nor how it will release the ball.

But I think that Hazelwood has greater discipline that will take him to greater success. I think Pattinson has greater potential than Cummins. And I think Starc is still a better option on his own potential than Cummins.

I also think Lyon is an incredibly important part of the Australian line up that is so often underestimated.

Even if Cummins is fit, I am not sure how often he plays in the pecking order if the others are fit.

Siddle is still ranked ahead of him in the pecking order at this stage.

 

[ANTiLAG]

irrelevant imo, Richards, Dravid and many other giants had their average fall away...

Viv remains the best I've seen, his average in tests should have been higher - as it was... but there are few batsmen that the best bowlers have been scared to bowl at - he's the one, he destroyed everyone.

Ponting at his peak was a wonderful player too - and seems a decent commentator, which is presumably why 9 don't hire him

:lol:

Oh to have Punter on air with Clarke, that could be priceless for banter.