2008 Crowd Watch - Final Totals in Post #3778

[dallymessenger]

The only way that rugby league crowds are going to get anywhere AFL crowds is if the latter have a massive decrease in the numbers which i can't see happening any time soon.

The fact is on a whole Sydney grounds just don't have the capacity to hold crowds the size of AFL numbers. Of the two grounds that can, the fans have made it more than clear that they hate going to the main one and even the clubs are trying to get out of the joint. While the other (SFS) for whatever reason there's not many games held there each season.

I'm not too sure why you're telling people to be patient because as long as games continue to be played at suburban grounds (which i hope they do) then rugby league crowds will never get up near AFL crowds. Some might not like hearing that, but with the ground situation among other things it's just the way it is.

because crowds for the big games at homebush are growing quite a bit.

souths, dogs and tigers will all break 20,000 very soon in crowds.

i expect the first 2 to average 30,000 crowds within a decade and that is quite good.

the broncos will push up towards 40,000, the cowboys and titans at 25,000 and the rest of the sydney clubs at 18,000 - 20,000.

i dont see why any sydney club couldnt get the same crowds as AFL clubs with the same effort as marketing over as long a time.

 

[dallymessenger]

So do you want to settle for second best?

just because AFL gets bigger crowds than RL doesnt mean much to me.

im not insecure about it like lots of people are.

we dominate on TV, they dominate in crowds. big deal. if i had to pick, id take TV dominance.

as long as our crowds are growing im happy.

i grew up in sydney when a crowd of 10,000 was big, now its considered a dud. ive seen crowds of 3000 or so regularly in sydney.

now 20,000 is a good crowd, and we even get 30,000 for some games as well in sydney which was unheard of when i was a teenager.

look at a club like the tigers through the 80s when they were a strong side and their crowd averages were around 10,000 - 11,000 tops.

we have made massive strides on the crowd front and it will only get better with grounds getting done and marketing efforts being put into place.

 

[Digga Hole]

i expect the first 2 to average 30,000 crowds within a decade and that is quite good.

What gives you the confidence that crowds will double in a decade for these clubs (Souths, Dogs) when the NRL has been around for a 100 years??

 

[dallymessenger]

What gives you the confidence that crowds will double in a decade for these clubs (Souths, Dogs) when the NRL has been around for a 100 years??

the nrl has been around since 1998.

that aside, the clubs ive picked have grown their crowds quite a bit since moving to homebush.

souths went from 9000 to 15,000 and still with an average side on the park.

the dogs and tigers were averaging 18,000 a few years back.

sydney clubs are now marketing memberships harder as the money from poker machines is drying up.

as an example, souths increased their season ticket numbers by almost 100% last year.

it wouldnt surprise me to see souths, dogs and roosters all hit 10,000 ST holders within 1 - 2 years.

 

[Ice777]

because crowds for the big games at homebush are growing quite a bit.

souths, dogs and tigers will all break 20,000 very soon in crowds.

i expect the first 2 to average 30,000 crowds within a decade and that is quite good.

the broncos will push up towards 40,000, the cowboys and titans at 25,000 and the rest of the sydney clubs at 18,000 - 20,000.

As mentioned there's talk that teams want to play even less games at at Homebush than what they do now which won't help boost the attendances and the fans just don't like the place.

Do you think teams will be rushing to play out at Homebush when the $100K a game gravy train dries up? Of course they won't, they'll bet out of there as quick as they can and nobody could blame them. Crowds this year at the venue are about 900 down on what they were the last year so they certainly aren't growing at all like you said.

 

[NK Arsenal]

just because AFL gets bigger crowds than RL doesnt mean much to me.

im not insecure about it like lots of people are.

we dominate on TV, they dominate in crowds. big deal. if i had to pick, id take TV dominance.

as long as our crowds are growing im happy.

i grew up in sydney when a crowd of 10,000 was big, now its considered a dud. ive seen crowds of 3000 or so regularly in sydney.

now 20,000 is a good crowd, and we even get 30,000 for some games as well in sydney which was unheard of when i was a teenager.

look at a club like the tigers through the 80s when they were a strong side and their crowd averages were around 10,000 - 11,000 tops.

we have made massive strides on the crowd front and it will only get better with grounds getting done and marketing efforts being put into place.

it means a lot to me and most people on this forum and other RL fans

id prefer bigger crowds honestly (not just because i am an a-league fan)

the crowds are NOT growing. they are down on last years

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

we've only got 30k twice this year from memory (excluding soo and tests) compare that to the afl..

and sorry but we havent made massive strides...

the nrl has been around since 1998.

that aside, the clubs ive picked have grown their crowds quite a bit since moving to homebush.

souths went from 9000 to 15,000 and still with an average side on the park.

the dogs and tigers were averaging 18,000 a few years back.

sydney clubs are now marketing memberships harder as the money from poker machines is drying up.

as an example, souths increased their season ticket numbers by almost 100% last year.

it wouldnt surprise me to see souths, dogs and roosters all hit 10,000 ST holders within 1 - 2 years.

the dogs were hitting 18k when they were doing well..now look how sh*t they are going on and off the field and look and the crowds..then look at melbourne fc in the afl who are 2nd last from memory and are getting 30k crowds......

and i think the dogs and souths can hit 10k season ticket holders but i cant see the roosters doing it cause their fans are absolute sh*thouse

 

[flamin]

the crowds are NOT growing. they are down on last years

The crowds are the highest they have ever been at this stage in the year. They are only down compared to the FINAL average, which obviously does not include the last few rounds of this year which have always been higher than the rep season.



In regards to the notion that we can't expect any more growth in crowds; AFL clubs like Collingwood and Essendon have gone from 21k and 19k in 1987 to 54k and 52k in 2007. Most fans would be happy if RL could grow half as much, and that can happen with stability, marketing and smart management, something which the game has obviously lacked.

 

[DINGb@T]

Sorry to the optimistic blokes (there are so few of us here ) but things aren't looking too good...



The last few rounds have been horendous. The weird thing about this year has been the unwavering consistency with a very calm round by round average that was suggesting a more, dare I say, 'mature' attendance habit by club supporters (a pattern you can see developing the further we get from the Superleague war- compare 2002 and 2003 to the later years to see what I mean= less crazy swings week by week).

But we're now knee deep in the build up to the finals and we aren't seeing the crowd increase the way we usually do. By now there should have been an 18k round or two but instead we got a very calm slide from 16.5k down to 15.5k. And lets think about round 22 as little as possible except to say that the Bulldogs and Cowboys could possibly be the entire reason this season is heading south. (I mean we had a huge crowd at MANLY! For a STORM game!!!!! That should've driven the average UP not...... okay, I better calm down <deep breath>)

And this is the damage...



Everything, and I mean everything, was heading in the right direction for a big finish- the second best average finish in the games history by a very comfortable way, the hint of a possible crack at the 2005 record, etc.

The Cowboys and Bulldogs suck.

Finally we have the total...



Although this is still on its way to a new record it's starting to look a whole lot less impressive and if the average doesn't pick back up to at least match 2007 we might not get the record OR even beat 2005.

We blame $onny Bill William$ for NSW and the geniuss who decided to sack the coach at the Cowboys AT THE START OF THE SEASON for Queensland. Wasn't that a great idea...

By the way, everyone else is pulling their weight. I might do up the graphs a bit later if I feel like procrastinating my uni work some more.

 

[dallymessenger]

As mentioned there's talk that teams want to play even less games at at Homebush than what they do now which won't help boost the attendances and the fans just don't like the place.

Do you think teams will be rushing to play out at Homebush when the $100K a game gravy train dries up? Of course they won't, they'll bet out of there as quick as they can and nobody could blame them. Crowds this year at the venue are about 900 down on what they were the last year so they certainly aren't growing at all like you said.

taking the dud games from there will boost crowds in a small way.

making the big games even bigger will do the rest.

we got 35,000 to a game there this year, we need to make that more regular.

its not hard when youve got a product as good as RL. its that the marketing has been terrible in the past.

also we need to copy AFL and introduce ST as cheap as theirs.

 

[dallymessenger]

it means a lot to me and most people on this forum and other RL fans

id prefer bigger crowds honestly (not just because i am an a-league fan)

the crowds are NOT growing. they are down on last years

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

we've only got 30k twice this year from memory (excluding soo and tests) compare that to the afl..

and sorry but we havent made massive strides...



the dogs were hitting 18k when they were doing well..now look how sh*t they are going on and off the field and look and the crowds..then look at melbourne fc in the afl who are 2nd last from memory and are getting 30k crowds......

and i think the dogs and souths can hit 10k season ticket holders but i cant see the roosters doing it cause their fans are absolute sh*thouse

15,000 for the dogs is fantastic given the year theyve had.

or are you saying it should be more?

and it will bounce back next year with a better team.

the roosters got 6000? this year, i think they can hit it.

and again, im not insecure about AFL crowds. its a terrible game with little to be jealous of. we need to learn whatever we can from the sport, but not be in awe of it.

its a terrible spectacle.

all we need to do is make our ST as cheap as theirs and market the hell out of them like they do.

thats pretty much all we can learn from that "sport"

 

[bobmar28]

because crowds for the big games at homebush are growing quite a bit.

souths, dogs and tigers will all break 20,000 very soon in crowds.

i expect the first 2 to average 30,000 crowds within a decade and that is quite good.

the broncos will push up towards 40,000, the cowboys and titans at 25,000 and the rest of the sydney clubs at 18,000 - 20,000.

i dont see why any sydney club couldnt get the same crowds as AFL clubs with the same effort as marketing over as long a time.

The Cowboys and Titans are already getting 25,000 for most games.

 

[bobmar28]

just because AFL gets bigger crowds than RL doesnt mean much to me.

im not insecure about it like lots of people are.

we dominate on TV, they dominate in crowds. big deal. if i had to pick, id take TV dominance.

as long as our crowds are growing im happy.

i grew up in sydney when a crowd of 10,000 was big, now its considered a dud. ive seen crowds of 3000 or so regularly in sydney.

now 20,000 is a good crowd, and we even get 30,000 for some games as well in sydney which was unheard of when i was a teenager.

look at a club like the tigers through the 80s when they were a strong side and their crowd averages were around 10,000 - 11,000 tops.

we have made massive strides on the crowd front and it will only get better with grounds getting done and marketing efforts being put into place.

But does one city need or even deserve nine teams in a national competition? Less teams in Sydney would mean bigger crowds.

 

[Digga Hole]

also we need to copy AFL and introduce ST as cheap as theirs.

Don't believe everything someone with an agenda tells you...

 

[Teddyboy]

just because AFL gets bigger crowds than RL doesnt mean much to me.

im not insecure about it like lots of people are.

we dominate on TV, they dominate in crowds. big deal. if i had to pick, id take TV dominance.

as long as our crowds are growing im happy.

i grew up in sydney when a crowd of 10,000 was big, now its considered a dud. ive seen crowds of 3000 or so regularly in sydney.

now 20,000 is a good crowd, and we even get 30,000 for some games as well in sydney which was unheard of when i was a teenager.

look at a club like the tigers through the 80s when they were a strong side and their crowd averages were around 10,000 - 11,000 tops.

we have made massive strides on the crowd front and it will only get better with grounds getting done and marketing efforts being put into place.

Dally you are insane.

 

[Perth Red]

Ultimately clubs will have to build there crowds or die a financial death! Due to our well discussed conflict of ownership TV viewers mean very little for RL and are unfortunately not being translated into media deals or sponsorship deals. If RL is so strong on TV, why is sponsorship for the competition and per club lower than AFL?

 

[dallymessenger]

The Cowboys and Titans are already getting 25,000 for most games.

not their average, more like 20,000 - 22,000.

another 5000 or so for each.

it would be more but their stadia dont hold it

 

[dallymessenger]

But does one city need or even deserve nine teams in a national competition? Less teams in Sydney would mean bigger crowds.

show me where less teams has meant higher crowds.

the only evidence is the opposite.

less teams has not grown crowds.

if you want higher crowds clubs need to look at marketing, season ticket pricing.

 

[Perth Red]

Totally agree Dally. Sydney has enough people for each club to be getting 20,000+ if the clubs really wanted it.

What they need:

Grounds that are; easy to get to, comfortable for families, covered stands, help generate atmosphere, close to the action
Push season memberships like it is the most important thing in the world!
Reduce tickets so families can afford to go every week, home and away (in Sydney)
Market, market, market
Reduce the cost of merchandise, especially for kids (stop ripping the fans off!)
Get a NRL leadership that will promote the game and raise its profile nationally

 

[dallymessenger]

Totally agree Dally. Sydney has enough people for each club to be getting 20,000+ if the clubs really wanted it.

What they need:

Grounds that are; easy to get to, comfortable for families, covered stands, help generate atmosphere, close to the action
Push season memberships like it is the most important thing in the world!
Reduce tickets so families can afford to go every week, home and away (in Sydney)
Market, market, market
Reduce the cost of merchandise, especially for kids (stop ripping the fans off!)
Get a NRL leadership that will promote the game and raise its profile nationally

and all of those are achieveable.

reducing clubs weakens RL.

making clubs more succesful makes the whole game stronger.


people who argue killing clubs or moving them is the solution are arguing for something to weaken the game.

we need 16 succesful RL clubs now. and later we need 4 more in areas we want to expand to.

 

[Perth Red]

Reducing strong clubs does, reducing weak clubs that will probably never attain the things above?

I really like the new ESL system that clearly lays out a framework of what is considered acceptable for a club to be in the top flight and if you don't meet it, and a better prospect comes along, then your out. Give clubs 5 year franchises and set targets they have to reach. That way fans will have no one to blame other than their own club management if a club gest booted for under performing.