2019 Discussion

[betcats]

I meant no offence, I meant I’m not willing about this subject with a random dude on the Internet who I can’t talk to. I’m sick of talking to people who just continually throw stats and nonsense at a subject.

The stats that you quote, aren’t reflective of the style of football we needed to be playing in order to dominate other teams.

There is more to a game than running metres.

As I said, I prefer these sorts of talks to occur over a beer and few laughs.

It gets boring fast over the net.

You’re the one throwing none sense. I never spoke about style of footy or said metres was was the whole game, you said the forward didn’t go forward which is just rubbish.

 

[Luke Bowden]

You’re the one throwing none sense. I never spoke about style of footy or said metres was was the whole game, you said the forward didn’t go forward which is just rubbish.

I also said that “I disagree” and left it at that.

Aren’t you at all bored with this sort of arguement. I am, I got into too many this year.

 

[Exsilium]

Of course its a guide. So is the fact we were top five for total metres gained, top five for post contact metres and number one for tackled in the opposition twenty.

Lucky we have secured a halfback who knows how to score points in the opposition 20 otherwise we’d be truely stuffed

 

[herbert henry1908]

Lucky we have secured a halfback who knows how to score points in the opposition 20 otherwise we’d be truly stuffed

Hahaha.

 

[OldPanther]

Lucky we have secured a halfback who knows how to score points in the opposition 20 otherwise we’d be truely stuffed

He's 20 and barely played 50 games. People need to give him some time.

 

[herbert henry1908]

He's 20 and barely played 50 games. People need to give him some time.

You don’t all of a sudden learn how to create tries on your own. You either have it or you don’t.

Cleary suceeding as a playmaker will need the right coach to come up with good set plays. (not his Dad)

 

[mxlegend99]

You don’t all of a sudden learn how to create tries on your own. You either have it or you don’t.

Cleary suceeding as a playmaker will need the right coach to come up with good set plays. (not his Dad)

If that were true then every great halfback would be debuting at 18 and carving up from day one.

Nathan after 3 seasons of first grade and an Origin series is still younger then most halves are before they're able to secure the #7 jersey.

Every player develops at a different rate and experience is more crucial in different positions. Nathan very well could have peaked already. Or he could barely have scratched the surface.

He wouldnt be the first player to evolve after a season away from Hook. If you looked at Corey Norman at Broncos and Corey Norman 18 months after leaving them... he was a completely different player with skills you never saw at Broncos.

Nathan is plenty young to evolve as a player. All it takes is people identifying his flaws and working with him on them. But his flaws under Hook are hard to determine what's a flaw in Nathan and what was a flaw in how he was coached to play.

 

[Fangs]

He wouldnt be the first player to evolve after a season away from Hook. If you looked at Corey Norman at Broncos and Corey Norman 18 months after leaving them... he was a completely different player with skills you never saw at Broncos.

This is a good point.

Ive got doubts about Cleary. But I saw him being more vocal than usual during the finals which was a positive. And Corey Norman is a great example to suggest another coach will get more out of Cleary.

 

[franklin2323]

This is a good point.

Ive got doubts about Cleary. But I saw him being more vocal than usual during the finals which was a positive. And Corey Norman is a great example to suggest another coach will get more out of Cleary.

To be fair Norman hasn't set the world on fire as far as winning games but too soon to write off Cleary

 

[TheEroticGamer]

In relation to 2019 discussion, I think Roosters aren't a chance of challenging next year.

Cronk is no chance of playing nearly as well next year with his messed up shoulder at his age. Thurston absolutely shit the bed this year with it and he had three more months notice.

 

[PenrithPanther45]

In relation to 2019 discussion, I think Roosters aren't a chance of challenging next year.

Cronk is no chance of playing nearly as well next year with his messed up shoulder at his age. Thurston absolutely shit the bed this year with it and he had three more months notice.

If they lose this week's GF I am very fearful they win next year. More pressure, same squad - they'll have to. If they win this week, however, they'll suffer from the premier's curse you'd hope and Melbourne won't win without Slater anyway.

 

[OldPanther]

In relation to 2019 discussion, I think Roosters aren't a chance of challenging next year.

Cronk is no chance of playing nearly as well next year with his messed up shoulder at his age. Thurston absolutely shit the bed this year with it and he had three more months notice.

JT was good this year. It was the rest of the team that sucked

 

[herbert henry1908]

If that were true then every great halfback would be debuting at 18 and carving up from day one.

Nathan after 3 seasons of first grade and an Origin series is still younger then most halves are before they're able to secure the #7 jersey.

Every player develops at a different rate and experience is more crucial in different positions. Nathan very well could have peaked already. Or he could barely have scratched the surface.

He wouldnt be the first player to evolve after a season away from Hook. If you looked at Corey Norman at Broncos and Corey Norman 18 months after leaving them... he was a completely different player with skills you never saw at Broncos.

Nathan is plenty young to evolve as a player. All it takes is people identifying his flaws and working with him on them. But his flaws under Hook are hard to determine what's a flaw in Nathan and what was a flaw in how he was coached to play.

They would show flashes of it, yes.

I don’t expect every great half back to hit the ground running, but you’d see glimpses of what they’re capable of after 60 games. We’ve seen basically nothing from Nathan in terms of being able to create tries for his teammates.

Age isn’t the relevant factor either, experience is. 60 games in the NRL is more than enough to give a good evaluation of a players strengths & weaknesses.

 

[herbert henry1908]

To be fair Norman hasn't set the world on fire as far as winning games but too soon to write off Cleary

I’m not writing off Cleary.

I’m writing off his playmaking ability, particularly in the final 20-30m.

Nathan Cleary is a very good footballer, but he has serious limitations in a key aspect of halfback play.

 

[betcats]

Lucky we have secured a halfback who knows how to score points in the opposition 20 otherwise we’d be truely stuffed

Our lack of ability to score in the red zone is very much on hook imo. Maloney never had trouble in that area before got here.

That being said Nathan was playing well before the line for a lot of the season, but the style of footy just wasn’t giving our halves options.

 

[franklin2323]

I’m not writing off Cleary.

I’m writing off his playmaking ability, particularly in the final 20-30m.

Nathan Cleary is a very good footballer, but he has serious limitations in a key aspect of halfback play.

I have doubts over a few things next year. One of them is getting the help he needs on that right side. I think halfway into the 6 years we have him is when he will dominate.

The strength is he follows a game plan and works hard. Short term he'd be the one in the team that could nail a set play everytime. Get him working on that and his kicking game in the meantime

 

[OldPanther]

I have doubts over a few things next year. One of them is getting the help he needs on that right side. I think halfway into the 6 years we have him is when he will dominate.

The strength is he follows a game plan and works hard. Short term he'd be the one in the team that could nail a set play everytime. Get him working on that and his kicking game in the meantime

Nathan hasn't played under a first grade coach who values eyes up footy yet. Robinson was the same at the start of the year with the Roosters. Said he wanted to build the structures and let them go later in the year. Until Nathan has that kind of backing from a coach I refuse to say he's not a good playmaker.

 

[franklin2323]

Nathan hasn't played under a first grade coach who values eyes up footy yet. Robinson was the same at the start of the year with the Roosters. Said he wanted to build the structures and let them go later in the year. Until Nathan has that kind of backing from a coach I refuse to say he's not a good playmaker.

I back him down the track not sure he can read a game himself just yet. I have no doubt he will follow the game plan improve stuff like his kicking game. The issue is when we get about 10 games in and teams start reading the game plan. Can he react to play what's in front of him?

Look at the kick for the Waqa try v Storm. RCG was on the inside unmarked but he didn't even look. Only had eyes for the kick. That stuff a new coach won't fix but give him a few years it will change. Short term I don't expect to see much change though

 

[mxlegend99]

They would show flashes of it, yes.

I don’t expect every great half back to hit the ground running, but you’d see glimpses of what they’re capable of after 60 games. We’ve seen basically nothing from Nathan in terms of being able to create tries for his teammates.

Age isn’t the relevant factor either, experience is. 60 games in the NRL is more than enough to give a good evaluation of a players strengths & weaknesses.

You're right. Players dont ever improve after their 20s or evolve under new coaches. Nathan has peaked.

And yeah he hasnt even shown glimpses of being able to create tries. Oh unless ofcourse you've actually watched him play. His strike rate might not be as high as you like. But he has come up with some very nice try assists. Shown good vision a number of times on when to kick rather then pass. Or run himself before linking with others. As recently as 2 matches ago.

As he matures he will be able to use his experiences to more frequently come up with the right plays in situations like that. Throw in a new coach who will let him back himself and there's plenty of reason to be optimistic about him.

That's not to say it's a guarantee he gets better. There's no blanket rule for how players develop and evolve. He could very well have peaked already.

But when a player works as hard as Nathan does to improve. I am going to back him to do so. But on a new big deal he will certainly be held to a higher standard.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Panthers just posted this highlight reel of Nathan in the U20’s, and all the highlights are of him running the ball. This is his strength, and why I think he’s a good footballer. He however has never had natural playmaking ability, even before Hook.