Brisbane Tigers make their bid to be 18th team

[The Great Dane]

I'm comparing AFL attendances in Canberra to NRL attendances in Canberra, one of the only data points we have other than the regions TV ratings and on both counts NRL are in front.

You are providing nothing to this discussion other than 'because I said so' in the face of contrary evidence.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't change the fact that I've blown massive holes in your data. Those numbers simply don't show what you are claiming that they show, and we both know it.

It's honestly embarrassing that you continue to throw them out like they're unassailable facts, especially when you haven't even attempted to address the criticisms of them.

 

[The Great Dane]

I do

I don’t understand the obsession of removing Queanbyan and other NSW satellite towns and suburbs from the data for Canberra.

Some of these towns are closer the Civic and the centre of the city than over parts of Canberra! Most people living in the towns work in Canberra each day or has a family member who does.

They are part of culture and community of Canberra and the region. Which results in them following canberra named teams etc.

p.s. I spent 6 years living in Canberra and refereeing A grade there and also was a club secretary, so I have good understanding of the sporting make up of the region.

Unless you lived with your head up your arse for 6 years you'd know that the whole culture changes as soon as you cross the train tracks, and that people from said towns don't consider themselves to be part of Canberra or vice versa.

You'd also know that in truth a relative minority of the people from the surrounding regions follow Canberra based sports teams, including people from Queanbeyan, and that concerted efforts by ACT sides to grow their support in the regions outside of the ACT's borders have generally been catastrophic failures (particularly the Brumbies). The Raiders are probably the only one that have had any significant success in growing support in the Capital region and Southern NSW more generally, and that's got more to do with RL's popularity in the region than anything else.

Furthermore places as far afield as Wollongong, Wagga, Dubbo, and Orange, have been inserted into the discussion, and no reasonable person would consider any of them within the Capital Region, let alone 'satellite towns' lol.

The debate was about the rate of support in Canberra/the ACT, not the Capital Region or surrounding regions, just Canberra. Attempts to insert them into the discussion is just talking around the actual point.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't change the fact that I've blown massive holes in your data. Those numbers simply don't show what you are claiming that they show, and we both know it.

It's honestly embarrassing that you continue to throw them out like they're unassailable facts, especially when you haven't even attempted to address the criticisms of them.

Mate, your anecdotes don't refute actual data

 

[Willy2452]

My

Unless you lived with your head up your arse for 6 years you'd know that the whole culture changes as soon as you cross the train tracks, and that people from said towns don't consider themselves to be part of Canberra or vice versa.

You'd also know that in truth a relative minority of the people from the surrounding regions follow Canberra based sports teams, including people from Queanbeyan, and that concerted efforts by ACT sides to grow their support in the regions outside of the ACT's borders have generally been catastrophic failures (particularly the Brumbies). The Raiders are probably the only one that have had any significant success in growing support in the Capital region and Southern NSW more generally, and that's got more to do with RL's popularity in the region than anything else.

Furthermore places as far afield as Wollongong, Wagga, Dubbo, and Orange, have been inserted into the discussion, and no reasonable person would consider any of them within the Capital Region, let alone 'satellite towns' lol.

The debate was about the rate of support in Canberra/the ACT, not the Capital Region or surrounding regions, just Canberra. Attempts to insert them into the discussion is just talking around the actual point.

The point is just looking at ACT/Canberra in isolation adds no value because 1/4 of the population of Canberra metro lives across the border. So why waste your time looking for the data.

Also looking at the number of clubs doesn't mean much, just flags on a map. Most Canberra based rugby league clubs are much larger in terms or number teams than average across Australia. Also some of the junior clubs have affiliates with with small club in NSW they play in to 2nd Division competition within the Canberra Region Rugbyeague. For the 1st Division Raiders Cup Senior clubs, there is little incentive to make more Clubs because of the high quality of the competition, which 150k-200k a year required to win a premiership. Canberra Raider’s Cup in term of quality is in a close ball park to Newcastle, Woologong and Sydney shield.
To end my statement, I just think the Great dane is wasting time in try measure only part of pie because when sponsors, tv companies and the club access’s it potential fan base, it is not counting Queanbeyan in this calculation?

p.s. the Raiders run the canberra REGION rugby league, so they already understand their market….

 

[Perth Red]

Anyone got access they can cut and paste please?

https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fsport%2Fnrl%2Fteams%2Fbroncos%2Fnrl-2023-ezra-mams-incredible-performance-for-broncos-in-grand-final-set-to-cause-cap-chaos%2Fnews-story%2F43d2a2fc079c62d1224963678f793cf9&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=LOW-Segment-1-SCORE

 

[The Great Dane]

Mate, your anecdotes don't refute actual data

I've provided actual data and conclusively shown that yours is flawed. . . You're just being dishonest.

 

[The Great Dane]

My

The point is just looking at ACT/Canberra in isolation adds no value because 1/4 of the population of Canberra metro lives across the border. So why waste your time looking for the data.

Also looking at the number of clubs doesn't mean much, just flags on a map. Most Canberra based rugby league clubs are much larger in terms or number teams than average across Australia. Also some of the junior clubs have affiliates with with small club in NSW they play in to 2nd Division competition within the Canberra Region Rugbyeague. For the 1st Division Raiders Cup Senior clubs, there is little incentive to make more Clubs because of the high quality of the competition, which 150k-200k a year required to win a premiership. Canberra Raider’s Cup in term of quality is in a close ball park to Newcastle, Woologong and Sydney shield.
To end my statement, I just think the Great dane is wasting time in try measure only part of pie because when sponsors, tv companies and the club access’s it potential fan base, it is not counting Queanbeyan in this calculation?

p.s. the Raiders run the canberra REGION rugby league, so they already understand their market….

I didn't just look at the number of clubs. I laid out the number of clubs and teams in Canberra, and proved conclusively that Aussie Rules has more participants than RL in the ACT (not including touch and tag, which is a grey area, and a debate for another time), though it's very close, like I said it would be.

Since you were late to the argument let me make it crystal clear; the argument has nothing to do with measuring the Raiders fanbase or market size for sponsorship, broadcasters, etc. The argument began when I claimed that Aussie Rules and Rugby league are similarly popular in Canberra, and that a Canberran AFL side would be of similar size to the Raiders, if not slightly bigger, from day one.

When I made those claims I was referring directly to the city of Canberra itself, not the broader region, and attempting to insert Queanbeyan and the rest of the region into the discussion at best fails to address the point, and at worst is either an attempt to move the goal posts or a non sequitur.

BTW, one of the major reasons why, among other things, Aussie Rules and Rugby Union are more popular participation sports than RL in the ACT is because there is no ACTRL that exists independently of the Raiders to administer the sport in the region. But that's a whole other discussion.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I've provided actual data and conclusively shown that yours is flawed. . . You're just being dishonest.

No, it's your opinion that a Canberra AFL team would be bigger or as big as the Raiders from day one. You have zero evidence that this is true

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Lol@The Great Dope's pointless data.

 

[MugaB]

Lol@The Great Dope's pointless data.

DAMN DAWG!!!

 

[Vee]

Anyone got access they can cut and paste please?

https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fsport%2Fnrl%2Fteams%2Fbroncos%2Fnrl-2023-ezra-mams-incredible-performance-for-broncos-in-grand-final-set-to-cause-cap-chaos%2Fnews-story%2F43d2a2fc079c62d1224963678f793cf9&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=LOW-Segment-1-SCORE

Not sure if this is it...

Electric Ezra Mam has declared he is staying at the Broncos with the playmaking young gun poised to ink a mega extension worth up to $3 million.

Breaking his silence on his future, Brisbane’s grand-final star says he has no intention of quitting the club and will emulate the loyalty of Payne Haas and Pat Carrigan in a huge retention coup for the Broncos.

The boom five-eighth produced the game of his life last Sunday night, scoring an 11-minute hat-trick in Brisbane’s heartbreaking 26-24 grand-final loss to the Panthers at Sydney’s Accor Stadium.

Mam became the sixth player in rugby league history to score three tries in a grand final and just the second Bronco to achieve the feat after Steve Renouf’s treble to sink Cronulla 26-8 in the 1997 Super League grand final.

Mam’s sizzling performance almost saw him win the Clive Churchill Medal and put him in the shopfront window for NRL rivals with a display that triggered a potential bidding war for the classy 20-year-old.

Mam is currently contracted to Brisbane until the end of next season and the Ipswich sensation has the ability to test his value on the open market when he becomes a free agent from November 1.

But the quick-stepping pivot has uttered the words every Brisbane fan wanted to hear, insisting he has no interest in a big-money bidding war as he closes in on a massive Broncos upgrade.

Haas and Carrigan inked three and five-year upgrades respectively earlier this season and Mam revealed he is buying into Brisbane’s player pact to stick together to break the club’s 18-year premiership drought next season.

“That’s my aim, to stay here at the Broncos,” Mam said as the dust settles on Brisbane’s agonising grand-final defeat. “I want to start another generation here.

“It (signing a new deal) would definitely be a great opportunity to jump on the bandwagon here with the other boys and make the Broncos great again. Seeing Payne re-sign and all the other boys stay here, it’s a huge factor for myself. Hopefully we can get that (new) deal done soon. I’ll be here for a long time.”

This masthead can reveal the Broncos have tabled a new contract offer to Mam’s management.

The parties are still in negotiations, but the Broncos would prefer a longer-term deal, in the range of three to five years, to ensure Mam is under lock and key at Red Hill until at least the end of 2027 and possibly longer.

Mam, who only made his NRL debut 17 months ago, is on around $250,000 this season, but he is due for a significant upgrade after a superb 2023 campaign that saw him score 18 tries from 25 games.

A four-year deal would start at an estimated $750,000 a season, with incremental increases in line with the NRL salary cap pushing Mam towards the $900,000 mark.

The Indigenous playmaker could earn more elsewhere, but Mam is prepared to make a financial sacrifice to ensure the Broncos retain spinal members Reece Walsh and Adam Reynolds and construct a title-winning squad.

“I love the Broncos because of the culture and the professionalism of the club,” said Mam, who has played 38 NRL games. “It’s a great bond we have here and it’s important we keep this team together. Keeping that bond means a lot to me and I want to be part of keeping the bond here for a long time.”

A shattered Mam shed tears in the moments after Brisbane’s grand-final collapse and there are fears the Broncos’ slew of emerging stars could carry scar tissue from botching a 24-8 lead against Penrith into next season.

But a week on from Brisbane’s incomprehensible free fall, Mam is adamant Broncos players will channel the pain into premiership redemption in 2024.

“I think this loss will make us stronger and a better team,” he said. "We saw it a few years ago where Penrith lost the grand final (in 2020) and they have gone on to win three premierships. We can take a lot out of this year and hopefully we can kick on and win it next year and the next year and the next year after that. It will be good to see where we are at. We will enjoy our break, let the loss hurt, then get back to pre-season and work hard.”

Entering this season, the jury was out on Mam at five-eighth after he was defensively exposed at the back end of the 2022 campaign.

But the Queensland Origin hopeful muscled-up in defence this season and said he is consistently driven by the knowledge club greats such as Darren Lockyer and Wally Lewis have donned the No.6 jumper.

“Some special players before me have played in the No.6 jersey and made it great,” he said. “I always remind myself of the history of the jumper and this club. Kevvie’ (coach Kevin Walters) said to me in pre-season I had to play well and if I lose the jumper, it’s on me … if I play well, then I will keep it. He definitely motivated me to get better and play good footy.

“It’s now on me to enjoy the break and come back to pre-season ready to go next year.”

 

[Vee]

HAAS URGES EZRA TO STAY AS KEVVIE PROMISES PREMIERSHIPS WILL COME

Superstar prop Payne Haas has appealed for boom five-eighth Ezra Mam not to walk out on Brisbane as coach Kevin Walters boldly declared several titles are coming to the Broncos.

The Broncos are facing a potential $1 million bidding war for Mam in the wake of the young gun’s stunning three-try performance in Brisbane’s heartbreaking 26-24 grand-final loss to Penrith last Sunday night.

Off-contract at the end of next season, Mam becomes a free agent on November 1, giving the Broncos a 25-day headstart to secure the 20-year-old to an extended deal before rival NRL clubs come knocking.

An NRL debutant just 17 months ago, Mam is on around $250,000 this season and his market value has soared beyond the $700,000 mark in the wake of his brilliant grand-final display against the Panthers.

Mam’s sensational hat-trick in the decider has only amplified salary-cap pressure on the Broncos, who are moving quickly to extend the classy pivot – just as they did with Haas eight weeks ago.

In August, Haas inked a $3.5 million extension to remain at Brisbane until the end of 2026, opting against going to free agency after his manager initially flagged plans to test the market from November 1.

Haas followed star lock Pat Carrigan’s lead by staying loyal and Brisbane’s newly-crowned Paul Morgan Medallist urged Mam to keep the faith in the Broncos’ quest to snap an 18-year title drought.

“I hope he stays loyal,” Haas said. “It would be great to keep a player like Ezra. He has been at the club since a young age, around 15, so I really hope we can keep him.”

Haas, who equalled the legendary Allan Langer with his fifth Paul Morgan Medal on Thursday night, said he was blown away by Mam’s bravery this season after the rookie struggled in defence at the back end of his maiden 2022 campaign.

The Ipswich whiz-kid finished with 18 tries from 25 games this season, prompting Haas to proclaim Mam can be one of the NRL’s most dominant playmakers in the years to come.

“His defence was great for us this season,” Haas said of Mam. “Ezra is tenacious, he goes hard and he is aggressive. You don’t often see that from halves, so he is a different type of half and I feel like he can be one of the best halves in the comp.”

 

[Perth Red]

Not sure if this is it...

Electric Ezra Mam has declared he is staying at the Broncos with the playmaking young gun poised to ink a mega extension worth up to $3 million.

Breaking his silence on his future, Brisbane’s grand-final star says he has no intention of quitting the club and will emulate the loyalty of Payne Haas and Pat Carrigan in a huge retention coup for the Broncos.

The boom five-eighth produced the game of his life last Sunday night, scoring an 11-minute hat-trick in Brisbane’s heartbreaking 26-24 grand-final loss to the Panthers at Sydney’s Accor Stadium.

Mam became the sixth player in rugby league history to score three tries in a grand final and just the second Bronco to achieve the feat after Steve Renouf’s treble to sink Cronulla 26-8 in the 1997 Super League grand final.

Mam’s sizzling performance almost saw him win the Clive Churchill Medal and put him in the shopfront window for NRL rivals with a display that triggered a potential bidding war for the classy 20-year-old.

Mam is currently contracted to Brisbane until the end of next season and the Ipswich sensation has the ability to test his value on the open market when he becomes a free agent from November 1.

But the quick-stepping pivot has uttered the words every Brisbane fan wanted to hear, insisting he has no interest in a big-money bidding war as he closes in on a massive Broncos upgrade.

Haas and Carrigan inked three and five-year upgrades respectively earlier this season and Mam revealed he is buying into Brisbane’s player pact to stick together to break the club’s 18-year premiership drought next season.

“That’s my aim, to stay here at the Broncos,” Mam said as the dust settles on Brisbane’s agonising grand-final defeat. “I want to start another generation here.

“It (signing a new deal) would definitely be a great opportunity to jump on the bandwagon here with the other boys and make the Broncos great again. Seeing Payne re-sign and all the other boys stay here, it’s a huge factor for myself. Hopefully we can get that (new) deal done soon. I’ll be here for a long time.”

This masthead can reveal the Broncos have tabled a new contract offer to Mam’s management.

The parties are still in negotiations, but the Broncos would prefer a longer-term deal, in the range of three to five years, to ensure Mam is under lock and key at Red Hill until at least the end of 2027 and possibly longer.

Mam, who only made his NRL debut 17 months ago, is on around $250,000 this season, but he is due for a significant upgrade after a superb 2023 campaign that saw him score 18 tries from 25 games.

A four-year deal would start at an estimated $750,000 a season, with incremental increases in line with the NRL salary cap pushing Mam towards the $900,000 mark.

The Indigenous playmaker could earn more elsewhere, but Mam is prepared to make a financial sacrifice to ensure the Broncos retain spinal members Reece Walsh and Adam Reynolds and construct a title-winning squad.

“I love the Broncos because of the culture and the professionalism of the club,” said Mam, who has played 38 NRL games. “It’s a great bond we have here and it’s important we keep this team together. Keeping that bond means a lot to me and I want to be part of keeping the bond here for a long time.”

A shattered Mam shed tears in the moments after Brisbane’s grand-final collapse and there are fears the Broncos’ slew of emerging stars could carry scar tissue from botching a 24-8 lead against Penrith into next season.

But a week on from Brisbane’s incomprehensible free fall, Mam is adamant Broncos players will channel the pain into premiership redemption in 2024.

“I think this loss will make us stronger and a better team,” he said. "We saw it a few years ago where Penrith lost the grand final (in 2020) and they have gone on to win three premierships. We can take a lot out of this year and hopefully we can kick on and win it next year and the next year and the next year after that. It will be good to see where we are at. We will enjoy our break, let the loss hurt, then get back to pre-season and work hard.”

Entering this season, the jury was out on Mam at five-eighth after he was defensively exposed at the back end of the 2022 campaign.

But the Queensland Origin hopeful muscled-up in defence this season and said he is consistently driven by the knowledge club greats such as Darren Lockyer and Wally Lewis have donned the No.6 jumper.

“Some special players before me have played in the No.6 jersey and made it great,” he said. “I always remind myself of the history of the jumper and this club. Kevvie’ (coach Kevin Walters) said to me in pre-season I had to play well and if I lose the jumper, it’s on me … if I play well, then I will keep it. He definitely motivated me to get better and play good footy.

“It’s now on me to enjoy the break and come back to pre-season ready to go next year.”

No, it’s a story about dolphins v firehawks going by the snippet.

 

[Wb1234]

Aussie Rules popularity in Canberra has absolutely nothing to do with SL, but go ahead and believe that statistics that include sampling from Wollongong, Dubbo, Orange, etc, are the best way to measure the popularity of each sport in Canberra like Tito if you wish.

It might not but your support of afl has a lot to do with super league

 

[The Great Dane]

No, it's your opinion that a Canberra AFL team would be bigger or as big as the Raiders from day one. You have zero evidence that this is true

I never claimed I had empirical evidence for that claim, you can't present evidence that doesn't exist, however you have zero evidence that it isn't true either... I did however provide the only reliable and comparable data for the claim that Aussie Rules and RL are similar size in Canberra and showed that your evidence was flawed.

I'm sorry it upsets you that Canberra isn't a RL stronghold in your stupid code war, but it is what it is.

 

[The Great Dane]

Lol@The Great Dope's pointless data.

I'm not the one that started demanding pointless data...

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I never claimed I had empirical evidence for that claim, you can't present evidence that doesn't exist, however you have zero evidence that it isn't true either... I did however provide the only reliable and comparable data for the claim that Aussie Rules and RL are similar size in Canberra and showed that your evidence was flawed.

I'm sorry it upsets you that Canberra isn't a RL stronghold in your stupid code war, but it is what it is.

Thanks for owning up to it. So for now we'll go with what we know. NRL outdraws AFL in Canberra

 

[The Great Dane]

Thanks for owning up to it. So for now we'll go with what we know. NRL outdraws AFL in Canberra

It isn't 'owning up to it' if you never claimed otherwise, as opposed to you who is still dishonest enough to claim that comparing GWS's attendance to the Raiders is a reasonable way to measure the popularity of each sport in the city with a straight face, and still hasn't admitted that the TV ratings he alluded to were nonsense as well.

Wollongong being included in "Canberra's" ratings was good enough for you, so why not include the Dragons average attendance in Wollongong into your attendance numbers in Canberra as well?

 

[Vee]

Try this one...

An expansion turf war has erupted in Brisbane after Firehawks bid chief Shane Richardson accused the Dolphins of stealing his club’s blueprint and claimed the Broncos should have won 30 straight premierships.

The Brisbane Tigers – formerly known as Easts – are ramping up their bid to become the NRL’s 18th team and pushing hard to join the competition from 2026.

They have enlisted one of the NRL’s most experienced administrators in former South Sydney chief Richardson to lead their campaign for a licence.

Richardson has presented a compelling campaign for the Tigers’ bid, which was called the Brisbane Firehawks when they took on the Dolphins and Jets in the battle to become the NRL’s 17th club, to be included.

Richardson made some sensational claims on The Bye Round podcast with James Graham recently.

“We are a real rugby league club, we’ve been doing it for 90 years and have pathways from under-6s,” he said.

“We’ve got our own ground, no debt, $80-90 million worth of assets debt-free and $26 million in the bank. We ran second to the Redcliffe side in the last bid and I think our marketing plan was better. I know it was better because I think they’ve stolen most of it.”

Richardson rubbished the case for an NRL team in Perth, Cairns/PNG, New Zealand or the return of the North Sydney Bears and said Brisbane could sustain a third club. He claimed the Broncos were never supportive of expansion and should have won many more NRL premierships due to their stranglehold on Queensland.

“When the NRL came up with the 17th team, they were really heavy on ‘I think this is going to cannibalise Brisbane’,” Richardson said. “Brisbane made that point too. They were never supportive of it. They had the whole control of Brisbane. They’ve had the greatest run. They should have been premiers every year for the last 30 years. They had the whole of Queensland under their control and have had the whole of south east Queensland under their control forever.”

 

[Perth Red]

Try this one...

An expansion turf war has erupted in Brisbane after Firehawks bid chief Shane Richardson accused the Dolphins of stealing his club’s blueprint and claimed the Broncos should have won 30 straight premierships.

The Brisbane Tigers – formerly known as Easts – are ramping up their bid to become the NRL’s 18th team and pushing hard to join the competition from 2026.

They have enlisted one of the NRL’s most experienced administrators in former South Sydney chief Richardson to lead their campaign for a licence.

Richardson has presented a compelling campaign for the Tigers’ bid, which was called the Brisbane Firehawks when they took on the Dolphins and Jets in the battle to become the NRL’s 17th club, to be included.

Richardson made some sensational claims on The Bye Round podcast with James Graham recently.

“We are a real rugby league club, we’ve been doing it for 90 years and have pathways from under-6s,” he said.

“We’ve got our own ground, no debt, $80-90 million worth of assets debt-free and $26 million in the bank. We ran second to the Redcliffe side in the last bid and I think our marketing plan was better. I know it was better because I think they’ve stolen most of it.”

Richardson rubbished the case for an NRL team in Perth, Cairns/PNG, New Zealand or the return of the North Sydney Bears and said Brisbane could sustain a third club. He claimed the Broncos were never supportive of expansion and should have won many more NRL premierships due to their stranglehold on Queensland.

“When the NRL came up with the 17th team, they were really heavy on ‘I think this is going to cannibalise Brisbane’,” Richardson said. “Brisbane made that point too. They were never supportive of it. They had the whole control of Brisbane. They’ve had the greatest run. They should have been premiers every year for the last 30 years. They had the whole of Queensland under their control and have had the whole of south east Queensland under their control forever.”

That’s the one. Thanks!