Brisbane2 Bid News

[smithie]

I can't see the Sea eagles going back to Bluetongue, the Sunshine Coast Eagles would be a much better fit. Brookvale just isn't up to a National standard. There should be a team at the Central Coast by 2018, whether it is the Bears or not is up to the people of the region.

 

[Goddo]

The Sharks are broke send them to Brisbane, or Adelaide or New Zealand. Manly can't upgrade Brookvale and already have links with the Sunshine Coast, Roosters lack juniors and supporters in general, there is always Central QLD. There are teams currently in the NRL who have done bugger all, spent bugger all and survive on hand outs. Yet you want to reward these teams with a license yet punish one who already has relocated? spent millions on their new region with infrastructure and programs by relocating them again? Think for a second will you.

2013 - WA Reds (your money cow) & Central Coast Bears (your guaranteed supported team with everything in place, shored up and ready to start recruiting now)

2017 - New Zealand (your money cow) & Ipswich (your guaranteed supported team once the bid has secured sponsors, fans etc)

+ Adelaide or Brisbane left for the Sharks and/or Roosters with big incentives
+ Central Queensland or Sunshine Coast left for the Sea Eagles and/or Roosters with big incentives.

Let's reward hardwork and go forward, not stagnating and day dreaming.

And now we come to it - even you, the head cheergirl of the 11th NSW team bid, don't think there is a stable future in NSW for 11 teams.

I can understand your desire for a CC/North Sydney bid, trying to mimic the St George Illawarra structure. But the NRL shouldn't be handing out more licences in NSW if it doesn't have some sort of plan for dealing with the current weak teams.

You want your team back and you will be happy if its the result of other clubs folding/relocating.

Ok, thats your angle as a Norths fan, but try seeing it from the NRL's perspective - they have a covenant to do whats in the best interests of the CURRENT teams, and the game of Rugby League as a whole.

The Independent commission will be elected and acting on behalf of the 16 clubs, the NSWRL and QRL. Why on earth would they want another NSW team? Really? When there are options that will generate more revenue, potentially open new advertising markets, and future juniors?

There is no doubt that the Bears are potentially stronger than a couple of current NRL sides (Manly without a new stadium, Cronulla, Penrith), but that isn't enough. Expansion should by the very definition of the word expand upon what is already there.

The NRL should look to Brisbane and Perth for the next expansion, and hold the Bears in reserve in the event of Cronulla folding or Manly relocating.

EDIT

By-the-by, I personally would have no problems if the NRL decided to boot the Sharks and bring in Brisbane, Perth and Central Coast, but the ARLC won't do that. They might nudge a team to move, or offer financial incentives to merge, but they won't liquidate a club.

In fact, legally, they probably can't. There are 2 court cases that set a precident there - Wests in 1983 and Souths in 2001.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

And now we come to it - even you, the head cheergirl of the 11th NSW team bid, don't think there is a stable future in NSW for 11 teams.

I can understand your desire for a CC/North Sydney bid, trying to mimic the St George Illawarra structure. But the NRL shouldn't be handing out more licences in NSW if it doesn't have some sort of plan for dealing with the current weak teams.

You want your team back and you will be happy if its the result of other clubs folding/relocating.

Ok, thats your angle as a Norths fan, but try seeing it from the NRL's perspective - they have a covenant to do whats in the best interests of the CURRENT teams, and the game of Rugby League as a whole.

The Independent commission will be elected and acting on behalf of the 16 clubs, the NSWRL and QRL. Why on earth would they want another NSW team? Really? When there are options that will generate more revenue, potentially open new advertising markets, and future juniors?

There is no doubt that the Bears are potentially stronger than a couple of current NRL sides (Manly without a new stadium, Cronulla, Penrith), but that isn't enough. Expansion should by the very definition of the word expand upon what is already there.

The NRL should look to Brisbane and Perth for the next expansion, and hold the Bears in reserve in the event of Cronulla folding or Manly relocating.

EDIT

By-the-by, I personally would have no problems if the NRL decided to boot the Sharks and bring in Brisbane, Perth and Central Coast, but the ARLC won't do that. They might nudge a team to move, or offer financial incentives to merge, but they won't liquidate a club.

In fact, legally, they probably can't. There are 2 court cases that set a precident there - Wests in 1983 and Souths in 2001.

First of all mate don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say I want a club to die so the Central Coast Bears can come in. All I did was outline one of many possibilities and made a reference to the financial troubles of one club which would reap more rewards relocating to the Sunshine Coast for example then the Bears would, considering what has been spent so far. If we're going to continue this debate then at least have the decency to reply to what is written, not what you wish was written.

 

[Goddo]

Ok, so you don't think there are too many clubs in NSW?

Can I get a comment from you on this bit though:

they have a covenant to do whats in the best interests of the CURRENT teams, and the game of Rugby League as a whole.

The Independent commission will be elected and acting on behalf of the 16 clubs, the NSWRL and QRL. Why on earth would they want another NSW team? Really? When there are options that will generate more revenue, potentially open new advertising markets, and future juniors?

You seem to always ignore that part of an arguement when its presented and focus on symantics or flaming a poster over something else.

 

[clarency]

I didn't say I want a club to die so the Central Coast Bears can come in.

You want your team back and you will be happy if its the result of other clubs folding/relocating.

Ok, thats your angle as a Norths fan, but try seeing it from the NRL's perspective - they have a covenant to do whats in the best interests of the CURRENT teams, and the game of Rugby League as a whole.

I freely admit that I would like to see an existing weak NSW NRL club die to accommodate the entrance of CCB. In fact I'd say it's a giant step forward if this were to happen.

You don't know that that is the NRL's perspective. In fact I'd suggest the contrary. The CURRENT teams do what's in the best interest for the CURRENT teams. The NRL does what is in the best interest for the NRL.

If that means chopping and changing the league line up for financial, or supporter increase then so be it. Having an existing license doesn't mean you can run the team poorly and continue operations.

Analogy: If I'm running a national business with various stores located around the country, my interests are in business operations as a whole, not merely the existing stores. If stores are losing me money and I see potential business in untapped areas, I simply remove the liabilities and set up establishments in the new markets. Every successful business does this. This is how the ESL is run.

Whether the NRL does it comes down to how smart the IC members are.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Can I get a comment from you on this bit though:
The Independent commission will be elected and acting on behalf of the 16 clubs, the NSWRL and QRL. Why on earth would they want another NSW team? Really? When there are options that will generate more revenue, potentially open new advertising markets, and future juniors?

Sure.

Considering how many people live in NSW, no there isn't too many teams and I think they can sustain their current teams. However it will require hard work for many clubs to fix themselves. I have faith though.

The Central Coast Bears are generating more revenue going to the Central Coast because the demand is obviously there. If there wasn't a demand, our memberships wouldn't so high and we wouldn't have as much fanfare as we do.

Like wise the new advertising market.

As far as future juniors go, 7900 on the Central Coast and North Shore.

If the Central Coast (with no team) isn't considered expansion then how is Brisbane (with a team called the Broncos) considered expansion? That's what I'd like to know. There won't be a big difference at all between the markets. It's going to come down to how much the communities want a franchise.

I freely admit that I would like to see an existing weak NSW NRL club die to accommodate the entrance of CCB. In fact I'd say it's a giant step forward if this were to happen.

You don't know that that is the NRL's perspective. In fact I'd suggest the contrary. The CURRENT teams do what's in the best interest for the CURRENT teams. The NRL does what is in the best interest for the NRL.

If that means chopping and changing the league line up for financial, or supporter increase then so be it. Having an existing license doesn't mean you can run the team poorly and continue operations.

Analogy: If I'm running a national business with various stores located around the country, my interests are in business operations as a whole, not merely the existing stores. If stores are losing me money and I see potential business in untapped areas, I simply remove the liabilities and set up establishments in the new markets. Every successful business does this. This is how the ESL is run.

Whether the NRL does it comes down to how smart the IC members are.

I honestly can't argue with that however I prefer that no club folds just so we can bring in the Central Coast Bears. I don't want any club to have to call it a day, however if other opportunities present themselves like eg: big cash incentives for relocation, then they'd be silly to not look at is atleast.

 

[dangerousdave]

I think Ive said it before but Ipswich-Toowoomba would be a great bid Idea. 2 communities like the Saints and 2 fanbases who would be stoaked to be included in something as big as the NRL

 

[bobmar28]

Have you ever travelled to and from the Central Coast to Sydney? 70kms turns into 2 hours, 4 hours round trip to watch a 80minute game. I think we are in a position to pull that card, especially if Gallop himself has expressed the difficulty of a large population going from point a) to point b) every weekend. It ends up being costly, long trip for young families especially and therefore puts young families off due to that reason.

SE.Queensland have one team smack bang in the middle of the city of Brisbane and another 40 minutes away by train, which stops right on the door steps of Skilled Park. If that isn't easy or convenient then I don't know what is. Furthermore Central Queensland is a good 4-5+ hour trip one way to either SE.QLD or North QLD.

But like I said previously, these 2 area's have achieved more and much more actually in any regard then Brisbane 2. When we talk about bids and measure them to each other, when concerning Brisbane 2 it's always about what might happen.. with Central Coast it's what IS happening. Don't take getting on the front foot and working for what you want for granted. No bid is going to get a license on a platter though I would assume most of you think Brisbane will all due to geography. Please, Perth is more assured of getting a license then any current bid and they too are putting in hardwork and working for that license. The NRL want to see active work being done in the communities, such was the importance when the Gold Coast Titans won their license. Fans are the one's who buy Foxtel subscriptions, turn up to games, buy memberships, buy merchandise etc.. only a couple of bids have the fan support to already be actively doing this. Can you have a guess who?

People claim that the Bulldogs taking a game to Brisbane is fishing where the fish are? Well out of all the bids, the Central Coast get the most games taken there. Obviously fishing where the fish are. Not only that but we aren't impacting on anyone's supporter group. Who do you think Brisbane 2 will target? The large asian communities of south Brisbane? No, they will target the 10% Brisbane based Bulldogs members, the 25% Brisbane based Titans members, the 10% Brisbane based Dragons members and so on and so forth. In other words dilution. Prove to me otherwise and I'll happily retract the comment and admit I am wrong in this regard.

Will you concede that NSW already has too many teams and adding another would be insane?

 

[bobmar28]

Here you go again.. probably.. maybe.. one day...

$20 bare minimum for a team that doesn't exist. Though the mean average is $40 x 6800 and that's before we go into the 80 x $5500. I've been through this on more then 3 occassions in the Central Coast Bears thread already. Look it up. At the end of the day it's more revenue and money in the bank.

If it takes no commitment to click LIKE on a facebook page then why is Brisbane 2 only have 470 fans????????

Memberships are important to any bid, it shows actual financial commitment for a team. It trumps anything to do with petitions, internet polls etc. We have ran a survey in regards to season tickets once if we get a license and an overwhemling 95% of members replied with name your price, take our money because we'll definitely be members. We are running our line almost directly to that of the Titans but it's far more developed and has more financial clout then the Titans did at the same stage.

If memberships aren't important, call up St.George Illawarra up right now and ask them just how UN-important memberships really are.;-)



My ex-NRL team is gone, the North Sydney Bears aren't coming back. My new potential NRL team is the Central Coast Bears and i'll fight tooth and nail for the regions right to have their own team. EVEN though I'm a Brisbane boy and Queenslander through and through.. This isn't about states, this isn't about geography, this is about a rapidly growing, rugby league region finally getting the team they deserved through hardwork, commitment and resources. When all is said and done, people like myself, Beowulf and the hundreds of volunteers will have done more for the game of rugby league then any one of the cynical people who sit on their arse and think their opinion is king.. without ever putting in a day's hardwork for the game or for their team. We don't expect anything on a platter, all the numbers and figures I constantly post up are a result of hardwork. We'll work for everything we get and have achieved. Which will be further proof of sustainability, support and commitment.

A rapidly growing rugby league region like Brisbane's southwest corridor?

 

[Talons]

If the Sea Eagles were to relocate to the Sunshine coast what about the loss of rugby league to supporters living between the spit bridge and Palm Beach.
Wouldn't we just be creating another empty corridor to the North of Sydney?

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Will you concede that NSW already has too many teams and adding another would be insane?

Simple, Bears already have their own pool of fans and supporters. How can anyone not see this? It's not dilution if you're tapping into an untapped pool. People whom support Rugby League in Brisbane already have a team. If not the Broncos, then the Titans, if not the Titans then someone else. Where as Bears fans are well, Bears fans. If anyone actually thought they'd all suddenly die out in 10 years then they are kidding themselves. Clearly even on this board there are fans of the bid whom support the Bears first. It's only dilution once we start taking away fans from other clubs. Which we haven't and which we won't.

 

[Quidgybo]

How can anyone not see this?

Most of us do. The problem is you don't see that another Queensland/Brisbane team is worth significantly more in television revenue and crowds than another team between Newcastle and Wollongong. It's not about who works the hardest or who deserves a license the most. It's about which two of the three or four bids that meet the NRL's baseline for a license will most benefit the game as a whole. Who can sign the most $20 members or show the most community engagement is a sideshow to the television revenue impact.

Nine and Fox already have a choice of 10 teams with which to maximise their ratings in NSW on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. Even if half those teams are going badly, there's still enough choice to come up with three matches that rate their socks off in NSW. But NSW is not where they need more choice to maximise ratings. It's in the next biggest Rugby League market that they need a larger choice of teams to televise. How is a Central Coast team going to help maximise ratings in Queensland on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday?

The raw hard cash and how that extra cash will benefit the entire game over the term of the next contract is why one of the Queensland bids will get the nod over the Bears in my opinion. If and when that comes I won't be dancing around saying I told you so but you need to face up to the reality that this decision will be driven by the TV rights deal. And in that respect the Bears need to show how an 11th team NSW team is going to increase ratings as much as a 4th Queensland team. Specifically ratings in Queensland.

Leigh.

 

[Goddo]

How do you not see that R&B?

The Bears last best chance of getting back in is Cronulla or Manly folding or relocating. Manly aren't going to fold, but they might relocate because of the stadium issues. But relocating would require the Bears waiting until the next expansion cycle after Manly relocating. Which might be 10-15 years away if it happens at all.

Cronulla may fold, may not, but are unlikely to move unless pushed by the NRL with a big financial carrot. But that would require the NRL to have a load of money to throw at them - which they won't have until the next TV deal, and the next TV deal will only be big if they negotiate well and expand sensibly.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

How do you not see that R&B?

With W.A. Reds bringing in a new time slot and being the big cash cow, the high-risk expansion option in Gallop's own words. The Central Coast Bears are the low-risk expansion option, we create an extra game, in a region with no current team but there is high demand there. That's how we will bring the $$, that's how revenue will be covered. I have absolute faith that what we will bring to the table isn't much different to what Brisbane can bring to the table. The big difference however is the fan support, corporate support and progression of the bid itself. We have proven that the Central Coast region is ready for a team. With demand comes purchasing, with purchasing comes revenue. Everything is covered. I'm sorry but there isn't much any of you guys can say to make me think otherwise. I've seen the bid grow from an idea to an establishment within 3 years. I have the upmost confidence that we are the right move for the NRL. Let them concentrate on W.A. and help develop the state and their future team while in the mean time the Central Coast Bears will require no assistance. We won't hamper any team, won't dilute any market and will bring revenue to the game regardless.

 

[Quidgybo]

The big difference however is the fan support, corporate support and progression of the bid itself.

No, the big difference is the number of matches available that can maxmise ratings over multiple timeslots in Queensland each week. The networks simply don't have the same problem doing that in NSW.

Leigh.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

No, the big difference is the number of matches available that can maxmise ratings over multiple timeslots in Queensland each week. The networks just don't have the same problem doing that in NSW.

Leigh.

You're walking into this blindly though. You can't fabricate a team just for one organization. You need support, fans and demand. The people will be the one's who dictate a teams fortunes, they will be the one's who turn up to games, buy foxtel, turn on the TV, buy merchandise, buy memberships etc.. We have the hub of supporters willing to do that already or are in the process of doing that right now.

It's quite clear that I cannot change your views and you guys cannot change mine on this matter. Let's call it a stalemate and continue on our way. People like myself and Beowulf will continue to actively engage with the Central Coast Bears and whilst none of you are prepared to do the same for Brisbane 2, I'm sure you will continue to beat their drum online.

 

[Quidgybo]

It's quite clear that I cannot change your views and you guys cannot change mine on this matter. Let's call it a stalemate and continue on our way. People like myself and Beowulf will continue to actively engage with the Central Coast Bears and whilst none of you are prepared to do the same for Brisbane 2, I'm sure you will continue to beat their drum online.

I'm not beating Brisbane2's drum, I'm just telling you why I think the NRL will choose one of the Queensland bids. It's all about the big money that television will pay. As I said, I won't be dancing around saying I told you so if that's what comes. I just hope for the sake of the Central Coast bid and their fans that they have a solid plan B. You deserve a team. But deserving it or working the hardest simply won't be enough to get an *expansion license* in my opinion. The television money will dictate where the new licenses go.

Leigh.

 

[macavity]

Simple, Bears already have their own pool of fans and supporters. How can anyone not see this? It's not dilution if you're tapping into an untapped pool.

Your "pure" supporter base isn't large enough to support an NRL club.

Either you are taking supporters (even "casual" supporters) from other clubs, or you aren't sustainable.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Your "pure" supporter base isn't large enough to support an NRL club.

Either you are taking supporters (even "casual" supporters) from other clubs, or you aren't sustainable.

The Shoremen/Bears brand was enough to support a club for 90+ years in top league football, since relocation and commencement of current bid it's growing within the Central Coast community on top of existing supporters. As much as we are aiming for new adult supporters, we are also embedding ourselves with the junior supporters too. Having junior clubs afilliated already, is key evidence of this. This isn't a very good angle that you're trying to throw up?

 

[Dogs Of War]

Nine and Fox already have a choice of 10 teams with which to maximise their ratings in NSW on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. Even if half those teams are going badly, there's still enough choice to come up with three matches that rate their socks off in NSW. But NSW is not where they need more choice to maximise ratings. It's in the next biggest Rugby League market that they need a larger choice of teams to televise. How is a Central Coast team going to help maximise ratings in Queensland on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday?

You only have to look at the ratings in Queensland for last Fridays match to understand that NSW teams do not rate that well into that market. Really need to have a draw which always has a Queensland team playing on a Friday night if possible. Another Queensland team will give the NRL that opportunity.