Building the next NZ team

[SpaceMonkey]

And a few 100 sheep

Nah, we got rid of most of the sheep, it’s all about cows these days

 

[blue bags]

Nah, we got rid of most of the sheep, it’s all about cows these days

And Bear's

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Wellington is a little larger than Canberra population wise?

Effective population of around half a million (in terms of people close enough to be active supporters). Christchurch is roughly the same.

 

[final say]

Building a NZ Bear's team

Given mr V’landys comments today, it could now be a prize to partner with the Bears to gain entry to the NRL..
Whoever the Bears choose probably get in. Perth Bears, South Island Bears, PNG Bears.
The South Island bid doesn't have a moniker... could it be?

 

[flippikat]

Given mr V’landys comments today, it could now be a prize to partner with the Bears to gain entry to the NRL..
Whoever the Bears choose probably get in. Perth Bears, South Island Bears, PNG Bears.
The South Island bid doesn't have a moniker... could it be?

Well, Christchurch loves it's red & black teams...

 

[Matiunz]

Effective population of around half a million (in terms of people close enough to be active supporters). Christchurch is roughly the same.

Could probably double that if you include neighbouring provinces in Wellingtons case

 

[Perth Red]

Could probably double that if you include neighbouring provinces in Wellingtons case

Bit of a furphy regional connections though. once you get more than an hour from the stadium the active fan interest level drops off dramatically.

 

[Matiunz]

Bit of a furphy regional connections though. once you get more than an hour from the stadium the active fan interest level drops off dramatically.

That’s true but there is a precedence with the way the super rugby franchises are set up to incorporate provinces- in this case Hurricanes Territory that would be a fairly easy model to copy

 

[Chins get the wins]

The Bears brand no longer appeals to anyone under 50.

It just doesn't have any value outside North Shore boomers

Incorrect as always from you

 

[The Great Dane]

Wellington is a little larger than Canberra population wise?

Effective population of around half a million (in terms of people close enough to be active supporters). Christchurch is roughly the same.

Wellington itself has about 220k, while the ACT (effectively Canberra) has just under 470k.

Add in the broader metro and surrounding regions and Wellington is about 440k give or take, while Canberra/Queanbeyan alone is closer to 500k. Add in other towns in the direct region and Canberra is probably closer to 520k give or take. It depends a lot on where you draw line, and that's extremely heavily debated on ACT/NSW border.

So it's actually the other way around and Canberra is a bit larger than Wellington. Canberra and surrounding regions are growing faster as well.

 

[final say]

Wellington itself has about 220k, while the ACT (effectively Canberra) has just under 470k.

Add in the broader metro and surrounding regions and Wellington is about 440k give or take, while Canberra/Queanbeyan alone is closer to 500k. Add in other towns in the direct region and Canberra is probably closer to 520k give or take. It depends a lot on where you draw line, and that's extremely heavily debated on ACT/NSW border.

So it's actually the other way around and Canberra is a bit larger than Wellington. Canberra and surrounding regions are growing faster as well.

Ahh ok, Wellington feels a lot more like a city than Canberra to me.
I guess we could assume that Wellington and Christchurch are both big enough to sustain teams especially when you consider Townsville has a team.
I was just looking up Cronulla too and found that area is only around 220k.

Could we say that the base population to sustain an NRL club starts at around 200k?

 

[Canard]

I guess we could assume that Wellington and Christchurch are both big enough to sustain teams especially when you consider Townsville has a team.

NQ only works because a)there is a decent enough surronding regional population to augment Townsville b) League has always been no1 in the region.

Even then, the Cowboys have gone bust previously.

 

[MugaB]

Bit of a furphy regional connections though. once you get more than an hour from the stadium the active fan interest level drops off dramatically.

Sounds like WA

 

[MugaB]

NQ only works because a)there is a decent enough surronding regional population to augment Townsville b) League has always been no1 in the region.

Even then, the Cowboys have gone bust previously.

Imagine how they're gunna go with the 18th team being based in neighbouring hotspot cairns, hey, hey, hey... lets go!!!

 

[Matiunz]

Wellington itself has about 220k, while the ACT (effectively Canberra) has just under 470k.

Add in the broader metro and surrounding regions and Wellington is about 440k give or take, while Canberra/Queanbeyan alone is closer to 500k. Add in other towns in the direct region and Canberra is probably closer to 520k give or take. It depends a lot on where you draw line, and that's extremely heavily debated on ACT/NSW border.

So it's actually the other way around and Canberra is a bit larger than Wellington. Canberra and surrounding regions are growing faster as well.

Wellingtons population is a bit misleading at 220k this doesn’t include the likes of the Hutt Valley/Porirua and surrounding suburbs which are for admin purposes classes as seperate cities however they are suburbs of Wellington in reality as there is no break in housing etc between them. It’s akin to judging Sydney’s population on the cbd and a few inner west suburbs rather than what’s counted in the 5m odd it’s like someone saying they don’t live in Sydney because they live in Parramatta

 

[final say]

Bit of a furphy regional connections though. once you get more than an hour from the stadium the active fan interest level drops off dramatically.

" active fan intrest " " drops off dramatically"?
Was there a survey or something that indicated as such?

 

[Bukowski]

Sounds like WA

There is about 2mill within an hour of HBF though

 

[Matua]

The Phoenix don't refute shit, and the NZ context is totally irrelevant when any NZ bid will need to be capable of being competitive with the standards of the Australian NRL market to make themselves an attractive prospect in the NRL. In other words they'll have to show themselves to have the potential to be a stronger market commercially than potential teams in places like Perth, Adelaide, a 4th team in Brisbane/SEQ, etc.

And you can keep repeating yourself, but outside of your little leech state Wellington's reputation as a sports market is that it's small potatoes with a fickle fanbase. Is what it is.

In ideal conditions Wellington would be comparable to the smallest of regional sides in Australia, but conditions won't be ideal. It's a competitive market where RL is unlikely to be the big ticket in town for the foreseeably future, and I think it's probably fair to suggest that an NRL side there would probably be most comparable to a team like the Brumbies; capable of pulling a crowd when things are going well, but the tough times are going to be really tough until RL grows and cements itself in the market.

The NZ context isn't irrelevant at all, this is a thread discussing the next NZ team, what is irrelevant is bringing up Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane/SEQ in this discussion.

I'm not a Wellington fan at all, I don't care if NZ2 goes to Chch or Wellington, but they're both similar so every negative you put on Wellington can be repeated for Chch aside from the fact they have an awesome rugby team (which will have no involvement with the the league team).

 

[Perth Red]

Ahh ok, Wellington feels a lot more like a city than Canberra to me.
I guess we could assume that Wellington and Christchurch are both big enough to sustain teams especially when you consider Townsville has a team.
I was just looking up Cronulla too and found that area is only around 220k.

Could we say that the base population to sustain an NRL club starts at around 200k?

bit simplisitc tbh. Cowboys have struggled in past to be sustainable and also relied on pokies to cover their losses. Also RL in Townsville is the #1 sport where as it isnt in Wellington, lastly Cowboys have an amazing corporate portfolio (probably due to being the only major sports club in NQ) which again Wellington may struggle to match.

Id say min size for a non RL city to make NRLs club viable is at least 500k with some decent business interests based there. Again bit simplistic as the reality isnt population size but can you get 15k paying attendee avg, 20-30k members, $1.5mill + merch sales and $7mill + corporate and sponsorship sales. If you can then you'll be sustainable in the NRL in this day and age regardless of population.

 

[Perth Red]

" active fan intrest " " drops off dramatically"?
Was there a survey or something that indicated as such?

Its not rocket scientist! How many fans do you think travel more than 60mins to a stadium every game?