Crowd Watch 2011

[Jono1987]

19.3k/21-22k not good enough for you BDGS?

700 more people would have appeased you though?

Have you actually considered the reasons why people might not want to attend a suburban ground?

My guess is no, you just want to rant because Dragons fans irk you.

Why don't you go and investigate why such a big Sydney club - The Bulldogs, don't have more members? Uncle Toddie would love to know.

 

[dangerousdave]

Have you actually considered the reasons why people might not want to attend a suburban ground?

Spot on. When the Dogs were at Belmore they averaged one of the lowest crowds in Sydney.

Can hardly call selling out to telstra a rational justification of why dogs supporter base is so good

 

[ouwet]

Bulldogs are expecting over 42,000 next friday night... Look at the intro for the official website, looks awesome! www.bulldogs.com.au

The Bulldogs choose to move out of suburban grounds guys! St Merge and everyother Sydney team can do the same!! Reality is it's holding crowds down!

 

[Western_Eel]

Bulldogs are expecting over 42,000 next friday night... Look at the intro for the official website, looks awesome! www.bulldogs.com.au

The Bulldogs choose to move out of suburban grounds guys! St Merge and everyother Sydney team can do the same!! Reality is it's holding crowds down!

Just remember that most of the fans at that game will be dragon supporters

 

[ouwet]

Just remember that most of the fans at that game will be dragon supporters

:lol::lol: This coming from an Eels supporter... Blue n Gold 'Army' has been missing since 1986

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

Bulldogs are expecting over 42,000 next friday night... Look at the intro for the official website, looks awesome! www.bulldogs.com.au

The Bulldogs choose to move out of suburban grounds guys! St Merge and everyother Sydney team can do the same!! Reality is it's holding crowds down!

That's right. They can. The thing about choice is that you can also choose to pursue a different strategy.

 

[ouwet]

That's right. They can. The thing about choice is that you can also choose to pursue a different strategy.

What strategy? Holding the game back?

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

What strategy? Holding the game back?

Yawn. One size fits all is hardly a winning strategy. Good on the Bulldogs for going to ANZ Stadium. That works for them.

It clearly doesnt' work for Saints and several (at least three) attempts over the yeras to pursue a big stadium strategy have failed (or do we conveniently forget those). St George Illawarra supporters like to watch games in St George and Wollongong. This isn't rocket science. Kogarah Oval now has the best corporate facilities of any suburban stadium in the country. This would never have happened if we'd gone for a big stadium strategy.

Have you ever noticed that the London English Premier League teams don't all play out of Wembley. They don't share Emirates or Old Trafford. Many PL grounds are less than 30k in capacity. You don't need 80k stadiums to be highly succesful clubs. As clubs like Saints pursue opportunities to turn their boutique stadiums into highly modern facilities you will see this stategy work for these clubs. It may well cap their crowds at some stage, but this is hardly "holding the game back", particularly when there will be opportunities for those 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80k crowds at away games and for finals. And crowds are just one part of the puzzle.

Look at the financial statements for football clubs. Ticketing revenue is usually something like 25-33% of revenue. The big money is in sponsorship, corporates and the NRL grant. These revenue lines are driven by brand power, television penetration and casual supporters, not crowd numbers.

 

[cleary89]

lol at anyone who chooses not to move to homebush is holding back the game.

 

[adamkungl]

I would be disappointed to see any teams move to 'central stadiums'. It just doesn't work for most due to Sydney's layout. The best strategy is to play the occasionally blockbuster at the SCG/SFS/ANZ.

The obsession on immediately raising crowds by massive, unrealistic amounts on LU is bordering on insane.

 

[Raiderdave]

Yawn. One size fits all is hardly a winning strategy. Good on the Bulldogs for going to ANZ Stadium. That works for them.

It clearly doesnt' work for Saints and several (at least three) attempts over the yeras to pursue a big stadium strategy have failed (or do we conveniently forget those). St George Illawarra supporters like to watch games in St George and Wollongong. This isn't rocket science. Kogarah Oval now has the best corporate facilities of any suburban stadium in the country. This would never have happened if we'd gone for a big stadium strategy.

Have you ever noticed that the London English Premier League teams don't all play out of Wembley. They don't share Emirates or Old Trafford. Many PL grounds are less than 30k in capacity. You don't need 80k stadiums to be highly succesful clubs. As clubs like Saints pursue opportunities to turn their boutique stadiums into highly modern facilities you will see this stategy work for these clubs. It may well cap their crowds at some stage, but this is hardly "holding the game back", particularly when there will be opportunities for those 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80k crowds at away games and for finals. And crowds are just one part of the puzzle.

Look at the financial statements for football clubs. Ticketing revenue is usually something like 25-33% of revenue. The big money is in sponsorship, corporates and the NRL grant. These revenue lines are driven by brand power, television penetration and casual supporters, not crowd numbers.

there is a place for the smaller suburban ground for some clubs in Sydney .. this can't be denied
the Dragons game V the Cowboys being a perfect example
Kogarah is a perfect size for this ... they'll get 17 or 18K there , they'd get no more at the SFS

but its the Dragons steadfast refusal to move bigger marque games against big cross town rivals to more " appropriate" venues that is frustrating
they only moved the Bulldogs clash to the SCG because they had to &
if Wollongong had been available .. they'd of played it there .. thats their mentallity
its Ludicrous
do the Dragons need to move to a Bigger stadium full time ... no
do they need to do what the Tigers do ... yes
that is have a traditional ground in each of the merger's areas ... Kogarah in Sydney & WIN in Wollongong... & a 3rd venue ( SFS/ SCG) for monster clashes & where they can really wine & dine their corporates
( which you've already indicated is a big part of a clubs revenue )

their balance unlike the Tigers ... is not quite right.

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

I think you missed the point that Saints can more than adequately cater for our corporate sponors and guests at our current homes.

Campbelltown and Leichhardt have limited corporate facilities. This is not the case at WIN Stadium or WIN Jubilee Oval.

Saints have a four tiered corporate room offering (Chairmans Club, Corporate Club, Captains Lounge, Legends Club) and a two tiered private corporate offering (Private Suites and Outdoor Boxes) which is very similar to what the big stadiums can offer and far exceeds anything offered by other suburban grounds in Sydney. Indeed this week at Kogarah Saints are launching its latest corporate package at Kogarah (Captains Lounge) and there will be a new offering later this year in Wollongong (Outdoor Boxes).

I don't think people get the fact that you need to commit to the boutique grounds to be able to obtain the level of services that customers expect. The government would find it much more difficult spend the kind of money that they have for Saints grounds if it was only a 4 game a year proposition.

We move one game every two years. We're not completely against it. We're just more interested in achieving what the club was set up to do, foster the game of rugby league in St George and the Illawarra.

 

[Dragon Dave]

What next? As crowds continue to grow, teams should use the MCG as a home ground?

The growing number of Dragons corporate partners and members LOVE that we play at home. That's good enough for me.

If the Dragons moved to ANZ, I would immediately end my membership, as would thousands of others.

 

[Raiderdave]

I think you missed the point that Saints can more than adequately cater for our corporate sponors and guests at our current homes.

Campbelltown and Leichhardt have limited corporate facilities. This is not the case at WIN Stadium or WIN Jubilee Oval.

Saints have a four tiered corporate room offering (Chairmans Club, Corporate Club, Captains Lounge, Legends Club) and a two tiered private corporate offering (Private Suites and Outdoor Boxes) which is very similar to what the big stadiums can offer and far exceeds anything offered by other suburban grounds in Sydney. Indeed this week at Kogarah Saints are launching its latest corporate package at Kogarah (Captains Lounge) and there will be a new offering later this year in Wollongong (Outdoor Boxes).

I don't think people get the fact that you need to commit to the boutique grounds to be able to obtain the level of services that customers expect. The government would find it much more difficult spend the kind of money that they have for Saints grounds if it was only a 4 game a year proposition.

We move one game every two years. We're not completely against it. We're just more interested in achieving what the club was set up to do, foster the game of rugby league in St George and the Illawarra.

theres still limits to what the Dragons can achieve at both of their suburban grounds ... both in terms of support at the gate .. & corporate backing
Like I said ... theres a place for them even in 2011 for certain games
but the growth of the Dragons brand will always be limited if they refuse to move obvious blockbusters to a more appropriate venue
I mean the kids .. your jnr players who get a pass to NRL games in their district ... the Dragons won't honour these in games where theres a sellout ... like there will be in a few weeks against the Tigers
so you're disadvantaging your own future fans ... & continuing the Sydney culture of not attending games
the NRL has put a stop to this blinkered mentallity where finals are concerned .. & good on em too
and by moving 3 or 4 games a year to say Moore Park .. you are still fostering RL in your 2 districts .. by keeping 8 or 9 there.

 

[Raiderdave]

What next? As crowds continue to grow, teams should use the MCG as a home ground?

The growing number of Dragons corporate partners and members LOVE that we play at home. That's good enough for me.

If the Dragons moved to ANZ, I would immediately end my membership, as would thousands of others.

who said ANZ

who said all games .........?:?

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

theres still limits to what the Dragons can achieve at both of their suburban grounds ... both in terms of support at the gate .. & corporate backing

There are limits to what we could do at Wembley Stadium. Limits by themselves are not the issue. Coming up against limits and how you resolve them are.

Like I said ... theres a place for them even in 2011 for certain games but the growth of the Dragons brand will always be limited if they refuse to move obvious blockbusters to a more appropriate venue

What can be a more appropriate venue for the ST GEORGE ILLAWARRA DRAGONS than a stadium in ST GEORGE or the ILLAWARRA?

The thing we can be sure of is that we will limit the growth of WIN Jubilee Oval by moving every capacity crowd down the road.

Don't forget of course that we did indeed move games in the eighties and noughties (2000-2002 and 2008). None of those moves did anything for the growth of the brand or crowd sizes. Indeed they were all entirely detrimental.

I mean the kids .. your jnr players who get a pass to NRL games in their district ... the Dragons won't honour these in games where theres a sellout ... like there will be in a few weeks against the Tigers

so you're disadvantaging your own future fans ... & continuing the Sydney culture of not attending games

Do it for the Masons!

Is this even a serious argument? I've got nothing against giving kids free passes but it's not serious to expect that free passes should be available for use at each and every game. Do we really think that a meaningful number of people who won't pay for a child's ticket will bother to go all the way to Moore Park or Homebush to take advantage of a free ticket?

the NRL has put a stop to this blinkered mentallity where finals are concerned .. & good on em too

While I'm a little sad that Kogarah will never host a final again, I'm fully supportive of the change to all major stadium games for finals series.

Having said that I thought the pressue put on Saints to move games when they had qualified to host them was nothing but bullshit.

Also, some people are going to look kind of stupid when their prediction of 40k attendences for first week final games don't eventuate.

and by moving 3 or 4 games a year to say Moore Park .. you are still fostering RL in your 2 districts .. by keeping 8 or 9 there.

So St George, one of the greatest football districts in the history of the game, should feel sufficiently supported and fostered with 4 games a year? Tokenism. The only people who want this are outsiders.

Nobody, and I mean almost literally nobody, in the St George district wants to give up games for the sake of Canberra and Bulldogs fans thinking it's good for our club.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Again the Dogs continue to lead the way with inventive methods to promote their home games. Well done Greenburg, heres hoping they achieve the 42k goal.

 

[Saint Doc]

There is a good reason the dragons have the 2nd biggest membership and the BIGGEST ticketed membership in the game. It's because of our home ground strategy.

If we moved big games to SFS/ANZ:
- we wouldn't have as many members
- we wouldn't have as big crowds for non blockbuster games
- we wouldnt have as much local business sponsorship
- we wouldn't have as big of a home ground advantage, meaning less wins and less success, less $$
- we wouldn't have the same support from leagues clubs
- we wouldn't have received federal, state and government funding to upgrade our grounds

People on this forum who think average crowds are the be all and end all know nothing about business, nothing about our club and nothing about why we are unique.

We contribute to big crowds with away support. We're not moving just so we get 27k instead of 22k.

If youre a bulldogs or eels or tigers or souths fan, and want to ensure you get let in to our fortress grounds, I suggest you become a red V member! You won't regret it!

 

[yobbo84]

There is a good reason the dragons have the 2nd biggest membership and the BIGGEST ticketed membership in the game. It's because of our home ground strategy.

I'd say winning the premiership would have something to do with it...

 

[dangerousdave]

With league expansion on in 2013 Kogarah and WIN will prove more appropriate venues. There is a good chance we wont even get a home fixture against atleast a couple of the Sydney clubs.

5-5-2 between WIN, Kogarah and the SFS would be a good split. Play the home games against Easts + Canterbury/Souths at the bigger venue. Will have to suck up the limited capacity V Parra and Wests.

The suburban grounds are great for fixtures v NQL, Canberra, Newcastle, Melbourne, Penrith, Cronulla, Manly, Brisbane, Gold Coast and New Zealand (and for that matter Central Coast and Perth/Brisbane 2)