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DT: Tim Smith leaves dark place for comeback

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
But despite all that, maybe Tim Smith just is/was a dickhead, too?

You're not the only one speaking from experience on these things Baz... there's more than one possible opinion on Tim's actions, even accounting for his diagnosis.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
101,014
And what did he really do that was so bad? He fought his condition, he struggled with it, and like many of us he turned to an easy out in alcohol. He never hurt anyone, he never assaulted or molested anyone like (allegedly) several high profile players who haven't copped half of what he did. All he did was drink too much and act like a fool. Nothing I haven't done, nothing most of the people I know with these conditions hasn't done...the effect of alcohol on someone who suffers these conditions is that it almost induces a "high", albeit not quite the same, and yes you can do stupid things. Was it a smart decision? No, but he clearly wasn't thinking with his head but rather his emotions. It only makes him a dickhead to the people who don't understand, or who refuse to understand. Simple as that for mine

I mean, has anyone ever actually stopped to consider the number of people with these conditions who commit suicide? Would they be calling him a dickhead had he gone down that path instead of the self-medicating path? All it takes is one bad "low"
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
He's not a "bad ass", that's for sure. And he copped more media attention than some, but he didn't help himself at all there.

My point is simply that not everyone who has bi-polar, depression or anxiety chooses to or needs to "act out" - the condition is not an excuse for not thinking about the effect you have on others or yourself, or not facing up to your responsibilities. Hence the possibility that he was just a dickhead, rather than choosing to define him purely by his condition?

Everyone makes mistakes, regardless of their medical conditions. Tim made his, but the condition seems to get portrayed as an excuse, rather than the simple fact that failing to be responsible for his behaviours cost him his career.

You're right on the suicide rates front, so in that sense I guess that regardless of our opinion on Tim's footy potential, we can all be glad that Tim did break the conditions the club had imposed on him for his own (and the club's) good and brought things to a head in that way, rather than the sadder alternative.
 

bartman

Immortal
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41,022
I should add here that I respect your opinion Baz, it's just that I have reason and (different) experiences to hold a different one.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
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101,014
I don't think anyone had ever used his condition as an excuse, least of all Tim who eventually realised what was happening and tried to sort it out...it's simply an explanation for his behaviour. Some people (Todd Carney or Greg Bird, for example), are plain and simple dickheads. Tim Smith was acting in a way that, because of his condition, he thought was the best way to act at the time and then certain adverse situations arose from those actions (in this case, his drinking). He was wrong, sure, but all I'm saying is that his reasons were sound given his state of mind, and that's what no one can seem to accept.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
Problem is, neither of you are gonna change your opinion because of the other persons opinion. So this conversation is pointless as you have made up your minds. But please, carry on.
 

benoir91

Juniors
Messages
1,584
Nothing quoted in the article implies that Tim is even looking at the Eels... and Osborne has categorically denied that Tim is a prospect for 2010.

It's all just paper talk.

Also, on the back page of the paper itself there is more on Tim Smith including quotes on him wanting to return to Parra, not sure why it isnt on the DT website, he says "Parramatta is a great club and I would love to go back if they would have me"

Since Osborne denied they were after him a lot has changed, there are no other halves on the market, Robson is apparently all but gone to the UK and Tim has revealed he will play for 50k even if it is for Wenty.

You never know, and in the end it comes down to DA, and from what I hear he is fery fond of Smith.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Also, on the back page of the paper itself there is more on Tim Smith including quotes on him wanting to return to Parra, not sure why it isnt on the DT website, he says "Parramatta is a great club and I would love to go back if they would have me"
Fair enough... I never buy it, so just go off what is posted online in these forums.

Since Osborne denied they were after him a lot has changed, there are no other halves on the market, Robson is apparently all but gone to the UK and Tim has revealed he will play for 50k even if it is for Wenty.
We just signed that Tom Humble halfback kid... so I'm guessing we're covered adequately.

You never know, and in the end it comes down to DA, and from what I hear he is fery fond of Smith.
DA coached in England last year, and saw first hand Tim Smith's playing abilities... if he was keen he would have made a play for Tim by now, and we wouldn't be seeing pleading articles like this with Tim begging for a start anywhere.

I wish the guy the best, but given the massive expectation some here have of him and his old abilities, plus the fishbowl existence and his demons at Parramatta, the Eels would be the worst place for him. He should try somewhere out of Sydney to start with, and take it from there if he's good enough.
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
Also, on the back page of the paper itself there is more on Tim Smith including quotes on him wanting to return to Parra, not sure why it isnt on the DT website, he says "Parramatta is a great club and I would love to go back if they would have me"

Since Osborne denied they were after him a lot has changed, there are no other halves on the market, Robson is apparently all but gone to the UK and Tim has revealed he will play for 50k even if it is for Wenty.

You never know, and in the end it comes down to DA, and from what I hear he is very fond of Smith.

And this attitude of Tim, doing it ALL off his own back is now winning over PO as it has already done with DA. Welcome back Tim (if everything works out as intended). You have a lot of unfinished business at the Eels.

Boooooooooo Casper
icon7.gif
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Is doing it off his own back only because no manager will touch him?

His only unfinished business in my opinion is to pay the club back his "sick pay" covering the period when he then went and joined Wigan, and effectively earned double pay...

People are so hard on Jamie Lyon all these years later, but whose to say that Jamie wasn't suffering a similar/related condition when he went to Wee Waa? Just didn't want his families personal business splashed all over the papers? At least Jamie respected his contract, and never double dipped like Tim did...
 
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Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
He's not a "bad ass", that's for sure. And he copped more media attention than some, but he didn't help himself at all there.

My point is simply that not everyone who has bi-polar, depression or anxiety chooses to or needs to "act out" - the condition is not an excuse for not thinking about the effect you have on others or yourself, or not facing up to your responsibilities. Hence the possibility that he was just a dickhead, rather than choosing to define him purely by his condition?

Everyone makes mistakes, regardless of their medical conditions. Tim made his, but the condition seems to get portrayed as an excuse, rather than the simple fact that failing to be responsible for his behaviours cost him his career.

You're right on the suicide rates front, so in that sense I guess that regardless of our opinion on Tim's footy potential, we can all be glad that Tim did break the conditions the club had imposed on him for his own (and the club's) good and brought things to a head in that way, rather than the sadder alternative.

We (MAN) are all unique, not one the same as the next. There is no mould that fashions ALL souls but many believe there is as can be witnessed by their belief systems/points of view. This is the basis of creating a HERD mentality which has led to all the suffering of MAN, past, present and future.

Tyranny, Totalitarianism, Dictatorships, Authoritarianism, Despotism, Stalinism, Absolutism, etc are examples of this terrible sickness of MANS brain. If you don't fit in..... YOUR OUT.

We should be honouring the uniqueness of MAN instead of trying to get men like Tim Smith to fit into the herd so that he can be ostracised, ridiculed, etc, while protecting the HERDS existence.

One thing is to use shame to help another deal with the harm they have caused and another is protecting the HERD at all cost by judging and ridiculing others who don't fit in.

I'd rather the shame than the existence of any HERD.

"Cast Not The First Stone"

Creating a "MAN" is more important than anything else because a MAN is conscious of Doing No Harm and lives by the virtues of love. Without MAN we have a world of hu-mans lost to love (a hu-man is a colour of MAN, a fallen MAN, a man unconscious of consciousness, --- hu ---- of air, of nothingness, of no substance of MAN, a hu-man is lost to love).

Boooooooooooo Casper
icon7.gif


Virtues of love: nurture, care, support, encourage, inspire, empower, share, respect, give, create, guide, truth, honour, tolerance, acceptance, etc, etc. If we all put our energy/power of creation into these virtues of love how quickly we can transform everything going wrong in MANS world today. We don't need HERDS, we just need MAN loving/serving MAN.
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,599
I am one big tim smith fan but after watching last night's match. We really don't need him.

MOrtz is going great guns and KK will cover more than adequately for Robson.

Hayne's kicking and throwing the long ball has half of Smith's talent covered and then we have Mateo.


The only thing that we are really missing is the SHORT kicking game but I think Mortz will improve on that.

Therefore, we will only be needing Smith for his short kicking game but that is negated by his poor defense


As much as I like Tim, I am sorry
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
We should be honouring the uniqueness of MAN instead of trying to get men like Tim Smith to fit into the herd so that he can be ostracised, ridiculed, etc, while protecting the HERDS existence.

One thing is to use shame to help another deal with the harm they have caused and another is protecting the HERD at all cost by judging and ridiculing others who don't fit in.
Nah, it's just about whether Tim Smith should be in our top 25 squad for next year really. Not a herd, a straight out business decision.

My opinion is that on merit he shouldn't be, and that the squad we have doesn't actually need him. He wouldn't add as much as say Robson (defence) can add to what we as a club and business need.

As I've said, I wish the man all the luck in the world, but elsewhere, reviving his playing career for an out-of-town club (or one near his family in SE Queensland for support), and away from the pressure, the massive expectations, and the fishbowl that didn't help the man in the first place.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,327
the most important thing about the article is that he appears to be in a good place atm and he's getting on with his life the best way he can, for 50K he'd be an ok buy and I'd be open minded if he wasn't costing us a position that we seriously need depth in and that's backrow.

anyone who thinks that we'll get as much out of him as we did with Robo for the same price or less is seriously dillusional, Robo is a better option but a bigger contract beckons for him in the UK and well deserved also.

I think you've absolutely nailed it Staggers. But I'll go one better - I think Jeff Robson is a better player than Tim Smith. Simple as that.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,327
yep. cause that is the most important trait to have as a halfback. kicking and passing game, vision, pfft. it's all about racking up 30+ tackles

Jeff Robson made four absolutely top-shelf kicks in the first half last night. His vision is improving; his passing game is improving; he seldom makes a mistake (except with his kicking - but that, as I say, is improving); AND he is a superb defender. His confidence has improved and his ability to steer the side around has improved too. Tim Smith - whether he's got Bi-Polar or Alcoholism or Foot and Mouth Disease - isn't in the same class as Robson!
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,327
It is tough to deal with bipolar disorder. I myself have been fighting for quite sometime with mood swing. One of the major part of the mood swing is depression. The problem becomes traumatic when you as a patient try to explain anybody. If you do not find anyone to talk to you end up taking refuge in alcohol. Alcohol actually calms down the black dog. No amount of success can get you out of depression. There is no solution to bipoar. You just have to deal with it. It affects with what you do time to time. My experience with mood swing has disaster affect in my job and day to day activity. Sometime the depression is so severe that you pretty much loose control over your surrounding. You get total detachment to the surrounding.
I felt sorry when he left EELs. I was never angry with him. Some people in this forum said, he should join other club. I will always take him, not because he will be fantastic player but simply because he is a another human who faces a problem and need help.
I am with you Timmy, wherever you are , I hope you are doing well. I would like him to come to EELS as No7 ....That is my opinion.

Yeah, Carpe, that is well said. But I just don't like Tim Smith as a player. I reckon he's the most over-rated half-back Parramatta has ever had. And we can't just have him back because we want to support him in his recovery. Parramatta is a Rugby League team, not a recovery support organisation.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,327
i still fail to see what Tim ever did wrong?!?
His 'scandals' were a joke... he was crucified harder by the media for having a drink whilst inglis and stewart face court...

Tim Smith was cleared in wrong doing of events so i wish people would realise he never did a thing wrong... he just had personal problems!!

Tim is a good bloke....

If Tim came back to the eels for 55K he would be a walk up start for the number 7...
a shoe in! Keating could be on the bench...

Imagine the kicking game of Tim and Morts?
Morts can be the runner and tim the sublime passer....

We would be a stronger team on the field with him...


But for Tims sake i dont think the eels would be a good choice...

I am pretty sure he will be a Rooster or Shark

And who the f**k would do all the tackling? And Tim can't run either, so there'd be so much pressure on Mortimer.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,327
His defence is not as bad as it has been made out, he is actually one of the better defending halfback when you think of guys like Thurston, Kimmorley and Prince. Outside of Wallace, Mullen and Robson I think he would be the next best in defence tbh.

There's only one thing to say to that Caylo...................you're wrong.
 

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