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F.O Andrew Webster

Messages
794
Yeah, I don't see this in Webby.

And I believe in that guy. He's a learner, he'll get better. I just think he needs better support. I don't know Agar, but I just feel like Webster could do with a really high quality assistant who knows the NRL like the back of his hand. Stacey should, but I really don't know if he's the guy.
Yea man totally agree, I posted something similar earlier as well; ideally someone with former head coach experience themselves.

Looking at the current 8, all of them either have very experienced head coaches already at the helm i.e. Bellamy, Cleary, Robinson and Flannagan, or seasoned assistants on staff. Ciraldo and Fitzgibbon have former heads Taylor and Price alongside them, while Seibold and Payten have Dymock and Morgan.

Its certainly no silver bullet, but its gotta be worth at least considering.
 
Messages
17,768
I'm starting to doubt coaching ability.
We have guys over chasing and creating holes in defense.
We have guys going up, some holding and others sliding in the same motion. The defense is a mess.

In attack, we can't reset after failed shape move and just stay flat, we can't maintain pressure. We couldnt pull players out of defensive line. Angle running was generally poor and flat. Did we score any points from a scrum play this year?

Man management and motivation may be ok, but I'm not sure on coaching and making players better.
 

nswarrior

Juniors
Messages
1,321
My biggest complain with Webby has been his bench use and player selection. I know it was Tevagas last home game but he isn’t a big minute player - he is an effort and impact player off the bench. He gets tired and makes mistakes.

I know Helesima is young but surely he deserved a bit more game time this year to prepare him for next season.

Webby bought RTS, CHT and Capewell this year. Unfortunately RTS has lost a lot of pace, not sure CHT is 1st grade.

We are lacking so much pace across the backline and in the 2nd row.
 

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,968
Was last season a fluke?
I dont believe you can fluke your way to the top 4 in the NRL. The competition is too tough.
I think last season was a perfect storm for the Warriors though. They were completely under the radar for a large part of the season and 6 or 7 players had peak seasons all at the same time - they basically ambushed the NRL comp.

This year we have definitely regressed back to the mean in terms of competitiveness, other teams'game plan preparation against us is much better - and a poor injury season has cost us about 6-8 points just on its own (kicking woes baked in here)

There will be a massive review this offseason. Webster wont be immune from getting the chop next year( the love only lasts so long with the ownership if your team is shit for 2 seasons in a row), if he doesnt show some signs of righting the ship. I actually think so far he is not going about it the right way which is concerning.

The season was gone 3 games ago but the retirement of SJ has actually hurt the team long term as this was a perfect opportunity to blood more players from our NSW cup team so they can get a taste of NRL for next season.
Instead he has tried to win games that had no bearing on the season anymore all for the SJ Farewell tour....

A bunch of players should have been shut down for the season (DWZ, Montoya, Egan, Capewell, CHT, AFB - not all at the same time obviously) so we could see what we have got. I would love to see Halasima back in the team at his correct position. Would like to see these wingers that have speed. Love to see Roache again. Zyon. This farewell tour is negatively impacting all the work McFadden has been trying to do to get the Warriors to a new consistently competitive level.

Huge few months ahead coming for Webster which might define his time with the Warriors.
 
Messages
10,074
My biggest complain with Webby has been his bench use and player selection. I know it was Tevagas last home game but he isn’t a big minute player - he is an effort and impact player off the bench. He gets tired and makes mistakes.

I know Helesima is young but surely he deserved a bit more game time this year to prepare him for next season.

Webby bought RTS, CHT and Capewell this year. Unfortunately RTS has lost a lot of pace, not sure CHT is 1st grade.

We are lacking so much pace across the backline and in the 2nd row.
Lussick and CHT on the bench last night was a bizarre selection, if CHT was outside back cover could maybe understand it but a hooker and half is a luxury on the bench that wasn’t required when you look at how hard the middle was stretched
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Lussick and CHT on the bench last night was a bizarre selection, if CHT was outside back cover could maybe understand it but a hooker and half is a luxury on the bench that wasn’t required when you look at how hard the middle was stretched

it’s a ‘luxury’ given his bench strategy. No need for 3 forwards when you don’t intend to use them.

I was disappointed Ale dropped out as it was a sign of the direction we were going
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,601
Shame we lost Gould tbh, so few people around like that. Webster is obviously staying, so I agree the coaching team needs changes and the obsession with Kiwis needs to end, just get the best coaches. I’m not sure who’s around, where are the likes of Brennan, Cartwright these days? Hoss seems happy as 2IC and is quality. There are presumably others in the better systems…. Look at people like the Johns brothers, Cronk, or even Sterling for consultancy with the halves… I’m throwing names around, but on and off field we need the right people with the right skill sets, and to understand that building a system like Penrith or Melbourne (which are very different) takes time
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,760
Shame we lost Gould tbh, so few people around like that. Webster is obviously staying, so I agree the coaching team needs changes and the obsession with Kiwis needs to end, just get the best coaches. I’m not sure who’s around, where are the likes of Brennan, Cartwright these days? Hoss seems happy as 2IC and is quality. There are presumably others in the better systems…. Look at people like the Johns brothers, Cronk, or even Sterling for consultancy with the halves… I’m throwing names around, but on and off field we need the right people with the right skill sets, and to understand that building a system like Penrith or Melbourne (which are very different) takes time
Who?
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
I just want to reiterate that this club has been woeful in their treatment of coaches and Webster is much better than we deserve.
 

Alan Johnson

Juniors
Messages
1,869
Lots of good analysis in this thread in and on this page you can read from @Penrose Warrior @Manu Vatuvei and @Izz a collection of ideas that basically cover all of the big picture stuff.

The way i read it between those three posters differing points of view is that the probable truth is they are all correct by degree.
To be Frank none of us have a freaking clue what is wrong with the team in any given season because none of have a grasp or an insight into the pre game week.

Often times there are things happening at training and off field that see people like Webster forced to pick unpopular selections which often are not the guys the fans see performing best in games.

No better example of this currently exists than AFB. A guy who we only see on the field who we see for eighty minutes and looks like the perfect Warrior.

Were it not for the leaks from the club and or the forced stand down ban for him this season, none of us would have had a freaking clue that AFB is a massive problem off field and demanding the coach not pick him.

Imagine if we knew nothing about AFB this year and Webster dropped him. Webster would have been crucified in here (hey he gets nailed to a cross all the time anyway thanks to sack the coach threads) but imagine that scenario if you will with some fairness.

This also applies to Johnson being played injured. I have followed that situation closely for the last two seasons and I think Webster gets unfair press there too. We are now seeing that this idea fans have where he should not play injured means his career ends mid last season, because he has been carrying the injuries all that time.

So the argument against Webster about playing an injured SJ is a nonsense from my Pov because if you apply that standard he does not finish last season where he was carrying an injury which meant he stopped kicking goals for the chunk of that year. Be fair guys and note that he is a one year contract player precisely because of chronic injury and age and that this makes not picking him injured a complete nonsense in a team that desperately needs a kicker for field position. All those things considered carefully would see any NRL coach try to carry him through as many games as possible for that long kick which starts our defensive sets off a fast Rocco Berry kick chase and pin deep in their half, this is like the foundation of a Clubs whole season we are talking about....like Ivans reliance on a kick to Manu to make the finals.

Extrapolate that to Tohu Harris who was the Anchor of the Warriors last year as in the Simon Mannering role, despite being played injured all season. For which Webster was pilloried this year when Harris could no longer adequately play through the chronic Knee.

If Webster followed the fan critics we would have had no Tohu and SJ last year and I would wager that would mean no finals appearance.

Reynolds and other critical older players run around injured in many seasons, legends of the games have done it as long as League has been played.

I know I bang on about the SJ stuff but the reason he keeps being picked is that without him kicking long our entire winning game plan goes out the window, can you really blame Webster for trying to nurse him through that and keep him out there for his boot?

I cannot.

But the main reason I made this argument is that when it comes to week to week selections of the Warriors I used to berate coaches for not going for my obvious picks based off the games I am watching. Over time I realized that I have no idea what happened after the player i like put in a great game, same dude could well have smoked his own pipe and been late to training or been a negative influence in camp, or had some mental health situation related to instant media attention and maybe not sleeping, maybe stressing about doing it again the following week.

The other mind cluck of coaching is that you have this plan which is dependent on multiple moving parts in a really complex organism that is a team structure, and you have this nebullus idea that is called the dressing room and this job security problem that is the board of your club, the owner, CEO and others which basically measure performance not by metrics like improvements in specific areas and they have zero idea about building blocks for long term success, rather they dangle the hang mans noose over you for short term and immediate ladder results, which is stupid. We have just watched the Olympics, a format that is well used to selecting people who they know would be doing well to make the top ten their first Olympics because unlike the NRL system they do not sack people who do not medal after four years prep rather they think in eight and twelve year cycles.

The Olympics pick people knowing they will fail if finals are the measure, nations, all nations, all their sports scientists and experts, all their sports funding, choose to expose young hopefuls knowing they will get nowhere near the medals, because they understand that is how you end up with medalists.

NRL fans are the opposite they demand coaches are sacked regularly off one year of not making top eight. One thing Olympic countries would never do is pressure or criticize a coach that had a top four finish with an athlete, that coach would be locked in as a medal winner in waiting.

Webster last year turned around the Titanic, he introduced hardiness, a defensive mentality, a fighting spirit to this team.

That alone should have been enough to sell fans on his worth, ok so we are the uber fans the jaded long term experts in inverted commas who are above the one swallow does not make a summer group. But what Webster did sold out stadiums and set records.

The dude demands respect as a coach on that alone.

While we quibble about names on a team sheet the Warriors are experiencing a revolution. To my way of thinking despite Webster making mistakes here and there the Warrior world should be all in on this guy because he has changed filled Mt Smart with his coaching, for mine the only metric that predicts success for an NRL club.
I would just like to commend you for writing the longest forum post I have ever seen.
 
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Messages
17,768
I just want to reiterate that this club has been woeful in their treatment of coaches and Webster is much better than we deserve.
I just want to reiterate that this club has been woeful in their treatment of coaches and Webster is much better than we deserve.
Agree we have treated coaches terribly.
Webster deserves to see out the current contract and should not be sacked.
But I am struggling to think of a single player who is better this year than last.
Maybe it's just the injuries, so no one got a full season to improve. Maybe it's recency bias, Berry may be improved but haven't seen him for multiple rounds.
The spine all went backwards.

There are multiple parts to being a head coach and Im sure as shit simplifying it here.
The part standing out for me is a coach that can actually coach players to get better and improve on their strengths and weakness.
We improved the squad talent apparently and got worse.
I'm struggling to think a player who improved. Berry maybe. The spine all went backwards. RTS dialled it in as centre. Capewell defensively was terrible at times and offered little on attack.

Yes there is bench management, team selection, game tactics, media, head office, recruitment and more. But you need to be able to improve players.
 
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