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Forward thinking: Dragons after hard-hitting prop Napa

possm

Coach
Messages
15,643
Not nessecarily. The 'not in the spirits...' thing, by all reports, came from the fact that the the actual offer was less than he was originally promised. It then becomes about principle (backed up by the reoorts that other offers were no that much bigger), and TBH after that sort of treatment he owes the club nothing. If we dont want to increase the per-year money, we need to look at other incentives to keep him. Maybe an extra year on the deal. Indicate to him that he is next in line for captaincy. Maybe incentives for continuing to make rep teams.

However, the biggest incentive that we DONT have (which is where my original point comes from) is a coach that can take his game up a level and give him the chance to play finals footy, even contest for a premiership. We cant offer him (or anyone) that, and if we could then its a big bonus for us.


I agree with all you have said. In addition to this, I believe there are two other considerations:

· The reported cool relationship between Merrin and Mary.
· The inability of the Dragons to offer TPA money at the level offered by the Panthers and the Broncos.
 

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
Which makes it about the money Benny. Which I don't have a problem with btw. I've always maintained that these blokes are entitled to try and maximise their earnings. It's what we all do.

However the whole 'its about the coach' thing seems to be a belatedly attached issue. No doubt relationships have soured as proceedings have not gone to plan. As I say, to me, it seems somewhat revisionary. I have no doubt that when Trent announces he is going elsewhere it won't be about the money, it never is. It will about opportunity, change, challenge, a new start, a new environment etc. We've all heard it all before. I'm just a bit cynical. Why wasn't a poor opinion of the coach voiced from the outset?

Maybe Merrin was going to take his season performance review like a man, then SookMoz and Beavis got in his ear (Just before the experts from here)?
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
23,082
Which makes it about the money Benny. Which I don't have a problem with btw. I've always maintained that these blokes are entitled to try and maximise their earnings. It's what we all do.

However the whole 'its about the coach' thing seems to be a belatedly attached issue. No doubt relationships have soured as proceedings have not gone to plan. As I say, to me, it seems somewhat revisionary. I have no doubt that when Trent announces he is going elsewhere it won't be about the money, it never is. It will about opportunity, change, challenge, a new start, a new environment etc. We've all heard it all before. I'm just a bit cynical. Why wasn't a poor opinion of the coach voiced from the outset?

In a way, yeah, but its a lot deeper than that. Had we not made the initial promise, might be a different story.

IMO, put together based on the articles in the media, what I've been told by someone involved with Cutters (not sure on reliability) and comments from the reliable people in JA, this is about more than just money.
 

bottle

Coach
Messages
14,126
In a way, yeah, but its a lot deeper than that. Had we not made the initial promise, might be a different story.

IMO, put together based on the articles in the media, what I've been told by someone involved with Cutters (not sure on reliability) and comments from the reliable people in JA, this is about more than just money.

Fair enough, will have to wait and see what transpires. I've no doubt that once it's announced it will be about a host of things, but NOT MONEY. ;-)
Alas, I have no sources, which is why I hang around here with you lot.
 

Dragon66

Juniors
Messages
640
Fair enough, will have to wait and see what transpires. I've no doubt that once it's announced it will be about a host of things, but NOT MONEY. ;-)
Alas, I have no sources, which is why I hang around here with you lot.

LOL. When was the last player to come out after signing with a new club and say: "Mate with the money they offered me I wasn't going anywhere else. I loved my last club but no way was I going to pass up on this offer. I'm not that big a mug".

No, it's always about fresh start, opportunity to improve my game, always wanted to play under (insert name of coach), Change of scenery, impressed by the professionalism of my new club etc etc.

I have to join Grouch and the other "realists" here. It's about the money full stop, as far as I'm concerned the rest is bullshit for the media.

We now only want good players, which is good, but because of some of our previous over priced signings our brown paper bags are just not big enough atm.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,677
I can see it now. Doust telling Merrin stick with us boy and you will become the biggest paid forward in the Dragons history. Merrin thinks wow, sounds awesome. Merrin does no research, Saints come in with 1.8mil which is the highest amount for a forward and he calls Saints liars because his Manager can guarantee him more.
 

rasaint

Juniors
Messages
1,084
I do not believe any club will pay over $550 k for Trent. Other clubs are not stupid. I believe he will eventually leave and go for the same or less money to save face now. Seriously not a $400 k plus player in my opinion. Not saying he is a over rated etc. he is a good player and our club is offering him top coin which IMO is offers.
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
For us it has been about money and desperation to play by some of our signings.....Widdop came as a big signing ,big money for him, Dugan signed on good money when there was no other option for him.We paid good money for Benji , we were desperate for a play maker half....Glad to have these players on board,but they did not come over to us because of coaching ,or who was coach at the time so really money does talk and limited offers from other clubs is why we have these players......
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,643
I'd have to say, the buck stops with the Dragon's Board of Management.

This whole affair has been handled very poorly and Mulholland arrived far too late to rescue the situation. Everyone has their take on the situation mainly gleamed from what they have heard or read. I'd say very few of us on here know the full story. Here is my take:

· Our players enjoyed an easy run under Price (xmpt Soward).
· Our players saw Mary, as assistant coach under Price, as one of the coaching team which came up with mad game plans and stupid team selections.
· As assistant coach, I believe Mary rubbed a few players the wrong way; Morris and Merrin being two of them.
· When Mary was appointed head coach, he made the point that things would have to change and made it clear it did not matter who you are, you are in the coaches sights if improvement was not made.
· At end of season player review interviews, Mary went in very hard and for the majority of players it was not a problem - just the usual rant by a coach. But for Morris and Merrin, (both already considering moving on), the conversation focused more on their salary and the difficulty of remaining under the cap. I believe during these discussions, Mary put both Morris and Merrin off side by telling them both there is little room for a pay increase and no room to pay what they are asking. Mary’s invitation for both Morris and Merrin to test the market and let’s see where things land, was reported but denied by the Club.

Well things have landed:

· Morris gets more money (through a good TPA deal) and he also gets to play with his twin brother by signing with the Dogs.
· Merrin gets to feel good about himself because the Panthers, the Broncos, the Warriors and to a lesser extent the Titans and the Sharks all showing interest in him - if you believe the press. This interst from other Clubs confirming the advice of his manager.

Taking the above into consideration:

· The Board should have signed up Josh Morris when his contract was up instead of signing Beale and Farrell. If they did this we would have had a suitable replacement for Cooper and the Morris boys would have been together. Brett could have played at fullback or even at left center if he so desired.
· The Board should have extended Merrin’s contract in late 2013 or early 2014. They had a good knowledge of his potential and an awareness of their salary cap situation at that time. He should have been given a four year extension keeping him under contract until his late 20s. He should have been made to feel valuable to the Club.
· A Morris for Cooper/Gasnier and Merrin to replace Creagh as captain after Creagh’s retirement, should have been the way to go.

Player recruitment and retention has been one of our Club’s biggest problems over the past few years. Yes, Craig Young and Peter Doust performed very poorly in this area however, it was well publicized that the Board had to sign off on all player contracts and these sign-offs seemed to take an awful long time.

The Dragon’s Board of Management has failed Club members in this area (and in many other areas of their responsibility).
 
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Puff2010

Juniors
Messages
177
A sound analysis . Good points and I would have to say " hits the nail on the head".
Doust Young & Co have a lot to answer for and hopefully face the music at the AGM.
In the mean time lets look fwd and support Mary, Mulholland and the team
 

love my saints

Juniors
Messages
775
I have to join Grouch and the other "realists" here. It's about the money full stop, as far as I'm concerned the rest is bullshit for the media.

Haha grouch thinks its all Marys fault!!! He thinks Merrin is going for less money to play under a better coach!
sorry buddy just had to clear that up.
 

love my saints

Juniors
Messages
775
I'd have to say, the buck stops with the Dragon's Board of Management.

This whole affair has been handled very poorly and Mulholland arrived far too late to rescue the situation. Everyone has their take on the situation mainly gleamed from what they have heard or read. I'd say very few of us on here know the full story. Here is my take:

· Our players enjoyed an easy run under Price (xmpt Soward).
· Our players saw Mary, as assistant coach under Price, as one of the coaching team which came up with mad game plans and stupid team selections.
· As assistant coach, I believe Mary rubbed a few players the wrong way; Morris and Merrin being two of them.
· When Mary was appointed head coach, he made the point that things would have to change and made it clear it did not matter who you are, you are in the coaches sights if improvement was not made.
· At end of season player review interviews, Mary went in very hard and for the majority of players it was not a problem - just the usual rant by a coach. But for Morris and Merrin, (both already considering moving on), the conversation focused more on their salary and the difficulty of remaining under the cap. I believe during these discussions, Mary put both Morris and Merrin off side by telling them both there is little room for a pay increase and no room to pay what they are asking. Mary’s invitation for both Morris and Merrin to test the market and let’s see where things land, was reported but denied by the Club.

Well things have landed:

· Morris gets more money (through a good TPA deal) and he also gets to play with his twin brother by signing with the Dogs.
· Merrin gets to feel good about himself because the Panthers, the Broncos, the Warriors and to a lesser extent the Titans and the Sharks all showing interest in him - if you believe the press. This interst from other Clubs confirming the advice of his manager.

Taking the above into consideration:

· The Board should have signed up Josh Morris when his contract was up instead of signing Beale and Farrell. If they did this we would have had a suitable replacement for Cooper and the Morris boys would have been together. Brett could have played at fullback or even at left center if he so desired.
· The Board should have extended Merrin’s contract in late 2013 or early 2014. They had a good knowledge of his potential and an awareness of their salary cap situation at that time. He should have been given a four year extension keeping him under contract until his late 20s. He should have been made to feel valuable to the Club.
· A Morris for Cooper/Gasnier and Merrin to replace Creagh as captain after Creagh’s retirement, should have been the way to go.

Player recruitment and retention has been one of our Club’s biggest problems over the past few years. Yes, Craig Young and Peter Doust performed very poorly in this area however, it was well publicized that the Board had to sign off on all player contracts and these sign-offs seemed to take an awful long time.

The Dragon’s Board of Management has failed Club members in this area (and in many other areas of their responsibility).
Not having a go at you mate, as i enjoy most of your posts. But imo you are wrong on alot of points here.
First... The dragons have made a play at signing J.moz each and everytime his contract was close to ending. And i mean a "Big play". The TPA's in his contract with the dogs are huge. I know this for a fact.
true we have fallen behind with TPA's, but as was the case with Gasnier, they can come back and screw you over.
the signing of beale, that was a fullback signing originally, but when the best fullback in the game become available, WE SIGNED HIM. That shows that we still try get the best team possible.
We tried beale at centre, was a fail, we off loaded him. Again, imo we did what was best.
second point, The players didnt like being told to perform or else? And not to expect to be paid what they are asking?
In B.Moz's case he deserves the money, but without solid TPA's no winger is worth that much off the salary cap.
Merrin, please someone tell me what he did to deserve a major pay rise? He played origin? Oh wow! So did justin poore, does that make him worth $800k?
My point is Merrin is a good player, but not an elite player. When we were getting flogged around in the middle, he didnt stand and deliver, he wasnt alone, but he did nothing to be able to now say he is worth $800k.
the only forwards we had that played with heart were creagh and frizzell in 2014 and weyman in 2013.
I watched the all stars game, and the wcc game, and if anyone deserves the plodder tag, imo its merrin.
Lets see how well he plays, he will be under the microscope now.
 
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love my saints

Juniors
Messages
775
You're completely out of your mind.

You made a claim previously calling all my points as "bullsh!t".
I called you out and said "please explain", and i clearly told you "dont avoid replying like a little b!tch"....
Still no reply, no surprise really, you talk sh!t and then run like a b!tch when you get called out.
Keep throwing your worthless comments, its at the stage now everyone knows what you are, and no one cares any more about what you say.
You dont contribute anything but smartass comments, so keep on letting me know that you actively seek my comments :)
Glad im on your mind :)
 

rainman44

Bench
Messages
3,189
Not having a go at you mate, as i enjoy most of your posts. But imo you are wrong on alot of points here.
First... The dragons have made a play at signing J.moz each and everytime his contract was close to ending. And i mean a "Big play". The TPA's in his contract with the dogs are huge. I know this for a fact.
true we have fallen behind with TPA's, but as was the case with Gasnier, they can come back and screw you over.
the signing of beale, that was a fullback signing originally, but when the best fullback in the game become available, WE SIGNED HIM. That shows that we still try get the best team possible.
We tried beale at centre, was a fail, we off loaded him. Again, imo we did what was best.
second point, The players didnt like being told to perform or else? And not to expect to be paid what they are asking?
In B.Moz's case he deserves the money, but without solid TPA's no winger is worth that much off the salary cap.
Merrin, please someone tell me what he did to deserve a major pay rise? He played origin? Oh wow! So did justin poore, does that make him worth $800k?
My point is Merrin is a good player, but not an elite player. When we were getting flogged around in the middle, he didnt stand and deliver, he wasnt alone, but he did nothing to be able to now say he is worth $800k.
the only forwards we had that played with heart were creagh and frizzell in 2014 and weyman in 2013.
I watched the all stars game, and the wcc game, and if anyone deserves the plodder tag, imo its merrin.
Lets see how well he plays, he will be under the microscope now.
I agree with just about everything you said except the TPA s will not screw the rich and private owned clubs as they are paying the tpa s out of there own money as most of the tpa s are bogus. Its called one big rort and we are not in on it. Very sad as things wont get better until we go private.
 

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
You made a claim previously calling all my points as "bullsh!t".
I called you out and said "please explain", and i clearly told you "dont avoid replying like a little b!tch"....
Still no reply, no surprise really, you talk sh!t and then run like a b!tch when you get called out.
Keep throwing your worthless comments, its at the stage now everyone knows what you are, and no one cares any more about what you say.
You dont contribute anything but smartass comments, so keep on letting me know that you actively seek my comments :)
Glad im on your mind :)

This

:clap::clap::clap:
 

love my saints

Juniors
Messages
775
I agree with just about everything you said except the TPA s will not screw the rich and private owned clubs as they are paying the tpa s out of there own money as most of the tpa s are bogus. Its called one big rort and we are not in on it. Very sad as things wont get better until we go private.

Agree 100% with you champ. Unfortunately we dont have a leagues club making big profits or millionaire backers that can pump money into "bogus businesses" to pay players.
We are trying to survive "legit" and "legit" nowadays gets you no where!
 

The Nick

Bench
Messages
2,660
You made a claim previously calling all my points as "bullsh!t".
I called you out and said "please explain", and i clearly told you "dont avoid replying like a little b!tch"....
Still no reply, no surprise really, you talk sh!t and then run like a b!tch when you get called out.
Keep throwing your worthless comments, its at the stage now everyone knows what you are, and no one cares any more about what you say.
You dont contribute anything but smartass comments, so keep on letting me know that you actively seek my comments :)
Glad im on your mind :)

Most interesting thing about Grouch and his little bum chum Repetitive View is that after spending the entire off season bagging Mary's appointment as coach, they have been conspicuously absent from the post-trial threads... Seems their interests around the club are purely limited to bagging management decisions.
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
23,082
Not having a go at you mate, as i enjoy most of your posts. But imo you are wrong on alot of points here.
First... The dragons have made a play at signing J.moz each and everytime his contract was close to ending. And i mean a "Big play". The TPA's in his contract with the dogs are huge. I know this for a fact.
true we have fallen behind with TPA's, but as was the case with Gasnier, they can come back and screw you over.
the signing of beale, that was a fullback signing originally, but when the best fullback in the game become available, WE SIGNED HIM. That shows that we still try get the best team possible.
We tried beale at centre, was a fail, we off loaded him. Again, imo we did what was best.
second point, The players didnt like being told to perform or else? And not to expect to be paid what they are asking?
In B.Moz's case he deserves the money, but without solid TPA's no winger is worth that much off the salary cap.
Merrin, please someone tell me what he did to deserve a major pay rise? He played origin? Oh wow! So did justin poore, does that make him worth $800k?
My point is Merrin is a good player, but not an elite player. When we were getting flogged around in the middle, he didnt stand and deliver, he wasnt alone, but he did nothing to be able to now say he is worth $800k.
the only forwards we had that played with heart were creagh and frizzell in 2014 and weyman in 2013.
I watched the all stars game, and the wcc game, and if anyone deserves the plodder tag, imo its merrin.
Lets see how well he plays, he will be under the microscope now.

Not gunna argue with too much of the above, but best fullback in the game?! Maybe Top 5 if hes lucky...
 

love my saints

Juniors
Messages
775
Not gunna argue with too much of the above, but best fullback in the game?! Maybe Top 5 if hes lucky...

DUGAN...JOSH DUGAN... THE DUGES... THE MAN WHO WALKS ON WATER!!! Top 5 IF HIS LUCKY? ??
Each to there own i guess, in my opinion, when not injured Dugan is the best fullback in the game. Just my opinion though.
 

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