Future NRL Stadiums

[Perth Red]

Why the need for 65k? Do you think this new stadium will replace ANZ? Surely you'd keep ANZ for 50k+ games and have the new stadium around 40k? If it is going to replace ANZ then is 65k going to be big enough? Seems a strange size, too big for club games, too small for major events.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Why the need for 65k? Do you think this new stadium will replace ANZ? Surely you'd keep ANZ for 50k+ games and have the new stadium around 40k? If it is going to replace ANZ then is 65k going to be big enough? Seems a strange size, too big for club games, too small for major events.

Assuming this isnt all just showmanship for a different goal, would imagine this would make Moore Park the centrepiece of the NRLs sydney strategy (GF, Origin, etc)

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Even if the stadiums get re-developed there still be thousand of empty seats week in, week out. It can be the best stadium in the world with the easiest transport access there still be empty seats. Until the attendence culture change, no matter what happen to the stadiums won't increase attendance straight away.

The NRL need a set plan with the development of the stadiums so when the stadiums come to fruition there should be an increase in attendance. In particular, when it comes to ticket prices, transport, rental prices, etc. Hopefully by then, NRL can reach 20k average attendence if the stadiums are world-class.

 

[ash the bash]

I wonder if the NRL will have a stake in the stadium ? Could make it cheaper for NRL clubs to use them if the NRL are 10% shareholders for example.

 

[Von Neumann]

Clover Moore denounces $800m Moore Park stadium proposal as 'greedy land grab'

May 5, 2015 - 7:12AM

Leesha McKenny

Urban Affairs Reporter

A proposal to replace public land at Moore Park with an $800 million stadium has been slammed as "fundamentally inappropriate" by the head of the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust.
Lord mayor Clover Moore – along with the state member for Sydney, Alex Greenwich – has also condemned the proposal to build a 65,000-seat stadium on public open space as "another greedy land grab" by the Sydney Cricket Ground Trust.
Former Liberal leader John Brogden is preparing a report into Sydney's stadiums for the state government, which has earmarked $600 million from the sale of the state's electricity assets for sporting venues.
It is understood Sports Minister Stuart Ayres is enthusiastic about a new rectangular stadium at Moore Park, however a spokeswoman declined to comment.


As reported by Fairfax Media last week, this proposed facility would replace public open space next to Kippax Lake, an area bounded by Moore Park Road, Anzac Parade and Driver Avenue that is owned by the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust.
The trust's chairman, Tony Ryan, said the proposal was "fundamentally inappropriate for Moore Park" because it would lead to the loss of green space, impact on heritage and due to the area's existing traffic gridlock.
"It is ironic to note that in the lead-up to the 150-year anniversary celebrations of Moore Park as a place for the public, we are instead talking about building over it for permanent private and commercial use," Mr Ryan said
"Moore Park, which is part of Centennial Parklands, is set amongst the highest density population zones in Sydney, with large-scale population growth projected in surrounding suburbs over the next 20 years.
"This is not the time to be reducing public open space, but enhancing it."
A recent City of Sydney report highlighted the acute need for active green space in the inner city, which are facing increased strain because of the area's growing population.
The council report said there could be a shortfall of 28 sporting fields by 2031, when 54,000 people would be living in apartments in nearby Green Square.
Sydney's lord mayor urged the government to put the needs of the public ahead of "the private and corporate interests who want to take over Moore Park".
"This seems to be nothing more than another greedy land grab by the men who run the SCG Trust," Ms Moore said.
"Along with the $38 million bridge across Anzac Parade, it reeks of 'empire building'."
The proposed venue's expected $800 million price tag would require the state government to significantly increase its $600 million funding commitment.
It is also risks putting the government at odds with the direction set out in its own metropolitan strategy, which has prioritised the need for a "new landmark venue for sporting and cultural events" in western Sydney.
Independent Sydney MP Alex Greenwich said the community would rally to oppose any loss of parkland, as it had done in 2010 when the SCG Trust sought to take control of the area to use as permanent car parking.
"The SCG has a long history of blatant attempts to grab public land and proven its aims are to build and park cars on, commercialise and privatise our parklands," Mr Greenwich said.
"This latest proposal is its most destructive yet and the community is ready to battle again."
Former environment minister Rob Stokes told Fairfax Media in March he was "not aware of any proposal" for the SCG Trust to take over parts of Moore Park.
A spokesman for Premier Mike Baird said: "The government will consider plans to upgrade sports stadiums in Sydney once it has received Mr Brogden's report."
A SCG Trust spokesman declined to comment.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/clover-mo...osal-as-greedy-land-grab-20150504-ggtrqk.html

But, the govt IS the people. Won't everyone be using their 'own' land when they goto the stadium?

I dont care if the SCG trust makes money, the world has to turn.

Obviously not everyone is going to be happy about this. Whats this new super stadium trust thing anway - wont that ensure the, ahem.... "greedy" and "powerful beyond measure" SCG guys don't just throw all the gold into the dragon den? Won't the new stadiums strategy board be set up to jointly run these things?

This is just one lot having land taken. But be that as it may sydney needs more green space (and melbourne kicks it hands down there IMO) sydney ALSO needs a new stadium.

Why can't they make the stadium surrounds greener? Why can't sydney do what other cities are doing when it comes to being green, and look at new measures - like trees not on ground level, on rooftops, ect. And other things besides.

Im all for a power balance. Put in place a set of conditions. They should not be crippling, but they should help the public maintain some semblance of control in the situation. Though I suppose the original 300m allocation came with some conditions.

___

To my mind I am seeing an area that is lined with trees if this is possible, kind of like the long path in melbourne along the river by the casino, that heads off in the direction of the G. You guys probably know the one. Its wide, its greeen, and then you go up to fed square on the left over the bridge, its actually quite a good blend of concrete, architecture, wide open space, greenery, nature with the river.

Note the main media performers pushing for the Moore Park redevelopment
Alan Jones
Gerry Harvey

Alan Jones is a SCG trustee and Gerry Harvey's wife Katie Page is also on the trust.

yeah, but im starting to really like jones and his talkback program again, its been 15 years since I have heard much of it. but the guy did take a dig at the nrl over money money money a short time back. but whatever, wont agree with him all the time.

 

[Von Neumann]

But something else arises out of all this.

Still in the planning stage, and the NRL won't like this.

Step 1. Buy out ANZ, 130M, knock it down and replace that with a new rectangular stadium. You'd still have money left over to spruce up Allianz. You could make better use of vertical space and put a bowl around the top, meaning the current space for the top stands would be shrunk down to make a 'middle tier', and the rake of the bottom would be improved a bit if thats possible, maybe you'd sink the pitch too. The roof line and general shape would become rectangular.

You could then build a new stand at parra, a BIG stand, think St James Park in England, and put a new roof line around that to blend it in. It won't be as pretty, but with a good roof design you can make it sparkle.

Step 2 None of it would reach the wonderful 80k, 60k, 35-40k stadium plan, but whatever. The trees matter. We do, afterall share genes with trees.

Step 3 Languish.

Step 4. Realise the part about the SFS and a big refurb is legitimate; and parramatta probably too.

Step 5. Plant trees. LOTS of trees - despite the fact that the ocean generates the most oxygen via phytoplankton.

Step 6. BUILD AN OCEAN!!!! Convert "green-space" thinking into "ocean-space" thinking

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Why the need for 65k? Do you think this new stadium will replace ANZ? Surely you'd keep ANZ for 50k+ games and have the new stadium around 40k? If it is going to replace ANZ then is 65k going to be big enough? Seems a strange size, too big for club games, too small for major events.

It'd make sense.

Keep the Grand Final, State of Origin, Socceroos, and other tent-pole events at Stadium Australia as befitting a national stadium. Play everything else at the new SFS or Parra.

 

[Von Neumann]

It'd make sense.

Keep the Grand Final, State of Origin, Socceroos, and other tent-pole events at Stadium Australia as befitting a national stadium. Play everything else at the new SFS or Parra.

if everyone at anz gets paid and they finish the year with 1 dollar profit then thats a great result in my book. They'll just have to get over the fact that there's no money in the stadium. Its doing a lot of good work though

 

[alien]

:lol::lol: How the hell will people get too and From Parramatta Staduim? At 18k it's bad enough double that. Is just crazy

well there is a train station fairly close to the stadium. i always find it easy to get there. it's like some people want teleporters

 

[Von Neumann]

ANZ Stadium loses out under plan to build new sports stadiums at Moore Park and Parramatta
In my opinion, I don't think that it will be happening. I would be surprised to see the State Gov more then doubling the allocated finance.

By the way, if this plan were to somehow get the green light, that $100m allocated to the Multi purpose Arena, should be redirected to Manly's efforts in building their beautique stadium. It's a no brainer, but once again dumb decision are pending to happen.

I agree about the $100m going to manly's great looking new stadium; but even that having their 25k so close, would need some consideration.

Spoke about this before on here, elsewhere (and about something else) -- but now that its out there in a solid way opinions will be formed and reformed again, support come, and go, and more sides come on board and make themselves heard - they MUST listen. Im all for the scg guys doing this, but I would much prefer it if there was a FOOTBALL trust doing this and not a cricket ground trust. If not for the NSW stadiums management authorities thing, I would not be in favor of this.

Id be prepared to sit in their corner so far as it helps sydney out but I am not actually sitting in any corner in reality.

The multi purpose arena to my mind is money grubbing. Sydney/NSW started this whole thing out about stadia. Not arena's.

I used to think it may have fit into some kind of plan well. It does but a better use would be for Manly.

__

The plan for this new stadium that comes out better be impressive. It probably by this stage should include a shed-load of environmental blending things, whatnot, and it needs to be a stadium that has people salivating.

If its not they will be squirting it up the wall. The former plan of a sfs refurb/light rain would then make a lot more sense.

Bearing in mind none of this is set in stone. A public cooling off period now, and after any such design is released would be a great thing for perspective.

To my mind, the focus cannot be hijacked away from quality stadia first and foremost, so the Arena may be a part of that, and this plan as its been padded out recently in the papers is a definite must do to my mind; this quality of stadium and group of stadia is a necessity; so hopefully any meddling to the grand plan will not whisk it out of reach. If the scg trust are to land it, and suppose it is "empire building" I dont frankly mind. Someone with the capability has to run this, and the NSW govt stadia group should be given powers to oversee it....if that means greenspace is impinged slightly, or they have to fit this into broader plans, so be it. The idea of the city 5 years ago in our minds-eye may not take into account the idea of the city in the map in our mind today. Which, with these stadia, is a far better map. And the public transport links need to be buffed up.

 

[cleary89]

Why would Manly get 100m when no other council grounds will?

Keep ANZ as a "Wembly" type arena with everything else at the new SFS.

Gallop was out supporting the NRL plan. Get the bomb collar bloke in and form a coalition and f**k AFL off. But yeh, the SCG trust has some pretty big influence.

 

[Von Neumann]

Why would Manly get 100m when no other council grounds will?

Keep ANZ as a "Wembly" type arena with everything else at the new SFS.

Gallop was out supporting the NRL plan. Get the bomb collar bloke in and form a coalition and f**k AFL off. But yeh, the SCG trust has some pretty big influence.

Thats a good point. I myself struggled to justify it, and probably had more to do with spreading the money away from the Arena, which everyone would need more info on to make an informed opinion. Can't speak for the other bloke.

But what I left unsaid is that Manly should once and for all be enforced to goto the new SFS. They'll get used to it. This local ground/special treatment thing is not in line with the overall strategy. Manly should be no different.

I still have not forgotten that final they abandoned at the SFS to play at Brooky and they took a large financial hit ---- IN THE MIDDLE OF A CLUB FINANCIAL CRISIS! :crazy:

Then they played the cowboys at the sfs once and got a lame crowd. But here's the thing: the stadium won't just come and we go on like we are. No - the sport will change the way it does stuff, people will adjust.

People like Richard Hinds rightly point this lackluster crowd thing out, but at the end of the day if we want something different we need to do different. And clubs are on that track - but this kind of thing will propel that momentum in that direction, of that which the potential has been unlocked. I personally think there is more potential to be unlocked in the future. So do many others.

 

[alien]

it's a hell of alot of money to spend on a new 65,000 seat stadium to basically replace a 85,000 seat stadium where the seats are only a little further away from the field. seems a waste of funds to me. there is nothing wrong with the current sfs

 

[Von Neumann]

it's a hell of alot of money to spend on a new 65,000 seat stadium to basically replace a 85,000 seat stadium where the seats are only a little further away from the field. seems a waste of funds to me. there is nothing wrong with the current sfs

I see this side of the argument. I am however going to wait to see the plans of the stadium and light rail with my eyes. Then we'll know if people will actually go to it in greater numbers.

I do note that future years of the competition will have less rounds, thus placing higher importance on attendance. Also there will be more tests, and such a ground would be good for international football.

Also, there will be rugby and soccer there. In truth the SFS stands leave a fair bit to be desired, now that we have stands the calibre of suncorp stadium. Its not replacing ANZ. It will be a 'bread and butter' stadium though.

But you're right - its a lot of money, none of it the SCG trust's who seem to be behind the plans. Hopefully the nsw people can retain some ownership of it or something. They best get it right. And not only that but the NRL will have a say in the stadium and hopefully some kind of management rights to it - after all the plan is to have the NRL generating most of its crowds.

Parra is the clearest winner out of this. That stadium is going to be obviously fine. The SFS much will need to align. I think it will. Many paths are intersecting before the stadium was even announced, that lead me to believe it will be fine too.

But the good news for us, and I take this view anyway, that if the Trust wants this amount of money then it will need to open up its doors, at least ajar, for the NRL and the govt to help run the thing. In some way. Im a thinker at the moment - not a do-er....so it remains to be seen what people would want to do upon waking up and having to work together on this. Thats up to them. But I dont think it will work well into the future without that door ajar.

__

Anyway here is how construction of liverpools new stand is going to be done in a short presentation from start to finish.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/see-what-liverpools-new-look-stadium-4749239

I wonder how much though overall for a ground like this. 115 million pounds is about 220 million dollars with existing structure and adding only 8k new seats. wonder how much 4 of these brand new would cost, or 2 of them with other stands on the ends.

Mentioning because the main stand will become one of the largest all-seater single stands in Europe....or do you guys want a "Kop" instead? Forget allseater - thats the dills way. We could just make the stadium an all-stander!

 

[alien]

For people who don't want to walk to the SFS from Central Station, there are usually heaps of buses on game day between the 2 destinations, so I am not sure why the light rail line is so necessary. Von Neumann, what is wrong with the stands at the SFS??? If this new 65,000 seat stadium isn't to replace ANZ Stadium then what is the point? The SFS is a good stadium and games that need a larger capacity can be played at ANZ Stadium. This new multi-purpose sports centre seems like a waste of funds too. There is already the Sydney Superdome at Olympic Park (which is world class) and a smaller version being built in the city already.

Parramatta Stadium should be upgraded to get a larger capacity, but it sounds like they are going to demolish it all and start again. I would have thought an extra level of seats behind the posts on each end would increase the capacity to around 30,000. That should be enough for the Eels and Wanderers, and it wouldn't cost that much to do.

ANZ Stadium should remain the main stadium for Sydney. It's in a good place (around the centre of the Sydney metro area), train station next door, plenty of parking, easier to get out of the area after the game (compared to the sfs/scg area), already has a good capacity. anz stadium already said they were planning on making the seats behind the posts on both ends very close to the field and also the stadium getting a retractable roof.

 

[Perth Red]

A 65k stadium is still going to look sht for 95% of club games. Build a 40k roofed stadium to replace sfs, upgrade parra to 35k with decent stand roofs, leave ANZ as is for big games and finals, replace manly, Cronulla and Penrith with new 20k stadiums. Sydney sorted.

 

[Von Neumann]

For people who don't want to walk to the SFS from Central Station, there are usually heaps of buses on game day between the 2 destinations, so I am not sure why the light rail line is so necessary. Von Neumann, what is wrong with the stands at the SFS??? If this new 65,000 seat stadium isn't to replace ANZ Stadium then what is the point? The SFS is a good stadium and games that need a larger capacity can be played at ANZ Stadium. This new multi-purpose sports centre seems like a waste of funds too. There is already the Sydney Superdome at Olympic Park (which is world class) and a smaller version being built in the city already.

Parramatta Stadium should be upgraded to get a larger capacity, but it sounds like they are going to demolish it all and start again. I would have thought an extra level of seats behind the posts on each end would increase the capacity to around 30,000. That should be enough for the Eels and Wanderers, and it wouldn't cost that much to do.

ANZ Stadium should remain the main stadium for Sydney. It's in a good place (around the centre of the Sydney metro area), train station next door, plenty of parking, easier to get out of the area after the game (compared to the sfs/scg area), already has a good capacity. anz stadium already said they were planning on making the seats behind the posts on both ends very close to the field and also the stadium getting a retractable roof.

Its not that I don't agree somewhat. Hey I mean I could see that happening

When it was just all in its infancy I wondered if sfs would just make better use of vertical space and slap on a new roof, keep the bottom ring and wack on a fully surrounding top tier of seats.
It made so much sense to a non engineering view. Mine is largely such a view

But...well.... I think that given the benefits of building anew with all the extra revenue things a new stadium can do, and the hassle of going without a stadium and any closing down costs it makes more sense.

Not that alone but if u look at the stadium just what are you going to do with it? The layout in terms of making it better is to inefficient. Its a sprawling design for 40k seats. Nothing can really be done with the stands I suspect without affecting the whole thing. And the one piece design of the roof just looks like a hassle.

For these reasons it may not cost too much more but with a new site, to my mind, u can get around a lot of the inconveniences and limitations.

So it would seem. I conducted no report into this but with everything I know, its fitting.

Look at that new Liverpool stand in my previous post. Doubled the floor space and put stuff in underneath, increased access and put in new entry's for a better stadium. Made the outside area better.

Too much mucking around and probably cost to do up sfs

,............

With parra that makes sense but again I think with more available money comes increased scope and benefits. So you can get more value. No sense doing a half hearted job for such a big thing that's meant to last decades.

.....

I agree with anz but it probably doesn't need changing. Its not as bad I reckon as some make out. It will still be a useful stadium.

Both parra and homebush will undergo significant changes in years to come. Home bush with housing and parra with commercial and residential buildings, redoing the entire city area pretty much. Check it out online. So having home bush and its great facilities remain is good. They will age but unless they knock down anz which would be a shame and likely mistake, the area can be upgraded as more of the region comes online in 10 plus years.

Should all be good in the end
.........

Light rail makes enormous differences. Like trams in Melbourne. If you goto gabba compared to Suncorp you notice that trains, light rail, beat catching a bus hands down. That's if you're able to use trains to the door practically. So a station within 200 meters, but under 100 ideally, similar to MCG and Suncorp which are more even, is experience changing
....

And the difference between the two apart from location is new sfs is a football stadium and eastern entertainment precinct, while anz is a kind of multi use venue even if they rectangle-it, and is an entertainment precinct in the west. Only time will tell which one is better but now the city will have 2. Its a big city, geographically vast by world standards

 

[pHyR3]

A 65k stadium is still going to look sht for 95% of club games. Build a 40k roofed stadium to replace sfs, upgrade parra to 35k with decent stand roofs, leave ANZ as is for big games and finals, replace manly, Cronulla and Penrith with new 20k stadiums. Sydney sorted.

where do Souths, Tigers, Bulldogs and Dragons play?

40k roofed stadium out west is needed imo

 

[Von Neumann]

A 65k stadium is still going to look sht for 95% of club games. Build a 40k roofed stadium to replace sfs, upgrade parra to 35k with decent stand roofs, leave ANZ as is for big games and finals, replace manly, Cronulla and Penrith with new 20k stadiums. Sydney sorted.

But that's not the plan before the premier. They've done the right thing ultimately. In this lot around the above is not in question. Just to get here they've done several studies. I can only imagine how many citations and references the report contains!

The suburb model won't work. This is not London, which btw is struggling in regards to stadia. Big resistance there. Its more than costs, as the city expands such things displace and impact more and more people and infrastructure

 

[Perth Red]

Cronulla, Penrith and manly are never going to survive in centralised stadiums. They can barely draw crowds with stadiums on their doorsteps. Sydney folk won't travel from outer suburbia to ANZ or sfs and those clubs do not have the city wide appeal of the bigger clubs.

Ph Bulldogs and tigers a redeveloped parra stadium. Souths and dragons (1/2 games) a new 40k sfs replacement.

With this current plan the three outer suburb clubs are still screwed and we end up with two big empty stadiums where most club games will be played. Doesn't sound like a good outcome for nrl in Sydney.