Have the Tigers convinced Moltzen to stay? Release sought from his Saints contract

[grouch]

Attracting Blair is a coup regardless of which way you want to push your agenda.

Some coup. The Tigers have made Blair the highest paid forward in the game. A plan so cunning a monkey could have devised it

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Highest paid according to whom? The Daily Telegraph?

I couldn't care less what he's being paid, the only thing that matters is that we've lost nobody significant to gain his services. That will do me just fine.

 

[_Johnsy]

I couldn't care less what he's being paid, the only thing that matters is that we've lost nobody significant to gain his services. That will do me just fine.

Money freed up by the follwing losses.

Todd Payten - Taniela Tuiaki - Jason Cayless - Wade McKinnon - Andrew Fifita - Bryce Gibbs

Plus the rumours of maybe another one maybe 2.

 

[Firey_Dragon]

Excellent, Sheens has a good rapport with the players. Attracting Blair is a coup regardless of which way you want to push your agenda.

Having the Stewart and Sims Brothers playing for other teams suggests your club is right on top of its junior identification and retention.

We "lost" the Stewarts like 8 years ago when we had a bloke by the name of Greenshields at fullback? The sims brothers were a package deal, keep Ashton on good money when he is as useless as tits on a bull or lose Tariq and Korbin, both who were a long time away from being in first grade. Releasing Ashton was the only option.

Soon you will argue that losing Ryles was a big loss :lol:

 

[gronkathon]

Ryles needed to travel in order to spread his gift of conceding geniused penalties to other clubs

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Money freed up by the follwing losses.

Todd Payten - Taniela Tuiaki - Jason Cayless - Wade McKinnon - Andrew Fifita - Bryce Gibbs

Plus the rumours of maybe another one maybe 2.

Payten and Tuiaki retired, as did Cayless (he was on next to nothing anyway).

The notion that we lost half a side to fit Blair in is ridiculous. Again, no significant losses.

 

[R2Coupe]

We "lost" the Stewarts like 8 years ago when we had a bloke by the name of Greenshields at fullback? The sims brothers were a package deal, keep Ashton on good money when he is as useless as tits on a bull or lose Tariq and Korbin, both who were a long time away from being in first grade. Releasing Ashton was the only option.

Soon you will argue that losing Ryles was a big loss :lol:

Firey_Dragon you are not suggesting Greenshields was ever in the same class as Brett Stewart? And wasn't the issue the Dragons did not rate Glen and the brothers wanted to stay together?

And you had any number of players on big money which fell into your description of Ashton. Why were the Sims brothers treated differently?

 

[Jubileeboy]

Firey_Dragon you are not suggesting Greenshields was ever in the same class as Brett Stewart? And wasn't the issue the Dragons did not rate Glen and the brothers wanted to stay together?

And you had any number of players on big money which fell into your description of Ashton. Why were the Sims brothers treated differently?

Thanks Rothfield...lol

 

[bottle]

Lounge lizard talent scouts. And if Saints had kept them all you'd be screaming about the salary cap. Tosser.

 

[Slackboy72]

From memory we passed on Glen and the offer to Brett came with the proviso that he was behind Ben Hornby in the pecking order for fullbacks and that if he could get a better deal and a starting spot elsewhere he should probably take it. And he did.

Bad call in hindsight? Probably yes but you can't grab everyone you'd like when you don't have a spot for them in the team.

 

[Joker's Wild]

The Stewart bros were signed to Manly when they were 14 and 15 year olds. Tough for the Dragons to stop that from happening.

Who do you support R2C? I bet we could find a fair number of talented youngsters from your clubs catchment area that are playing elsewhere

 

[blaza88z]

Probably a Dog's fan..

 

[age.s]

Tigers.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Money freed up by the follwing losses.

Todd Payten - Taniela Tuiaki - Jason Cayless - Wade McKinnon - Andrew Fifita - Bryce Gibbs

Plus the rumours of maybe another one maybe 2.

-Payten is retiring after playing in the NRL for 15 years, I believe he announced his retirement before the Blair signing.

-Tuiaki retired due to injury as did Cayless (I believe) and both were gone regardless of our activity in the player market.

-McKinnon is an injury prone hack and wasn't even a starting player either by the end of the year.

-Fifita proved he's a sook after signing a huge deal with Cronulla then having a whinge that the Tigers didn't want to match it because they were chasing Blair. We won 9 in a row without him, no big loss, Woods and Groat are better and have more ticker.

-Gibbs is the only player you've listed who was a starting player for us by the end of the season, and he is a loss, no doubt about it, however Blair is a superior player to him.

Who else are these rumoured losses? The only other player who has a reasonable chance of leaving between now and round 1 2012 is Rob Lui (and it has nothing to do with the salary cap)

 

[Firey_Dragon]

Firey_Dragon you are not suggesting Greenshields was ever in the same class as Brett Stewart?

You're right, Greenshields was a much better player at the time, considering Brett Stewart was about 15 at the time.

And wasn't the issue the Dragons did not rate Glen and the brothers wanted to stay together?

Considering their age, and the people Brett had in front of him... What is your point?

And you had any number of players on big money which fell into your description of Ashton. Why were the Sims brothers treated differently?

Such as? Ryles? We didn't have that many highly expensive forwards at the time of Ashtons departure, and he couldn't hold his position in the first grade squad let alone hold a ball. Ashton was on a ridiculous salary and he's still a player that drops in and out of first grade. Tariq and Korbins talent was well known within the club, but they were a package deal and Ashton wasn't worth it.

 

[boxa777]

Well written.

For me that dispels any blame that I had set aside for Doust in this affair. There are precedents set and the Dragons have received countless verbal assurances that the Moltzen signing was all above board. As mentioned, the deeds of release havent even been finalised for Boyd or Tagive as yet. It's evidently common practice.

And in regards to the statements not being conclusive evidence of a release I think on the contrary. The sheer volume of verbal assurances through a vast array of quotes suggests to me that everyone 'was' on the same page as to the whereabouts of Moltzen's future.

He didn't show up to the meeting and Tauber has stopped returning calls despite the fact that he was especially outspoken on the matter prior. A lot of blame needs to be apportioned to him in this affair also. How he thinks he can absolve himself from the matter saying it is to be discussed by the clubs is laughable and should attest his meagre credentials going forward. No doubt his 'star' client's influence contributed to the sudden opinion change.

I'm not entirely certain that Doust has come out with this statement as a sign of resignation that we won't be getting Moltzen, moreso of frustration and a well-researched attempt at highlighting a deplorable and unprecedented conduct by a desperate and pathetic Wests Tigers club.

 

[Saint Doc]

owned!!

 

[Slackboy72]

Well written.

For me that dispels any blame that I had set aside for Doust in this affair. There are precedents set and the Dragons have received countless verbal assurances that the Moltzen signing was all above board. As mentioned, the deeds of release havent even been finalised for Boyd or Tagive as yet. It's evidently common practice.

And in regards to the statements not being conclusive evidence of a release I think on the contrary. The sheer volume of verbal assurances through a vast array of quotes suggests to me that everyone 'was' on the same page as to the whereabouts of Moltzen's future.

He didn't show up to the meeting and Tauber has stopped returning calls despite the fact that he was especially outspoken on the matter prior. A lot of blame needs to be apportioned to him in this affair also. How he thinks he can absolve himself from the matter saying it is to be discussed by the clubs is laughable and should attest his meagre credentials going forward. No doubt his 'star' client's influence contributed to the sudden opinion change.

I'm not entirely certain that Doust has come out with this statement as a sign of resignation that we won't be getting Moltzen, moreso of frustration and a well-researched attempt at highlighting a deplorable and unprecedented conduct by a desperate and pathetic Wests Tigers club.

I assume you're talking about this: http://www.dragons.com.au/default.a...ter-doust:-tim-moltzen-signing-facts-&-update

 

[God-King Dean]

http://www.dragons.com.au/default.a...ter-doust:-tim-moltzen-signing-facts-&-update

Statement From Dragons CEO Peter Doust: Tim Moltzen Signing Facts & Update



12/10/2011 7:39:40 PM


St George Illawarra Dragons CEO Peter Doust On Wednesday issued the following regarding the signing of Tim Moltzen:
On July 8 this year, the Dragons publicly announced that we had agreed to terms with Tim Moltzen for three years beginning in 2012. On this day, Stephen Humphries telephoned me to express his dissatisfaction with the timing of our announcement.
Whilst I listened to his comments on the timing, it was certainly clear to me from our conversation that the Wests Tigers intended to release Tim Moltzen from the final year of his contract with their Club.
Whilst Stephen continues to state publicly that he has never formalized the release of Tim Moltzen, Tim’s Manager Martin Tauber advised us on a number of occasions that the release was “no issue”.
Given these expressions of intent that we received, in good faith, we included Tim Moltzen as part of our roster and planning for 2012 and provided a three year contract which Tim Moltzen and Martin Tauber signed on July 12.
On the same day that Stephen expressed his frustration (July 8) that our game day announcement of Tim's signing was an issue, Tigers Coach Tim Sheens addressed this situation in his post-game press conference, denying it was a distraction. Sheens said ‘The boys were aware that Timmy was moving on …”
Tim’s Manager Martin Tauber has also publicly stated in various media channels that Stephen Humphries had verbally agreed to a release for Tim. Going even further to say “There is no issue.. He (Tim) will be at the Dragons next year” (July 12).
Tim Moltzen himself discussed his move to the Dragons publicly “It’s a weight off my shoulders … I don’t have to worry about the issue any more. It’s put to bed and my future is decided” (August 2).
Tigers five-eighth Benji Marshall, who shares a house with Tim Moltzen, is also on the public record acknowledging that Tim would be moving on at the end of the season. “He’s flying for us. He’s a big loss for the club, a massive loss. I’m devastated he’s going, especially the way he’s been playing. That’s rugby league” (Sept 12).
The Dragons have documentation from our meetings and discussions with Martin Tauber and Tim Moltzen where all arrangements in relation to the contract for Tim Moltzen were discussed. Martin also discussed the terms arranged with Wests Tigers regarding Tim’s “Deed of Release”.
Tim Moltzen has met with our incoming Head Coach Stephen Price where a number of matters were discussed including the fact that Tim had indicated that he would be moving to Wollongong.
It is quite obvious that some circumstances at the Wests Tigers have changed in recent times, otherwise why only now three months later are we made aware that there is an issue?
We believe there are still a lot of unanswered questions in relation to this issue.
It is accurate to note that this contract is yet to be registered by the NRL, as we have been waiting for the formality of the receipt of the official “Deed of Release” from the Wests Tigers. Martin Tauber had been chasing this and even indicated that he thought that this had already been completed by the Wests Tigers.
On September 27 the Tauber Management Group emailed the Dragons to enquire if we were yet to receive the official release from the Wests Tigers stating “… if not, please respond by return email and I will follow-up for you”.
In terms of the registration of a “Deed of Release”, in my some 11 years as CEO of the Dragons such arrangements have always been considered a formality and a situation such as this has never previously presented.
Furthermore I strongly believe that the game generally, athletes and their Managers have not been keen to formalize “Deeds of Release” without prospective contract arrangements in place.
Admittedly if we did have the signed release from the Wests Tigers then we would not be in this situation.
However, we strongly believe this matter should be judged on the principles of intent and actions arising in good faith.
Interestingly, at present, we are yet to formally sign the “Deeds of Release” for Darius Boyd and Ratu Peni Tagive but they are all moving on to other Clubs for next season because that is our intentions and verbal agreements were made with the players and their Managers.
If things were to suddenly change at our Club, as they appear to have for the Wests Tigers, we would not be reconsidering our position as we would stand by our conversations, assurances and undertakings that our Club had given to these players and their Managers, who at present are still officially contracted to the Dragons for 2012. In our opinion, that is not the right thing to do for any of the parties concerned.
The Dragons had not been approached by Tim Moltzen, Martin Tauber or the Wests Tigers to suggest that there was an issue with the three year Dragons contract that had been signed on July 12.
Our suspicions were raised earlier last week when both Martin Tauber and Tim Moltzen did not return phone calls to Dragons staff and Tim also failed to front for a pre-arranged meeting prior to his departure for an end of season overseas trip with other Wests Tigers players.
On October 6 Martin Tauber finally returned calls, where he indicated that he does not wish to meet Dragons staff in an attempt to resolve the issue and that it is something that needs to be sorted out between the two Clubs.
So given, the NRL have not yet registered Tim Moltzen’s signed Dragons contract for 2012-2014, we have been investigating our legal position over the past days. Certainly some sections within the NRL rules are worth exploring in protecting the Dragons’ interests.
Furthermore we have been in daily contact with Wests Tigers Management since last Tuesday ensuring they understood our “good faith” actions throughout negotiations with Tim and his Manager and were encouraged to believe that the release would be forthcoming.
Public comments made by Wests Tigers CEO Stephen Humphries on Monday, October 10 confirmed that position,
“The way that it is likely to play out is that he will be going to the Dragons. We don’t want to stretch it out.
“We will have a conversation with them in the next few days about it, but we have been working on the assumption that he won’t be here next season”.
Now today, instead of confirmation of the official release that we were encouraged to believe would happen, we have been informed by Wests Tigers that they wish to enter into further discussions with us which we believe will prolong the issue unreasonably.
It is essential that we act to conclude the profile of our playing roster for 2012 as soon as possible.
Clearly this is not something that we have been able to resolve with the Wests Tigers and we will now continue to press our contractual position in relation to Tim Moltzen and his Manager’s intentions for the 2012 season and beyond by formally referring the matter to the NRL.
We believe such circumstances are not in the best interests of the game and our club could be seriously disadvantaged at this late stage with our 2012 pre-season scheduled to start in just a matter of weeks.

You know you're struggling after Doust has sliced & diced you. :lol:

 

[Perth Red]

at present, we are yet to formally sign the “Deeds of Release” for Darius Boyd and Ratu Peni Tagive but they are all moving on to other Clubs for next season because that is our intentions and verbal agreements were made with the players and their Managers.
If things were to suddenly change at our Club, as they appear to have for the Wests Tigers, we would not be reconsidering our position


yeh right, not telling me if Boyd turned around tommorow and said he had changed his mind and really wanted to stay at the Dragons they wouldn't do the same thing!