Last night Wallaby loss shows why Union the inferior game

[Kurt Angle]

I didn't use IRB stats or bring up the Caymens but thanks champ, so nothing to add on Portugal having 30 players... no I didnt think so.

It's not my argument, why would I add to it?

I'm sure we discussed this matter before, as I said way back then, IRB participation stats aren't accurate but thanks for the irrelevent tangent.

They're as accurate as MrFarenheits "30 players in portugal" argument.

So whats your take on Mr Faranheit's 30 registered players for 49 clubs? There's contact info there if you doubt the clubs exist.

It may not be true. No one knows because honesty isn't a strong point of Rugby Union, and that includes you, thus you aren't in a position to correct other peoples misinformation if you don't know the truth.

The irrelvent crap that your willing to write never ceases to amaze me. What will you reply to this with, Vichy, Tv stats, player stats in Mongolia, maybe a rant about Dunning?

Just because your grey matter can't connect dots it doesn't mean it is irrelevant.

People tell lies about the popularity of Rugby Union all the time.

"4 billion TV viewers" is one. The IRB is another. And these are parties that are stakeholders in Rugby Union

Don't be so indignant that other people may be stating misinformation about RU as well because they are fans of RL.

 

[Johns Magic]

No way in the world are the All Blacks more skillful than than the Kiwis

Carter is skillful yes, but i wouldn't class him higher than Jones, Collins would be great in league, through strength, not skill, and would never have the ball skills of Lauiti'iti, Williams, Solomona etc. Howlett, Rokocoko, Sivuvatu, they don't have the all round skills of Inu, Marshall, Fa'afili etc, they would get hammered underneath the towering bombs

Players like Carlos Spencer, Ma'a Nonu, Tana Umaga, Lauaki(who's better and bigger than his brother), Gear would be great league players as well.

Howlett plays fullback, he's fine under the high ball, as does Sivivatu. How can you say union wingers and fullbacks have less skill when taking high balls and kicking is such a huge part of their role?

Carter is a freak because he's great in all aspects of the game. He's a fantastic playmaker, great passing game, huge boot, goalkicker, and his running game is sublime. He'd make the perfect league five-eight, he's very similar to Lockyer in a lot of ways.

Sure some of the All Blacks wouldn't make it in league, but similarly some of the Kiwi's wouldn't make it in union. I'll tell you one thing, Luke Covell wouldn't go close to a Super 14 team.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Players like Carlos Spencer, Ma'a Nonu, Tana Umaga, Lauaki(who's better and bigger than his brother), Gear would be great league players as well.

Howlett plays fullback, he's fine under the high ball, as does Sivivatu. How can you say union wingers and fullbacks have less skill when taking high balls and kicking is such a huge part of their role?

Because when they attempt to catch, they drop the bal more times than catch.

It is well known that Union players can't catch the ball, it was the only plan Argentina had against France, just repeatingly put up a mid-field bomb, watch France drop it and then get a scrum in their half.

Carter is a freak because he's great in all aspects of the game. He's a fantastic playmaker, great passing game, huge boot, goalkicker, and his running game is sublime. He'd make the perfect league five-eight, he's very similar to Lockyer in a lot of ways.

He's a poor man's Lockyer in every way, and he showed that over the weekend.

he has a poor passing game, can't read gaps and is even a worse tackler than Lockyer.

Sure some of the All Blacks wouldn't make it in league, but similarly some of the Kiwi's wouldn't make it in union. I'll tell you one thing, Luke Covell wouldn't go close to a Super 14 team.

If geniuss like Mils Miliauna and Leon McDonald can make the All-Blacks, you know theer ain't much depth in the All-Blacks.

 

[Nook]

Johns Magic,

countries like Ireland, Wales and Argentina beat union's top five fairly regularly

When was the last time Ireland beat the All Blacks?

When was the last time Argentina beat the All Blacks?

If you are going to be a Union apologist you should at least try to base your arguments on actual fact.

The present Union WC has been close because of the woeful standard of play from the top sides. Classic Union, really: the 'good' team can't enough tries to beat the bad team which can kick goals, and the ref gives them all plenty of chances to have a breather.

The All Blacks are far and away the most talented side in Union - the fact they keep getting knocked out in world cups says volumes about the triumph of stoppages and negativity over skill and ability in the lesser code.

 

[Willow]

Thought I'd have a brief anti-Rugby rant on the heels of last night's game.

Don't you mean an anti-Union rant?

 

[Johns Magic]

Johns Magic,



When was the last time Ireland beat the All Blacks?

When was the last time Argentina beat the All Blacks?

If you are going to be a Union apologist you should at least try to base your arguments on actual fact.

Ok then, let me re-phrase:

"countries like Ireland, Wales and Argentina beat union's top five fairly regularly except for New Zealand"

The point still stands.

 

[Johns Magic]

Because when they attempt to catch, they drop the bal more times than catch.

It is well known that Union players can't catch the ball, it was the only plan Argentina had against France, just repeatingly put up a mid-field bomb, watch France drop it and then get a scrum in their half.

You clearly don't understand what up-and-unders are.

League wingers with hands like feet like Vatuvei wouldn't last a game on the wing in union. The idea of Vatuvei kicking a ball is actually rather humorous.

He's a poor man's Lockyer in every way, and he showed that over the weekend.

he has a poor passing game, can't read gaps and is even a worse tackler than Lockyer.

Carter went into the game injured and the All Blacks were leading before he went down and had to go off. You clearly didn't watch the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PgRJVx5NQU

Watch that for an example of Carter's passing game.

If geniuss like Mils Miliauna and Leon McDonald can make the All-Blacks, you know theer ain't much depth in the All-Blacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwAPmdUQwbw

Watch that if you want to see the skill of the All Blacks.

Funnily enough, Muliaina set up the first try by making a break then throwing an inside-offload.

That guy running over people is Jonah Lomu. He makes Vatuvei look like a little girl.

 

[fourplay]

Carter went into the game injured and the All Blacks were leading before he went down and had to go off. You clearly didn't watch the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PgRJVx5NQU

Watch that for an example of Carter's passing game.

Nothing at all special about that pass.. It was a basic man to man pass..

what made it look good and created the try was the player drifting out before he caught it while the ball was in the air to put himself into the gap.. which was created by the poor read on the decoy. Carter's pass was the least spectacular part of that whole play.

 

[JoeD]

There are only five teams worth a pinch of sh*t - NZ, Aus, SA, Eng and France - you will never see a side other than those five win a union WC as long as your arse points to the ground.

- Roopy

I hear this kind of comment a lot but it could be applied in exactly the same way to the biggest game in the world, football. How many different countries have ever won the football WC. Not more than 5 I don't think.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

I hear this kind of comment a lot but it could be applied in exactly the same way to the biggest game in the world, football. How many different countries have ever won the football WC. Not more than 5 I don't think.

7 teams have won the Football World Cup. 4 teams have won the Rugby World Cup. Given the amount of time the football WC has been played that is not such a big difference. However, the difference, as everyone knows, is the depth. There is NO POINT at all watching the Rugby WC until the Quarters. There are few upsets. However, the football World Cup ALWAYS throws up a few upsets in the group stages, and quite often a few random teams make it past the round of 16, into the Quarters, and sometimes the semis. That's usually where their run ends. And some of the best games of the Football WC are the group matches. Not because, like the Rugby WC, two minnows playing offers up some unpredictability, but because the teams are desperate to get out of their group and know that they need to win to do it, so they play great attacking football. The Rugby World Cup group games are a farce.

But that's all beside the point. I was just answering the above post.

What I like about Rugby - the fact the players need to think on their feet (even though often the bail-out answer is KICK IT!!), and that the forwards are forced to offload (in league the nature of the game dictates that they hold on to it WAY too much. The fact that Melbourne were premiers proves this).

What I laugh at in Rugby:

The outside backs, in defence and attack. Seriously, if Tahu played against England it wouldn't have mattered that our forwards were so sh*te, he would have carved them up with what little ball he was given.

No shoulder tackles: Give me a break!! See that Fijian get sin binned? Laughable.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I think I've seen Don Carter play two or three times.

I reckon the Sydney Bulls could use a bloke like that.

Although, if he ever got to the JBC Grand Final with them, I hear he's a big at choking.

They could rest him for that one....

 

[Godz Illa]

Fantastic blog on - of all places - the SMH site this morning.

http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2007/10/i_didnt_shed_a_tear.html

Enjoy!

 

[JW]

LOL, Gold!

 

[taipan]

At least union can actually have a World Cup that involves more than three nations.

In the league World Cup there's no way New Zealand and Australia would be knocked out by the semis. Who would England play in the grand-final? Malta? Lebanon?

Even if you don't like Union, you have to admire the competitiveness of their World Cup.

really ,thats why in 2008 the rlwc is having 10 nations,all of whom with local comps.
Anycase even union media and Campese admit there are only 4 or 5 union teams with a real chance to win.Competitiveness in the prelims goive me a break LOL>The IRB is considering reducing the number of teams due to LACK OF COMPETITIVENESS.
The old saying union hypes always wins over substance.

 

[Kurt Angle]

You clearly don't understand what up-and-unders are.

I understand the 'up and under' very well thank you.

It is a tactic you will exploit when you know the opposition is pressured when catching the ball.

When it involves RU players, thus guys who can't catch, every up and under is a pressure situation

League wingers with hands like feet like Vatuvei wouldn't last a game on the wing in union.

He is equally ridiculed in RL.

The idea of Vatuvei kicking a ball is actually rather humorous.

Ohh yeah, how many kicks in play did Lomu perform ?

What about guys like Ben Cohen?

Carter went into the game injured and the All Blacks were leading before he went down and had to go off. You clearly didn't watch the game.

:lol:

Clearly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PgRJVx5NQU

Watch that for an example of Carter's passing game.

That's not a pass that beat a man clown, the defender was taken out by a misread in defence and taken the interior decoy runner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwAPmdUQwbw

Watch that if you want to see the skill of the All Blacks.

Funnily enough, Muliaina set up the first try by making a break then throwing an inside-offload.

Try 1 - At the 0:34 stage, he just ran on the outside of the Australian outside centre, and the technical defecincy in RU defence could make up for it. Leading up to 0:38 the Australian fullback just crouched down one one knee letting Umaga stroll past.

Move 2 - At the 0:50 stagte, Rocoko just strolls between two english defenders, right in the middle. They just cat-scratch his shirt. He then completely steps the fullback then offloads. It doesn't show a try however. It probably ended up a penalty goal

Try 2 - at the 1:02 stage Rocokoko charges down a ball, regathers and runs 30 metres and in this time 2 south african backs just fall off tackles.

Try 4 - A try at 1:35 against Australia involving 3 Australian backs falling off VERY basic tackles.

Try 6 - A try at 1:50 with 4 English backs falling off Lomu

Try 7 - A try at 2:04 2 man overlap where Rocokoko beats guys for pace, then a chip and regather.. yes.. real skillz !!

Try 8 - A try starting at 2:11 with Daniel Carter just strolling through two Lions defenders who again cat-scratch at his shirt.. at 2:15, just look at THE SINGLE WORST ATTEMPTED TACKLE EVER MADE BY Red number 11

Try 9 - At 2:22, Rocokoko strolling through 2 defenders

Well the clip goes for 5 minutes, I'm not going through any more.

All the action so far is just a result of guys who can't play.

Sure, many of these happen in RL, but they don't make "the very best RL in 10 years" highlight reel.

RU's best, as showed by this clip is run of the mill NRL action.

That guy running over people is Jonah Lomu. He makes Vatuvei look like a little girl.

:lol:

Cutting jibe there.

 

[Perth Red]

As much as I hate Union they do have a wider spread of competitive Int sides. Whilst only 2 or 3 are likely to win it the next tier who can compete against those 2 or 3 is much larger than ours. the way they have groomed the likes of Argentina and Italy to be competitive is in stark contrast to the way we treat the likes of France and PNG who could be competitve with greater support.

 

[RalthFilthy]

So I never actually said that? Righto, dickhead.

Semantics:roll:, dickhead.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Players like Carlos Spencer, Ma'a Nonu, Tana Umaga, Lauaki(who's better and bigger than his brother), Gear would be great league players as well.

Howlett plays fullback, he's fine under the high ball, as does Sivivatu. How can you say union wingers and fullbacks have less skill when taking high balls and kicking is such a huge part of their role?

Carter is a freak because he's great in all aspects of the game. He's a fantastic playmaker, great passing game, huge boot, goalkicker, and his running game is sublime. He'd make the perfect league five-eight, he's very similar to Lockyer in a lot of ways.

Sure some of the All Blacks wouldn't make it in league, but similarly some of the Kiwi's wouldn't make it in union. I'll tell you one thing, Luke Covell wouldn't go close to a Super 14 team.

Nonu, Umaga and Lauaki all come form a league background, Umaga and Wiki were the junior kiwi centres in 1993.

Howlett doesn't play fullback, he plays wing, and he is average under the high ball. And taking high balls and kicking is not a huge part of their role either, sure, they get some, but generally the kicks go out, so they chase them for a quick throw in, and they field grounding ball. And on the kicking side of things, they again only play a small role doing that, generally if they are rushed. They normally get plenty of time and pass is back to the fullback who generally has a better boot.

Some of them would make it, but all round, league players have better ball and running skills, rugby players would probably win a kicking duel though.

On the Covell point, probably correct, but i do remember a few failed league players making it in the super 14, eg Duncan McRae, Lenny Beckett, Joel Wilson

 

[Nook]

Johns Magic,

Ok then, let me re-phrase:

So you're not going to answer the questions? Didn't think so.

"countries like Ireland, Wales and Argentina beat union's top five fairly regularly except for New Zealand"

Nah, what you mean is "despite my dopey mutterings about how competitive Union is at the top level vis a vis the all conquering Kangaroos in RL, proud Union nations Ireland and Argentina have never actually beaten the All Blacks."

The point still stands.

LOL

What point would that be?

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Fantastic blog on - of all places - the SMH site this morning.

http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2007/10/i_didnt_shed_a_tear.html

Enjoy!

amen. spread the gospel