Lockyer > Johns: no contest

[RABK]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,27359678-5018993,00.html?from=public_rss

Seems I have some unlikely allies in proposing Lockyer's total accumulated influence at Origin level ... two former NSW halves, Tommy and Turvey.

True ... they are a little slow to make these observations, but at least they've come forward.

"I don't think there's any doubt Locky has gone past Joey - he's dead set smashed him into ribbons.
If you look at the records, he's played more first-grade games, more Origin games, more Tests ... he blows Joey away, quite frankly.
He rates up among guys like Wally Lewis, Bob Fulton and Brett Kenny. He's made a fool of me. A year ago, I said Darren is better off retiring, but champions always make you look foolish and he's just got better and better.

So rocks for brains uses stats such as match appearances (longevity) as his argument for Lockyer > Johns but then says Lockyer is now alongside 3 players who had no more longevity than Johns of note.

"On his day, I don't think there was anyone better than Joey. But for longevity, no one can go past Locky"

Yup, and that's all it comes down. Unfortunately for people who are so desperate to put Lockyer over Johns league is an 80 minute game, not a 40650 minute game. Johns is the greatest club footballer of all time and overall a contender for GOAT. Lockyer is the longevity GOAT, but doesn't feature heavily in a player GOAT discussion.

Lockyer had the better career and achieved more with his teams, Johns as a player showed more and won more individual awards and once the current euphoria around Locky settles down Johns will rightly be remembered as the superior player.


No one touches Johns for Halfback of a GOAT team. Lewis should be worried about his spot.

 

[MSIH]

Lockyer's an out and out champion, and his continued performance at such a high level is second to none, but Johns was the better player imo. If in ten years I got the option of watching either Johns or Lockyer run around at their primes again for 80 minutes, I'd choose Johns every time hands down.

 

[AuDragon]

When will these Knights fans ever wake up and smell the roses? :sarcasm:

Johns had a fantastic, albeit shorter career, deeply stained by his drug use (no matter the reason behind it).

Lockyer owns Johns in every aspect of the game except the amount of MOM. His leadership qualities, toughness and charisma will see him become the next Immortal, which Johns will never be!

 

[Dazzat]

No one touches Johns for Halfback of a GOAT team. Lewis should be worried about his spot.

Spoken with no bias whatsoever :roll:

Love it how you disrespect your own former NSW greats as part of your argument and to make your point ... another true mark of a NSWer.

This whole argument gets down to what quality is more important - skill or longevity - and for me it's a no brainer. There are plenty with great skill, but few with longevity. Give me a player who will stick with you through thick and think EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. Give me someone who will stick with their club for a life-time over another who will hold their club and the NRL to ransom (by negotitating with rugby union) so they can get a better deal.

Give me someone who is level headed and remarkably even-tempered for a leader over someone who is up-down/down-up. These are the qualities in a player that a coach longs for in his players.

I believe this would be a fair mark:

Skill - Lockyer 8 Johns 9.
Longevity - Lockyer 10, Johns 5.

 

[Azkatro]

No one touches Johns for Halfback of a GOAT team. Lewis should be worried about his spot.

You're funny because you really believe what you say is an indisputable truth :lol:

 

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

Johns actions cost him

if no drugs + racist remarks

Johns > Whole RL World.

 

[Dazzat]

Johns actions cost him

if no drugs + racist remarks

Johns > Whole RL World.

Yes ... could be why when talent scouts look at young players, skills isn't the be-all-and-end-all.

Character, temperament, stickability ... they speak volumes.

If you read Wayne Bennett's observations about Lockyer, its his personal qualities that Bennett was always more impressed with.

I'm not sure how much Johns' medical condition has impacted on his public profile. Bi-polar is a serious condition.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

lol at Queenslanders calling anyone bias. You would be hard pressed to find any Parra fans say Stero was greater then Johns. But dare Quenstion Lockyer or Lewis and suggest that they arent the greatest.

 

[RABK]

I said Lewis should watch his spot cause the bloke you guys are blowing your loads over plays in the same position.

Azkatro you clown. :lol:

I didn't think QLD's would be able to pick up what i was suggesting.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Qld fans treat Lewis as dogma like any religious fundamentalist treats god or allah. But after years and years of pain of residency rules he was the key instigator in so much Qld pleasure in the 80's via his origin influence thus explainable.

Broncos fans are annoying with their Langer/Lockyer love. Knights fans equally with their Joey love. Parra fans on here are quiet about Kenny and Sterlo but I think that is because most fans on here are too young to remember them playing.

Yet Thurston gets quietly ignored...

I think Thurston, Kenny, and Lewis are the greatest halves to have played Origin. Their relative achivements surpass Joey and Langer - who I think their reputation is based on club not origin achievments. Langer was awesome when he had Lewis - when Lewis stepped down - series after series was lost by Langer. 1998 was the only series Langer can claim without Lewis involvement. Sure - there was a one off game and a drawn series - but many many more years of hurt.

Joey - his record as a origin halfback is not what Newcastle fans make it out to be. How many series he win as halfback? 05, 03 and.....

Ill never forget Kenny the bastard score a series winning try by double dummying then stepping by that time a completely flat footed bamboozled Wally Lewis. Lewis looked like a possum in the headlights. Man that kid could play - yet again - most on the forums I think are too young to remember him and only "remember" Sterlo because he is a commentator.

Lockyer gets the credit - I love this led Qld to 5 series wins when he only played in 4! Thurston for mine has been the real matchwinner difference when it mattered most.

So stuff the lot of ya!

Maybe I have ignored Daley's origin career unfairly.....

 

[AuDragon]

You guys do realise who made the comments in this article, don't you?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,27359678-5018993,00.html?from=public_rss

The most annoying part for some people here is that this is based on facts, not club / state biased opinion or simple dislike!

 

[Knights_Premiers]

As most people have said Lockyer for Influence, Johns for Skill. Why is Thurston even getting mentioned? He doesn't come close to either of them. He has played with the best Queensland side ever behind an awesome forward pack. Fair enough he has been a matchwinner but he consistently looks average when playing for the Cowboys. He can't get the best out of his side or make others look good like Johns could. I rate Thurston at a Scott Prince level only made to look better by players around him at rep level.

 

[Big Pete]

RABK - It doesn't speak volumes of their comprehension skills, rather your communication skills.

Lag - I think the problem with JT is that fans find it hard to seperate his club form from his Origin career.

That and also there are very few Cowboys fans...and they're not exactly vocal at this point in time.

 

[Doomednow]

So most NSWelshman think Johns is better and most Queensladers think Lockyer was better. No surprises there.

We won't be able to guage this properly until Lockyer has been out of the game for a while I think. Compare how the two are remembered post playing career.

EDIT: I think I have to add "as players", there will undoubtedly be a sh*tstorm from the Queenslanders about Joey being a drug addled racist every time this topic is brought up.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

EDIT: I think I have to add "as players", there will undoubtedly be a sh*tstorm from the Queenslanders about Joey being a drug addled racist every time this topic is brought up.

If it is its only the truth.

 

[Azkatro]

I said Lewis should watch his spot cause the bloke you guys are blowing your loads over plays in the same position.

Azkatro you clown. :lol:

I didn't think QLD's would be able to pick up what i was suggesting.

I wasn't referring to that part of your post, rather the part where you suggest nobody can touch Johns as the halfback in the so-called greatest team of all time. And that I find it quite amusing that you think this argument/belief is untouchable ...

 

[Non Terminator]

Unless you've seen every game dating back to 1908, it's just a guessing game historically.

 

[hellteam]

Qld fans treat Lewis as dogma like any religious fundamentalist treats god or allah. But after years and years of pain of residency rules he was the key instigator in so much Qld pleasure in the 80's via his origin influence thus explainable.

Broncos fans are annoying with their Langer/Lockyer love. Knights fans equally with their Joey love. Parra fans on here are quiet about Kenny and Sterlo but I think that is because most fans on here are too young to remember them playing.

Yet Thurston gets quietly ignored...

I think Thurston, Kenny, and Lewis are the greatest halves to have played Origin. Their relative achivements surpass Joey and Langer - who I think their reputation is based on club not origin achievments. Langer was awesome when he had Lewis - when Lewis stepped down - series after series was lost by Langer. 1998 was the only series Langer can claim without Lewis involvement. Sure - there was a one off game and a drawn series - but many many more years of hurt.

Joey - his record as a origin halfback is not what Newcastle fans make it out to be. How many series he win as halfback? 05, 03 and.....

Ill never forget Kenny the bastard score a series winning try by double dummying then stepping by that time a completely flat footed bamboozled Wally Lewis. Lewis looked like a possum in the headlights. Man that kid could play - yet again - most on the forums I think are too young to remember him and only "remember" Sterlo because he is a commentator.

Lockyer gets the credit - I love this led Qld to 5 series wins when he only played in 4! Thurston for mine has been the real matchwinner difference when it mattered most.

So stuff the lot of ya!

Maybe I have ignored Daley's origin career unfairly.....

Okay we get it you think Thurston is better. No one is ignoring him.

Thurston is in the middle of his career. When he gets towards the end people will reflect like they do with Lockyer and Johns. It's just not time yet, he's still got so much to achieve (premierships etc).

 

[ANTiLAG]

Okay we get it you think Thurston is better. No one is ignoring him.

Thurston is in the middle of his career. When he gets towards the end people will reflect like they do with Lockyer and Johns. It's just not time yet, he's still got so much to achieve (premierships etc).

What the heck do premierships have to do with Origin? I thought only Newcastle fans were this slow. Seems Broncos fans are too.

 

[MightyBronco]

I think Wally Lewis must have snubbed antilag somehow. He is forever going on about him. I reckon antilag was working at hungry jacks late one night and saw Wally and asked him for an autograph and Lewis subbed him. That or something similar.