Lockyer > Johns: no contest

[ANTiLAG]

I think Wally Lewis must have snubbed antilag somehow. He is forever going on about him. I reckon antilag was working at hungry jacks late one night and saw Wally and asked him for an autograph and Lewis subbed him. That or something similar.

What? I rate Wally in the top 3 halves of all time in origin yet you draw this ridiculous conclusion?

The shield was Kenny and Lewis arm wrestling - I merely reflect why it is not a picture of Lewis solely lifting the shield. You a youngster who has not seen the games or just illiterate and dull?

 

[hellteam]

What the heck do premierships have to do with Origin? I thought only Newcastle fans were this slow. Seems Broncos fans are too.

Righto then, my point still stands. Thurston will get his time in the sun, just not yet.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Righto then, my point still stands. Thurston will get his time in the sun, just not yet.

Err no it doesn't. I fail to see what more Thurston can achieve in Interstate football. Five series in a row - six - its all unprecedented territory.


And even if you cannot distignuish the difference and you persist in thinking club play is relevant then if not for Hayne, Thurston would have tied John's Dally M record last year. Fair achievement given both his youthful age and late start to club career.

 

[hellteam]

Err no it doesn't. I fail to see what more Thurston can achieve in Interstate football. Five series in a row - six - its all unprecedented territory.

Well you're having a go at me for bring up premierships, you're bringing up Thurston when the thread and discussion is clearly about Lockyer and Johns.

 

[user_nat]

Thurston is yet to captain his team at an origin level. I can't think of anything else for him to achieve.

Which isn't really a reflection of his playing abilities at all.

 

[mrpwnd]

Err no it doesn't. I fail to see what more Thurston can achieve in Interstate football. Five series in a row - six - its all unprecedented territory.

I take those 5 series wins with a grain of salt.
Why?
Its a matter of QLD playing with such a dominant team and NSW fielding out horrible players/combinations to counter them.
Until I see Thurston prove to be a matchwinner against evenly matched teams, then really, as far as i'm concerned he's just the better halfback of the modern era.
He showed in 2005 that he becomes transparent against a better side and showed this year that he can't lead a team around(cowboys win:loss ratio being better when he's off in origin duties.).

 

[ANTiLAG]

He showed in 2005 that he becomes transparent against a better side and showed this year that he can't lead a team around(cowboys win:loss ratio being better when he's off in origin duties.).

2005 was his DEBUT year as a starting player at CLUB level, let alone origin. You are an absolute moron as evidenced by almost all your posts.

Check out Thurston's Dally M achievements. If not for Hayne - Thurston would have tied Joey's dally m record last year. If he had the cattle Joey had at club - the Cows would have won in 05 - and made more grand finals. You think his 2 Dally M wins and nearly a third (second place last year) demonstrates he cannot lead his club side around a paddock? You're a moron.

As for this evenly matched teams jazz - 2008. Thurston singlehandley took the series of NSW. Check the tape. Thurston has been the dynamic key who has changed Qld's fortunes since extablishing himself as a the playmaker. If you cannot see that then you are geniused. His show and go alone has been the difference numerous times between the sides. 2006 - after game 1 NSW fans said Origin is dead. Step up JT again. This whole we are outgunned by a WAY BETTER side excuse only started last year by NSW fans.06,07, and 08 were "anyones" if not NSW favoured to win series as considered by NSW fans at the time. In fact even this year in game 1 NSW were favourites with the bookies. Oh - who was MOTM that game? JT.

But if you really want to compare Thurstons DEBUT origin series to Joey's.

1995 - the series that NSW could not lose. NSW with Joey as halfback lost it. And Joey had far more relative club experience before origin debut. Third time mrpwnd - you are a moron.

 

[Big Pete]

Even then, his Origin debut wasn't too shabby. Made a try saver on Rooney and threatened the Blues all night before kicking the equaliser before full-time to send the game into golden point.

Turn it up about 2008 though. Think he had a little help from Inglis, Folau, Civo and Price in winning that series.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Even then, his Origin debut wasn't too shabby. Made a try saver on Rooney and threatened the Blues all night before kicking the equaliser before full-time to send the game into golden point.

Turn it up about 2008 though. Think he had a little help from Inglis, Folau, Civo and Price in winning that series.

2008 game 3 - Who was the ONLY half on the Qld side after Prince's injury early on - How was the dead lock broken? JT's show and go. I think Thurston's post game interview which was described as "arrogant" and "cocky" cost him MOTM in that game.
2008 game 2 - JT wrecked havoc - yes on the back of the props. Who's pass to Inglis put Inglis on the outside of his marker?

 

[Springs]

Prince was injured in game 3 and the deadlock was broken by a Billy Slater try. Thurston did not win it alone. Game 1 he was the only half and they lost, possibly their worst performance for the past five years. Game 2 they had Prince and won 30-0.

 

[Johns Magic]

Check out Thurston's Dally M achievements. If not for Hayne - Thurston would have tied Joey's dally m record last year. If he had the cattle Joey had at club - the Cows would have won in 05 - and made more grand finals.

The Cowboys came one win away from the Grand-Final in 2004. They lost by 3 points in the major-semi. The squad was plenty good, what are you talking about?

You think his 2 Dally M wins and nearly a third (second place last year) demonstrates he cannot lead his club side around a paddock? You're a moron.

Actually, rather than his personal "achievements" from Daily Telegraph journos, how his team has actually gone might be a better reflection of how he can lead his club side around the paddock.

How have the Cowboys gone this year Lag? And wat about last year? And just throw the year before in for good measure if you will, just to get some more accuracy on how well he's led his club side around.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Prince was injured in game 3 and the deadlock was broken by a Billy Slater try. Thurston did not win it alone. Game 1 he was the only half and they lost, possibly their worst performance for the past five years. Game 2 they had Prince and won 30-0.

Who made teh line break that led to Slater's try and how they do it? Thurstons show and go.

Fair point on game 2 and 3 Prince injury - I'll edit.

 

[MightyBronco]

The shield was Kenny and Lewis arm wrestling - I merely reflect why it is not a picture of Lewis solely lifting the shield. You a youngster who has not seen the games or just illiterate and dull?

You've been calling Lewis overrated for months. You have an issue with him for sure. Why else would you go on and on about it. This thread is a great example.

And i'm not a 'youngster' and im far from illiterate and not at all dull. You sure dont take any form of criticism well, do you? Must be because you are old and cranky all the time.

 

[ANTiLAG]

The Cowboys came one win away from the Grand-Final in 2004. They lost by 3 points in the major-semi. The squad was plenty good, what are you talking about?

True -Cows had a good squad and the next year with Thurston they made the grand final. My point is there was no Harrogan, Johns, Gidley, Bedurus, Tahu, Simpson, mad dog, you know - past or future Australian reps bar LOD and "Sing".

Actually, rather than his personal "achievements" from Daily Telegraph journos, how his team has actually gone might be a better reflection of how he can lead his club side around the paddock.

How have the Cowboys gone this year Lag? And wat about last year? And just throw the year before in for good measure if you will, just to get some more accuracy on how well he's led his club side around.

Well clearly last year's Cows results was not to do with Thurstons form in any way according to Telegraph journos. But I repeat to you the point I made to mrpwnd - this is interstate thread. Keep it origin related and THurston blows Joey out of the water. You have conceded previously in this thread Thurston outshines Joey at origin.... having a change of heart?

 

[ANTiLAG]

You've been calling Lewis overrated for months. You have an issue with him for sure. Why else would you go on and on about it. This thread is a great example.

And? I still rate him in the top 3 players of origin all time. You make out like I think he was useless or something. But in this thread I did not go on and on about it. I just merely said why he is loved in Qld and then mentioned a brilliant play by Kenny.

You are very thin skinned.

 

[Johns Magic]

True -Cows had a good squad and the next year with Thurston they made the grand final.

So, you lied.

My point is there was no Harrogan, Bedurus, Tahu, mad dog, you know - past or future Australian reps bar LOD and "Sing".

Matt Bowen played for Australia in 2004 and many argue should have played a hell of a lot more for Australia.

Paul Rauhihi was an NZ rep and undeniably one of the best props in the game at the time.

They were two stars you conveniently left out, along with other good players like Paul Bowman, Aaron Payne, Ty Williams(pre-op) and Travis Norton.

Regardless, I don't want to get in a big debate about what player was how good etc. because it's all subjective and can be twisted whatever which way so I would rather point out the actual facts which illustrate how good the Cowboys side actually was that thurston walked into.

One try away from the grand-final in 2004, that's how "bad" the "cattle" was that Thurston had to work with. And that team has gradually slid further and further down the ladder the longer he's stayed, to the extent that they are dead last this year and have actually done better when Thurston isn't available.

Well clearly last year's Cows results was not to do with Thurstons form in any way according to Telegraph journos.

Translation: Thurston has individual brilliance, but has struggled to carry that over to the actual team's performance.

Alternative translation: You're an idiot who actually listens to Dally M markers from the Daily Telegraph who bend over backwards for any media darling, Johns included.

But I repeat to you the point I made to mrpwnd - this is interstate thread.

Sorry, I could have sworn this thread was about Lockyer and Johns. I'm pretty certain that's what it says in the thread title?

Keep it origin related and THurston blows Joey out of the water. You have conceded previously in this thread Thurston outshines Joey at origin.... having a change of heart?

Not having a change of heart at all.

But when you blatantly lie to suit your agenda, people have the right to call you up on those blatant lies.

 

[ANTiLAG]

So, you lied.

No I said if Thurston had the cattle Joey had he would have won. Newcastle had better players throughout the park. No lies.

Matt Bowen played for Australia in 2004 and many argue should have played a hell of a lot more for Australia.

Yet in 2005 he was not an Australian player nor has he been again. But okay - point made - Cows had "Sing", LOD and Bowen.

Paul Rauhihi was an NZ rep and undeniably one of the best props in the game at the time.

Harrogan or Rauhihi? I know who I'd want in my side. But Rauhihi is not an Australian rep is he. Shame he was only there for 2005 with Thurston - if he was younger and had stuck around - Cows may have done better. Still no Harrogan, though.

They were two stars you conveniently left out, along with other good players like Paul Bowman, Aaron Payne, Ty Williams(pre-op) and Travis Norton.

None of whom are Australian reps. Bowen was an oversight - not a lie. But I stand by my point.

Regardless, I don't want to get in a big debate about what player was how good etc. because it's all subjective and can be twisted whatever which way so I would rather point out the actual facts which illustrate how good the Cowboys side actually was that thurston walked into.

One try away from the grand-final in 2004, that's how "bad" the "cattle" was that Thurston had to work with. And that team has gradually slid further and further down the ladder the longer he's stayed, to the extent that they are dead last this year and have actually done better when Thurston isn't available.

Who's lying now? 2007 the cows finished where? Rauhihi retired what year? 2005 - Thurston only had him for one year and went to the GF. Fact is - the team he inherited in his DEBUT year of starting club play he took ONE STEP CLOSER TO GF win. Since then as you admit star players like Rauhihi have left. Thus team has gotten weaker. Bet he would love a Simpson or Harrogan in that pack lately instead of Webb!

Translation: Thurston has individual brilliance, but has struggled to carry that over to the actual team's performance.

Who cares - this is an interstate thread. Newcastle fans always chop Thurstons origin achievments down because he has not had the stellar club career Johns did. Well I'm saying he has played well at club - the dally m results demonstrate this AND it is still irrelevant.

Alternative translation: You're an idiot who actually listens to Dally M markers from the Daily Telegraph who bend over backwards for any media darling, Johns included.

Since when was "cocky" and "arrogant" Thurston a media darling?

Sorry, I could have sworn this thread was about Lockyer and Johns. I'm pretty certain that's what it says in the thread title?

Sorry I thought it was about the Cowboys cattle.

Not having a change of heart at all.

So you still think Thurston is better than Johns at Origin? Thanks.

But when you blatantly lie to suit your agenda, people have the right to call you up on those blatant lies.

hah - I forgot Bowen made the Australian team - no lie. The point is still valid. I never mentioned O'Davis nor Kennedy nor Muir nor Sargent nor Ainscough. One season is enough eh? You brought up Rauhihi which Thurston played with for one year. Overseas reps count too as you mentioned Rauhihi - so lets go with Carney as well.

So you take my Bowen internaional omission and I raise you internationals ODavis, Kennedy, Muir, Sargent, Ainscough and Carney on top of M Johns, Harrogan, Tahu, Gidley K, Gidley M, Sargent, Muir, Mad Dog, Carney, Perry, Robbie Ross and Bedarus. I'm sure there is more too. All those compared to Webb, LOD, Sing, Rauhihi, Mason and Bowen.

Yeah - you sure made a point. Lol.

Now lets investigate Johns stellar career further - 2005. Where did Newcastle finish? Oh yeah - last. Hold on - was that not Joey's best year for origin performances? But lets criticise Thurston for similar things, eh.

 

[Johns Magic]

No I said if Thurston had the cattle Joey had he would have won. Newcastle had better players throughout the park. No lies.

Complete lies actually, the Knights without Johns were atrocious whereas the Cowboys without Thurston almost made the grand-final.

Let's see you try and twist that.

Yet in 2005 he was not an Australian player nor has he been again. But okay - point made - Cows had "Sing", LOD and Bowen.

So where Johns had the ability to make his teammates look better and get rep jerseys they didn't deserve, Thyrston had the opposite effect?

Harrogan or Rauhihi? I know who I'd want in my side. But Rauhihi is not an Australian rep is he. Shame he was only there for 2005 with Thurston - if he was younger and had stuck around - Cows may have done better. Still no Harrogan, though.

Yeah it was Harragon who made Johns the dominant player he was in the 2000's...from the grandstand.

None of whom are Australian reps. Bowen was an oversight - not a lie.

Convenient for you, lucky you don't run a business where these 'oversights' would have you laughed at and lose you any credibility.

But I stand by my point.

So you think the Knights would have made a grand-final in 2001 without Johns playing a single game?

Who's lying now? 2007 the cows finished where?

So he walked into a team that was on the edge of a grand-final, and has proceeded to miss out on the finals series four times in six years since, often in spectacular fashion.

Rauhihi retired what year? 2005 - Thurston only had him for one year and went to the GF. Fact is - the team he inherited in his DEBUT year of starting club play he took ONE STEP CLOSER TO GF win.

f**k, he took them from 3rd to 2nd. Give the merkin a medal :lol:

He walked into a very good team, you lied. That's all there is to it.

Since then as you admit star players like Rauhihi have left. Thus team has gotten weaker. Bet he would love a Simpson or Harrogan in that pack lately instead of Webb!

They have also had great players like Luke O'Donnell, Willie Tonga and Matt Scott emerge/come to the club in that time.

And all of a sudden Steve Simpson is the greatest forward in the history of the world when it suits you.

Who cares - this is an interstate thread. Newcastle fans always chop Thurstons origin achievments down because he has not had the stellar club career Johns did. Well I'm saying he has played well at club - the dally m results demonstrate this AND it is still irrelevant.

Whatever you think the thread is about, it does not give you a free license to lie to suit yourself.

Since when was "cocky" and "arrogant" Thurston a media darling?

I'm sorry, read a newspaper. Every second article refers to Thurston as the best player in the game. You might want to check some of the front pages from when he re-signed with the Cowboys this year.

Sorry I thought it was about the Cowboys cattle.

Well this is probably why you've been talking such weird sh*t all thread, when you can't even read the title.

So you still think Thurston is better than Johns at Origin? Thanks.

You are absolutely deluded. Undeniably, if you think that is what I am disputing in the slightest.

hah - I forgot Bowen made the Australian team - no lie. The point is still valid. I never mentioned O'Davis nor Kennedy nor Muir nor Sargent nor Ainscough. One season is enough eh? You brought up Rauhihi which Thurston played with for one year. Overseas reps count too as you mentioned Rauhihi - so lets go with Carney as well.

So you take my Bowen internaional omission and I raise you internationals ODavis, Kennedy, Muir, Sargent, Ainscough and Carney on top of M Johns, Harrogan, Tahu, Gidley K, Gidley M, Sargent, Muir, Mad Dog, Carney, and Bedarus. All those compared to Webb, LOD, Sing, Rauhihi, Mason and Bowen.

Yeah - you sure made a point. Lol.

Firstly, don't forget to omit internationals like Willie Tonga or it might make you look like more of an idiot...oh wait, whoops. Sorry.

Secondly, do you really think the Knights would have made the grand-final at any point during Johns's career if he wasn't there? Because the Cowboys did, the year before Thurston turned up.

I don't care that much that I am going to soend days arguing with a complete idiot who continues to lie and twist the truth. But you saying Thurston walked into a sh*t team incapable of winning the competition is a complete lie, and you know it.

 

[Johns Magic]

Now lets investigate Johns stellar career further - 2005. Where did Newcastle finish? Oh yeah - last. Hold on - was that not Joey's best year for origin performances? But lets criticise Thurston for similar things, eh.

Nice little edit.

Clearly you were asleep during 2005, there's not much more that can be said about it, and it proves that you are indeed just being moronic for the sake of it.

 

[8Ball]

Knights fans being biased, broncos fans being biased, antilag making a complete fool of himself..

What else is new..