Lockyer > Johns: no contest

[ANTiLAG]

Ok cool.

Doesn't make him the better player, but if it settles the chip on your shoulder then I'm glad.

But you sound like a Raiders fan comparing Alan Tongue to Sonny-Bill Williams.

Thurston > Joey in origin.

Thurston has won 5 straight series with 2008's individual brilliance rivalling if not eclipsing Joey in 2005. Of course Joey did have some finer moments in origin. His 0-3 series loss in 1995 to the weakest ever Qld team to take the pitch was clearly a highlight. That brings his record to 1-4 as halfback against the superleague weakened Qld team in years 95 and 97. Then in 2003 he outplayed Qld halves Berrigan and Ikin. Of course 2005 he performed well - but he was against a rookie who was playing his first year of origin.

That 3 series wins to Joey -
1) 1997 - against a superleague Qld weakened team where his contribution was one win and a loss
2) 2003 - against Berrigan (not the hooker, not the centre but the halfback) and Ikin (the one leg version)
3) 2005 - Defintely Joey's best contribution.

Of course Thurston has had 5 Anderw Johns 2005's now.

Yet Joey still regins supreme at origin. Pffft. Thurston owns Joey. Those of you who say he has not won a grand final as a halfback - yeah well Joey never won back to back series in origin as a halfback. Thurston has gone back to back to back to back to back.

 

[Johns Magic]

Thurston > Joey in origin.

Thurston has won 5 straight series with 2008's individual brilliance rivalling if not eclipsing Joey in 2005. Of course Joey did have some finer moments in origin. His 0-3 series loss in 1995 to the weakest ever Qld team to take the pitch was clearly a highlight. That brings his record to 1-4 as halfback against the superleague weakened Qld team in years 95 and 97. Then in 2003 he outplayed Qld halves Berrigan and Ikin. Of course 2005 he performed well - but he was against a rookie who was playing his first year of origin.

That 3 series wins to Joey -
1) 1997 - against a superleague Qld weakened team where his contribution was one win and a loss
2) 2003 - against Berrigan (not the hooker, not the centre but the halfback) and Ikin (the one leg version)
3) 2005 - Defintely Joey's best contribution.

Of course Thurston has had 5 Anderw Johns 2005's now.

Yet Joey still regins supreme at origin. Pffft. Thurston owns Joey. Those of you who say he has not won a grand final as a halfback - yeah well Joey never won back to back series in origin as a halfback. Thurston has gone back to back to back to back to back.

Is there a reason you keep making this post over and over again? Or a reason you quoted my post as if it had any relevance?

I agree with you.

What do you want?

 

[Big Pete]

While we're on topic.

I find the way the 2 drawn results are addressed by NSW as rather interesting.

Let's be honest, those draws, were essentially Queensland wins as it allowed them to hold the shield in their state for a further 12 months.

 

[Johns Magic]

While we're on topic.

I find the way the 2 drawn results are addressed by NSW as rather interesting.

Let's be honest, those draws, were essentially Queensland wins as it allowed them to hold the shield in their state for a further 12 months.

Haha.

Calling a drawn series a draw is not really that interesting at all. They were draws. No team was better than the other in that series in terms of results.

Just because a draw means the incumbent gets to hold onto the shield doesn't mean it's not a drawn series, it just means a draw is more valuable for the incumbent. And in the context of discussing who outperformed who, it perfectly sums up that no team outperformed the other(results-wise) that series.

Trying to call a draw a win is interesting. It got the job done certainly, but they didn't win the series.

 

[Big Pete]

it just means a draw is more valuable for the incumbent.

Precisely my point.

When the reigning champions knows a draw will earn them as much as a win, why would they go out of their way to secure more points?

Personally, I see those two results as success' for Queensland. They were successful in defending their shield, end of.

 

[Aaron_sfas]

Thurston > Joey in origin.

Thurston has won 5 straight series with 2008's individual brilliance rivalling if not eclipsing Joey in 2005. Of course Joey did have some finer moments in origin. His 0-3 series loss in 1995 to the weakest ever Qld team to take the pitch was clearly a highlight. That brings his record to 1-4 as halfback against the superleague weakened Qld team in years 95 and 97. Then in 2003 he outplayed Qld halves Berrigan and Ikin. Of course 2005 he performed well - but he was against a rookie who was playing his first year of origin.

That 3 series wins to Joey -
1) 1997 - against a superleague Qld weakened team where his contribution was one win and a loss
2) 2003 - against Berrigan (not the hooker, not the centre but the halfback) and Ikin (the one leg version)
3) 2005 - Defintely Joey's best contribution.

Of course Thurston has had 5 Anderw Johns 2005's now.

Yet Joey still regins supreme at origin. Pffft. Thurston owns Joey. Those of you who say he has not won a grand final as a halfback - yeah well Joey never won back to back series in origin as a halfback. Thurston has gone back to back to back to back to back.

the bloke was plagued by serious injury. so he missed a few year of origin all together. and lets keep in mind thurston is a speedhump in defence. lockyer is at times to...

were talking about football here. and the best footballer i have ever seen in andrew johns. and that is the only ranking i am 100% on, and 2nd onwards in very contestable.

he's a major doosh off the field... but on it the bloke was a magician

 

[72Gav]

Johns record lost credibility once it came out that he was on the "gear" for 10 years. How would he have handled some very stressful situations if he hadn't been under the influence.

For such a good halfback he couldn't force Geoff Toovey from being the Origin Halfback and Johns had to play Hooker. Best player in the world and he couldn't even play in his preferred position.

Lockyer by miles

 

[Johns Magic]

Precisely my point.

That it was a valuable draw. Ok.

When the reigning champions knows a draw will earn them as much as a win, why would they go out of their way to secure more points?

Haha!

Personally, I see those two results as success' for Queensland. They were successful in defending their shield, end of.

Successful in defending the shield. Not successful in winning the series.

They were not the better team, and they didn't win the series. End of.

 

[Big Pete]

No seriously, why should they seriously look to risk themselves and try and score more points, when a draw is as good as a win?

 

[Johns Magic]

No seriously, why should they seriously look to risk themselves and try and score more points, when a draw is as good as a win?

Firstly, did you watch Game 3 2002? You might be surprised by the way it actually happened. Queensland risked themselves just to get the draw.

Secondly, drawing a series can make it a successful campaign. It doesn't mean you won the series. And it doesn't mean you were the better team.

 

[Big Pete]

You mean the game where we let Lote Tuqiri take the final conversion when he was obviously having a dud night?

Please, when a draw is as good as a win a draw will always favor the reigning victors.

 

[Coaster]

You mean the game where we let Lote Tuqiri take the final conversion when he was obviously having a dud night?

Please, when a draw is as good as a win a draw will always favor the reigning victors.

Exactly right, Tallis was going to take that shot at goal ffs. We only had to draw to win the series, everyone knew that including you dimwitted cockroaches, now get back under the damn fridge where you belong until it's time to smack you again

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Think of a draw as a double count out in wrestling. The champion cant lose the title that way. Of course the champion is going to come out feeling like a winner.

Back on topic.

Lockyer played in a time where (when he was five eight) he was the best half that Qld had to pick from by a mile. Where as Johns had to contend with Toovey (who was a very good player), Daley, Fittler, Kimmorley, etc etc. He didnt dominate in Origin until there was no Daley or Fittler. And NSW did just fine with Fittler and Daley dominating. If Johns was our only go to guy (like he virtually was in 05) then he had more resonsibility on his shoulders then like Lockyer did.

Its kind of like winning the Dally M medal with the Melbourne Storm, there are so many good players to take the points for each match, where as for a team like Parramatta or the Cowboys, there is really only 1 player likely to win the points.

 

[timka4]

Lockyer played in a time where (when he was five eight) he was the best half that Qld had to pick from by a mile. Where as Johns had to contend with Toovey (who was a very good player), Daley, Fittler, Kimmorley, etc etc.

agreed. I rate Lockyer and Johns in pretty much the same skill set

 

[slammingsam]

In my eyes - if your a young halfback in the NRL..if you are half as good as Johns then you are a fairly good player because Johns was the deadset master.

I would have Lockyer ahead of him in Origin/International performances though just through his inspiration.

 

[Dazzat]

The defining of Lockyer: Five years ago just about everyone said he should step-down from the Queensland team. The Queensland selectors themselves have said he was one loss from being dropped.

And here we are today.

I thought he should have called it quits at the start of this year.

Humble pie is delicious. Johns worshipers should try it.

 

[Apey]

I liked his pass to Purtell tonight :sarcasm:

 

[8Ball]

These threads should be banned. ;-)

 

[Big Pete]

Lockyer played in a time where (when he was five eight) he was the best half that Qld had to pick from by a mile.

I suppose Prince and Cronk are nobodies.

 

[Big Pete]

Lockyer played in a time where (when he was five eight) he was the best half that Qld had to pick from by a mile.

I suppose Prince and Cronk are nobodies.