Luciano Leilua

[SBD82]

Yep I think the big criticism of lucky has been his approach to preparation and come to think of it it was a criticism of his brother too could take the game by the nuts if they only take the off field side of the game more seriously can only hope the coaching staff identify that and instill that in him

Except that it seems that they have. And he is reaping the rewards.

WTF is wrong with this place?

 

[possm]

After the bloke has cut himself down from 130kg to 112kg this place can still find a reason to complain.

It’s an absolute disgrace in here sometimes.

Leilua's effort with weight loss is to be commended however, there is more to fitness than just weight loss. If the coaching staff have problems with his fitness standard right now, rather than complain about it or threaten non-selection surely it would be a more positive move to have DONE something to help him be ready for round 1.

 

[SBD82]

Leilua's effort with weight loss is to be commended however, there is more to fitness than just weight loss. If the coaching staff have problems with his fitness standard right now, rather than complain about it or threaten non-selection surely it would be a more positive move to have DONE something to help him be ready for round 1.

If you think that they haven’t DONE anything to help him be ready for round 1 then I’m afraid I can’t help you.

 

[possm]

If you think that they haven’t DONE anything to help him be ready for round 1 then I’m afraid I can’t help you.

I'm sure the coaching/fitness staff have done something to help Leilua but unfortunately, like most things they do, it was not enough and falls short of their own expectations.

 

[SBD82]

I'm sure the coaching/fitness staff have done something to help Leilua but unfortunately, like most things they do, it was not enough and falls short of their own expectations.

He lost over 20% of his body weight as compared to the same time last year.

What would be a number that wouldn’t, in your mind, fall short of expectations?

 

[Old Timer]

If you think that they haven’t DONE anything to help him be ready for round 1 then I’m afraid I can’t help you.

He lost over 20% of his body weight as compared to the same time last year.

What would be a number that wouldn’t, in your mind, fall short of expectations?

Much of the late commentary comes from dragonsamy's post #65
As he is close to the squad one would think there is merit in what he said.
If Luc has lost 20% of his bodyweight compared to last year that may or may not be a good thing as to his ability but for many the statement that he is not yet fit is disturbing especially when compared to other youngish big units running around at other clubs.

 

[possm]

Much of the late commentary comes from dragonsamy's post #65
As he is close to the squad one would think there is merit in what he said.
If Luc has lost 20% of his bodyweight compared to last year that may or may not be a good thing as to his ability but for many the statement that he is not yet fit is disturbing especially when compared to other youngish big units running around at other clubs.

So Host selected over Leilua, please explain why. Is it greater skills and talent or is it fitness?

 

[SBD82]

Much of the late commentary comes from dragonsamy's post #65
As he is close to the squad one would think there is merit in what he said.
If Luc has lost 20% of his bodyweight compared to last year that may or may not be a good thing as to his ability but for many the statement that he is not yet fit is disturbing especially when compared to other youngish big units running around at other clubs.

This one?

Frank
I think he will be more used off the bench for us at the beginning of the year. Hopefully you'll have his minutes increased as he's getting fitter and fitter during the year.

It says nothing about him being “not yet fit”.

It says that “he’s getting fitter and fitter”.

The process of losing weight and maintaining fitness is a delicate one. Obviously Luc needed to strip a lot of fat, which, regardless of the amount of exercise that is being done, is impossible to do without reducing calorie intake.

Reduction in calorie intake will have an effect on energy levels, which can impact fitness. So it’s usually a maintenance process while losing the weight.

From reading Samy’s post, it seems that he has gone through the weight loss, remained fit, and is getting fitter and fitter.

 

[SBD82]

So Host selected over Leilua, please explain why. Is it greater skills and talent or is it fitness?

I’d say it’s about team balance.

Host is a conventional edge backrower. Not flashy, but a hardworker who plays long minutes, defends well, and runs good lines.

Leilua has skills that are more useful as the game opens up, but his defense (improved again last season) is not at Host’s level for the opening speed of an NRL game.

 

[Old Timer]

This one?

It says nothing about him being “not yet fit”.

It says that “he’s getting fitter and fitter”.

The process of losing weight and maintaining fitness is a delicate one. Obviously Luc needed to strip a lot of fat, which, regardless of the amount of exercise that is being done, is impossible to do without reducing calorie intake.

Reduction in calorie intake will have an effect on energy levels, which can impact fitness. So it’s usually a maintenance process while losing the weight.

From reading Samy’s post, it seems that he has gone through the weight loss, remained fit, and is getting fitter and fitter.

IMO he is either fit or not fit in this circumstance.
1st game of the season, if he was required to start and play long minutes then he should be in a position to do that, but as samy points out he needs game time so that means IMO he doesn't have the required fitness.
You can make all the arguments you like as for the reasons why he is where he is but the one thing that is evident is that he is not in a position to make the starting position his own and as a young professional footballer that IMO is poor especially when the opportunity is there and the club is heavily relying on you to perform.

 

[SBD82]

IMO he is either fit or not fit in this circumstance.
1st game of the season, if he was required to start and play long minutes then he should be in a position to do that, but as samy points out he needs game time so that means IMO he doesn't have the required fitness.
You can make all the arguments you like as for the reasons why he is where he is but the one thing that is evident is that he is not in a position to make the starting position his own and as a young professional footballer that IMO is poor especially when the opportunity is there and the club is heavily relying on you to perform.

All forwards play longer or shorter minutes based on their fitness, and according to the needs of the team.

For example, Vaughan is likely to play 40-50 minutes of the game on the weekend. The fact that he doesn’t play 80 is not a reflection on him being “not fit”.

Do you think there is any way that the performance staff could have turned Luc into an 80 minute player in the offseason?

 

[The Damo]

Just to add - match fitness is important, and builds over time on top of base level fitness,especially for forwards. Guys like Nathan Brown at the Eels, or Taumalolo, or Fifita, often increase their minutes gradually through a season. That doesn’t mean they weren’t terrifyingly fit to start with. That was how I took Dragonsamy’s post, that Luc has gotten himself to the base level needed and with game time will build it over time.

 

[Old Timer]

All forwards play longer or shorter minutes based on their fitness, and according to the needs of the team.

For example, Vaughan is likely to play 40-50 minutes of the game on the weekend. The fact that he doesn’t play 80 is not a reflection on him being “not fit”.

Do you think there is any way that the performance staff could have turned Luc into an 80 minute player in the offseason?

No I don't ever see him as an 80 minute player.
Luc has ability and promise but IMO lacks dedication and the fact he had to lose big weight last year and as you posted 20% this year it indicates to me that he has a problem.
He used to get away with it juniors and the U/20 grade but cant get away with it now.
His minutes according to samy are somewhat restricted at the front of the season and bigger minutes will only come with time and again I find it hard to believe that he isn't 100% ready to go right now.
My other fear is also that he might end up like Kasiano lighter and so called fitter but useless.

 

[SBD82]

No I don't ever see him as an 80 minute player.
Luc has ability and promise but IMO lacks dedication and the fact he had to lose big weight last year and as you posted 20% this year it indicates to me that he has a problem.
He used to get away with it juniors and the U/20 grade but cant get away with it now.
His minutes according to samy are somewhat restricted at the front of the season and bigger minutes will only come with time and again I find it hard to believe that he isn't 100% ready to go right now.
My other fear is also that he might end up like Kasiano lighter and so called fitter but useless.

How you can believe that a bloke who has lost 20% of his body weight lacks dedication is beyond me. That’s an immense effort and I think he and the performance staff should be commended for it.

I’ve also had some fears about the Kasiano comparison. I think the difference may be that Luc’s game has more of a skillful aspect and is on the edge, where Kasiano’s main strength was that he was a big body in the middle.

 

[Old Timer]

How you can believe that a bloke who has lost 20% of his body weight lacks dedication is beyond me. That’s an immense effort and I think he and the performance staff should be commended for it.

I’ve also had some fears about the Kasiano comparison. I think the difference may be that Luc’s game has more of a skillful aspect and is on the edge, where Kasiano’s main strength was that he was a big body in the middle.

You are conveniently missing the point for some reason.
I am not demeaning that he lost 20% or the dedication to do that I am protesting the fact that he had to do it and he has no dedication to being disciplined in the offseason.
Not sure you know much about boxing or jockeys but constantly having to lose weight and slim down proves detrimental in the end.
Luc needs to stay in reasonably good shape and not balloon out during the offseason and he needs to be dedicated about that so he comes into the season toned and not weakening himself by desperately losing 10 or 15 kgs.
Question
if you had the choice of keeping Luc or getting David Fifitta, Payne Haas or Tavita Pangai Jnr what would you do?

 

[possm]

You are conveniently missing the point for some reason.
I am not demeaning that he lost 20% or the dedication to do that I am protesting the fact that he had to do it and he has no dedication to being disciplined in the offseason.
Not sure you know much about boxing or jockeys but constantly having to lose weight and slim down proves detrimental in the end.
Luc needs to stay in reasonably good shape and not balloon out during the offseason and he needs to be dedicated about that so he comes into the season toned and not weakening himself by desperately losing 10 or 15 kgs.
Question
if you had the choice of keeping Luc or getting David Fifitta, Payne Haas or Tavita Pangai Jnr what would you do?

I think that there would be a lot of merit in the idea of alloctating each player in the top 30 a highly qualified mentor who could work with the coaching/fitness staff to help his player reach and maintain fitness and skills that are required. They should be highly qualified professional mentors paid for by SGI.

 

[SBD82]

You are conveniently missing the point for some reason.
I am not demeaning that he lost 20% or the dedication to do that I am protesting the fact that he had to do it and he has no dedication to being disciplined in the offseason.
Not sure you know much about boxing or jockeys but constantly having to lose weight and slim down proves detrimental in the end.
Luc needs to stay in reasonably good shape and not balloon out during the offseason and he needs to be dedicated about that so he comes into the season toned and not weakening himself by desperately losing 10 or 15 kgs.
Question
if you had the choice of keeping Luc or getting David Fifitta, Payne Haas or Tavita Pangai Jnr what would you do?

That’s my point though. He remained in good shape and didn’t balloon this off season, which I think he deserves credit for. Completely agree that it’s unhealthy to constantly be dropping weight, but he is a young man with a couple of off seasons under his belt who has demonstrated this offseason the professionalism that we expect. I’d say that points to maturity and dedication. Hopefully he keeps it up.

With regard to your question, what role are you looking at? Haas is a middle. And like Luc, TPJ and Fifita have both been named on the bench for the opening game. They were beaten for the edge spots by Alex Glenn and Jaydn Sua.

Given that they are already playing Gillet at Lock, I’d say it’s likely that TPJ will play middle, and If they replace an edge it will be Fifita who comes on. So really the only like for like comparison at the moment is Fifita.

I rate Fifita, I think he will be very good. At this stage Luc has more runs on the board and Fifita is only a young gun with huge potential. I personally believe that potential will translate to a starting position soon, but there have been many young players with great potential who haven’t made the transition to a full season.

If we were to chase Fifita it wouldn’t be as a replacement for Luc, it would be for Tariq or Host (Tyson if we have JDB).

Would you trade him for any of those? At the same price I’d take Fifita over Host, but they are not going to be the same price.

 

[SBD82]

I think that there would be a lot of merit in the idea of alloctating each player in the top 30 a highly qualified mentor who could work with the coaching/fitness staff to help his player reach and maintain fitness and skills that are required. They should be highly qualified professional mentors paid for by SGI.

Sounds like a mess.

 

[Old Timer]

That’s my point though. He remained in good shape and didn’t balloon this off season, which I think he deserves credit for. Completely agree that it’s unhealthy to constantly be dropping weight, but he is a young man with a couple of off seasons under his belt who has demonstrated this offseason the professionalism that we expect. I’d say that points to maturity and dedication. Hopefully he keeps it up.

With regard to your question, what role are you looking at? Haas is a middle. And like Luc, TPJ and Fifita have both been named on the bench for the opening game. They were beaten for the edge spots by Alex Glenn and Jaydn Sua.

Given that they are already playing Gillet at Lock, I’d say it’s likely that TPJ will play middle, and If they replace an edge it will be Fifita who comes on. So really the only like for like comparison at the moment is Fifita.

I rate Fifita, I think he will be very good. At this stage Luc has more runs on the board and Fifita is only a young gun with huge potential. I personally believe that potential will translate to a starting position soon, but there have been many young players with great potential who haven’t made the transition to a full season.

If we were to chase Fifita it wouldn’t be as a replacement for Luc, it would be for Tariq or Host (Tyson if we have JDB).

Would you trade him for any of those? At the same price I’d take Fifita over Host, but they are not going to be the same price.

Point form might be easier sorry about the jumbled order.

1. If he didn't balloon out how is it he had to lose 10% and what body weight is he going to now play at?
2. If he didn't ballon out then he was obviously overweight last year to have to lose weight this year or am I wrong in assuming this?
3. Luc may well end up in the middle that's why I included TPJ and I rate all 3 of the Broncos forwards as having shown more in a brief time than Luc has shown over what is now a fair bit more time than people give credit for. I also think they are all a bit tougher and keener than Luc.
4. Yep I would trade him for any one of them and would then depending on who we got re jig the rest of our forward pack.
5. I really want Luc to succeed but IMO he has to do much more, more often and have a thread that talks about what he is doing week in week out and not about the few great things he does now and then. In simple terms posts that have no excuses attached to them.
6. Re Host, I am somewhat a fan of him. I am not sure he has been properly developed or utilised but he is a good honest footballer who doesn't shirk his workload and is also a player that is badly under utilised in attack. He is a good hole runner with very good PC metres in him but unfortunately our halves don't seem to be able to understand that and that is also applicable to their usage of Frizz.
7. Re the Broncos starting edge spots going to Alex Glenn and Jaydn Sua it is a fair point but I also believe that the Broncos coach leaves our for dead in how to read your opposition and get the best make up for your team for that game. I believe the Bronco's starting team might change a fair bit depending on who they play.

 

[blacksafake]

The "slowish progression" you refer to I think is the problem at SGI. Which of the many assistant coaches, high performance staff, consultants, high profile blowins such as Luke Phillips and Mick Crawley at this club is responsible for progressing Luc, Host, Dufty, Field, Kerr & co from ISP/bench NRL to starting NRL because it seems to me they're not doing a very good job compared to other clubs (eg Campbell Graham and Cameron Murray at Souths- Latrell Mitchell, Joseph Manu and Victor Radley at the Roosters). Host and Luc in particular have been hyped as excellent future starting players for two to three years but they're still not performing at NRL level consistently.

We all know Mary needs to go but a lot of support staff need to follow him out the door.

Exactly.
How many players, especially juniors have really gone to another level under the current coaching staff.
I heard Scott Sattler on the radio last night talking about the broncos juniors getting plenty of opportunity & he mentioned a 19yo front rower whose name escapes me that he says will at some stage this season play NRL .Could you see L plate giving a 19yo front rower a game? I can't.