Matthew Elliott

[jed]

Because of us being a Non-Sydney team, in a Sydney based comp, we struggle to bring players from other clubs to us.

oh! that explains how the brumbies manage to get such great players playing for them!

kris_man, you are comparing a competition where players have 15 clubs to choose from to one where players have only 3 options. Hardly a good comparison.

On one hand, in the NRL, there are 1 metro and 1 regional team in Qld, 1 in NZ, 1 in Melbourne, 1 in regional NSW, 1 in the ACT, and 9 in the greater-Sydney area. And while there's a decent amount of player movement between the 9 Sydney clubs, there is a lot less with most of the other clubs - Canberra, Newcastle, NZ Warriors and Brisbane traditionally use a lot of talent from the local area, due to the problems involved in convincing players to make the big move, whereas for a player to transfer from let's say Canterbury to Cronulla, it's not necessary to uproot your entire life and that of your family. But for a Sydney-based player to move to Canberra, this not only packing all your belongings, but also leaving your family and friends behind, and in the case of players with wives/fiances/girlfriends, jobs have to be found for the "significant other". So why would you want to? There's plenty of other clubs that are a lot closer, surely one of them will have a contract available. And that's before you even get to the issue of weather.

For a Super 12 player, they have 3 options only - Waratahs, Brumbies or Reds. And the season is a lot shorter too - 13 weeks plus 2 weeks of finals. Why bother moving to Canberra? You could just check into a hotel for 4 months. The NRL season on the other hand is 26 weeks, plus another 4 weeks of finals.

Comparing these 2 competitions is, to quote a cliche, like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[azza]

Why is that funny? Wheres your reason for that?

Provide reasons all you want. But when you do, make sure their VALID.

My reasons - they're valid. If you can't accept them that's your issue to deal with. I could just as easily say you're reasons are not valid but it's all a matter of opinion.

It's funny because you can never ever accept a shred of criticism against the coach. It is indeed like a record on repeat. Fair enough some of it may be going over the top but to suggest by your constant bagging of anyone who wants to give it to him that Elliot is exempt from responsibility for the team's performance is laughable.

 

[BAY72]

have not been on here for a while and at the moment am to drunk and am too tired to read 4 pages, but ...

these playeres are PROFECINAL footballers, thje have probably played football since ther were 5. they have all week to practice, and come the weekend if they throw a forward pass or miss a tackle then it is thir fault and no the coaches.

Technicaly a this level they shouldn't need a coach they should know the game inside-OUT.
the Fact that the play like Shit week after week, When all the have to do is perform for 80 minutes per week, is perthetic!!

If YOU, in your job performed that badly week after week, (ask your self would you still be the next week!!).
HELL NO!!

The Coach will always and should always carry some responsiblilty But ultimlty the players Have been doing this for long enough to know how to play the game, and should carry most of the blame for the poor display.

 

[edabomb]

have not been on here for a while and at the moment am to drunk and am too tired to read 4 pages, but ...

these playeres are PROFECINAL footballers, thje have probably played football since ther were 5. they have all week to practice, and come the weekend if they throw a forward pass or miss a tackle then it is thir fault and no the coaches.

Technicaly a this level they shouldn't need a coach they should know the game inside-OUT.
the Fact that the play like sh*t week after week, When all the have to do is perform for 80 minutes per week, is perthetic!!

If YOU, in your job performed that badly week after week, (ask your self would you still be the next week!!).
HELL NO!!

The Coach will always and should always carry some responsiblilty But ultimlty the players Have been doing this for long enough to know how to play the game, and should carry most of the blame for the poor display.

A drunkard makes more sense than the rest of you!!!! (apart from the spelling) I'm not on the night shift, just a student who can't sleep.

 

[greeneyed]

Players should know how to play. Yes, true to some extent. But players never stop developing and learning. You often hear very senior players in a club where the coach changes and they tell about new things that they are being taught/new perspectives that they are being given by the new coach. If the players could coach themselves, we wouldn't have coaches.

Footballers are just like people in other jobs never stop developing. In my own job, one of my own responsibilities is to coach, guide and mentor the other less experienced staff. To set the course, develop teams and work systems so that the job gets done. I also take responsibility when something goes wrong, even though I might have known nothing about it. And then I have to get in and help fix it.

Same in football with the coach. He is responsible for developing the playing strategies, structures, helping the young players develop their games, etc etc. Fixing it when it is going wrong.

I have to say that our coach has faced some very significant challenges and difficulties this year. Injuries have been high, suspensions have affected us significantly as well eg Wiki suspended for a total of 8 games. A number of players' form has been wildly variable. There were disruptions due to player movements, which have affected team cohesion. And there are weaknesses/lack of depth in some positions.

But, the team's attempt to play a new more attacking style has failed - the attacking game plan has not been well designed as it is highly predictable, nor has it been well executed. Our defensive patterns are fragile. Selections of players have been often mystifying - there has not been sufficient pressure placed on non performers in the team, through the threat of being sent to PL, and there has not been sufficient opportunity given to some of those performing in PL to play consistently in the upper grades and develop to first grade standard. The coach himself admitted that this season he didn't participate actively enough in the player retention/signing processes, and it didn't happen early enough. And he does have to take some responsibility for some of our past failed signings (eg Drew) and retentions (eg Mick Monaghan).

Clearly, it is not all the coach's fault, how performance has gone this season. But he must take some responsibility, shouldn't he?

 

[Bay56]

I have to say that our coach has faced some very significant challenges and difficulties this year. Injuries have been high, suspensions have affected us significantly as well eg Wiki suspended for a total of 8 games.

Codswolop greeneyed ... we have had a fairly good run with injuries and certainly no more than teams who have coped fairly well under similar circumstances.

We played the injury depleted sharks at Bruce with an almost full stength team and came away with an uninspiring win. We played an injury riddled storm last week and were beaten soundly. We play teams which we are expected to beat comfortably and either lose or scrap in with uninspiring wins. If it wasnt for three lucky victories by a solitary point we would be competing for the wodden spoon.

Irrespective of all that we play a style of football that most experts you hear find difficult to understand .. we have nothing in the bag when attacking the opposition line. We are in the bottom third for both attack and defence. All this from a coach in his 3/4th year of a five year plan ... lets see what the 5th year has in store for us.

I will always come back to this "do you think we would be in the situation we currently find ourselves if we had a combination of Gould/Stuart running this club". I know what my answer to this question is and I think I know yours.

 

[lotm]

i'm just interested to hear what the critics would say if/when we become a force in 2005?

i'm also interested to hear what the elliot enthusiasts would say if/when we have a poor season in 2005?

*changes made at bay's suggestion*

 

[paulquinn49]

bit late for that, i assume they would be talking about the other 8 teams who cheated the cap

 

[Bay56]

i'm just interested to hear what the critics would say if/when we become a force in 2004?

I hardly think the next couple of weeks is going to change our fortunes for '04 :lol: :lol:

I would add to your question "I'm interested to hear what the optimists would say if/when we had a poor 2005".

If you are talking about 2005 .... I'll put my reputation on the line and state I think it is going to be very ordinary and thus I will be bagging coach/management as I have done this season and in seasons gone by.

I will also state that my ego aint that big that I would not admit that I was wrong if by some circumstance we are premiership contenders next season.

 

[lotm]

I will also state that my ego aint that big that I would not admit that I was wrong if by some circumstance we are premiership contenders next season

that's all i was looking for.

 

[Bay56]

I will also state that my ego aint that big that I would not admit that I was wrong if by some circumstance we are premiership contenders next season

that's all i was looking for.

I have never backed away from this, even though some would make out that I have some morbid fascination with our current form ... at the end of the day we may be optimists, realists or fence sitters but one thing for certain we are all losers.

 

[Raider Azz]

I will always come back to this "do you think we would be in the situation we currently find ourselves if we had a combination of Gould/Stuart running this club". I know what my answer to this question is and I think I know yours.

I would probably end myself if Phil Gould was coaching this club.

 

[BAY72]

Clearly, it is not all the coach's fault, how performance has gone this season. But he must take some responsibility, shouldn't he?

Definately.
My point was only to say that the players are just as responsible if not more than the coach. And I agree with you of course we need a coach, they can make or break a team. But it is not the Coaches fault for forward passes or missed tackles; he can't be on the field to make those mistakes. But he is responsible for the game plan, picking players, attacking plays, defensive plays and just simply mentally preparing the team for each weeks game, and I'll admit that hasn't been happening.

But professional players should not be making amateur mistakes, (and as I said before) especially when they have been playing the game for as long as they have.

Apologies for the spelling, #-o reading that again this morning was a real laugh :lol:

 

[Steven Gerrard]

:lol: :lol: Gotta love the power of alcohol

 

[Bay56]

But he is responsible for the game plan, picking players, attacking plays, defensive plays and just simply mentally preparing the team for each weeks game, and I'll admit that hasn't been happening.

But professional players should not be making amateur mistakes, (and as I said before) especially when they have been playing the game for as long as they have.

Your first sentance is absolutely correct (boyo, nice list, is there anything else a coach does ) .... if that was evident your second sentance would not enter the equation.

 

[Raider_69]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
love ya work BAY25

 

[thickos]

After sifting through the last few pages of this I have to say that the club is in good hands with a bunch of supporters like us. I don't know of many other people who care so passionately about a football club.

Anyways, what I think is redundant is the concept of trying to apportion blame onto the shoulders of solely management, or the coach, or the players. After expectations were so high to commence this season, clearly the way in which it has unfolded is a major disappointment. YES, management can be blamed in hindsight for not signing anyone last year, I'm of the belief you need to bring someone (at least one, or a good crop of kids) to the club to keep the place fresh. That plus kick out some dead wood.

YES, Elliott must take some blame. We had a confident, well-drilled footy team last year. I think he is the victim of his 2003 success - he believed other clubs would have worked us out, so he thought we had to change a winning formula. Incorrect IMO. You may know that the Roosters are a good team for example - trying to stop them is a different story. Our game plan in 2003 was the cornerstone of our success - it should have never been radically altered, just evolved for the playing roster. Plus attrocious team choices (Boogas for instance when he was REALLY struggling) does not help his cause.

YES, the players take must take some blame. Some members of this team are in dreadful form and would not make the grade at any other club. Plus we are offerring no direction in the halves and even the forwards have not been as effective. We look lost in attack.

ON TOP OF ALL THIS, injuries (Tongue, Graham, Mogg, Drew, Croker, Joel, Schifcofske, Davico, Woolford) and suspension (Wiki, Wiki, Wiki, Nathan Smith) have hit us far harder this year and last.

Add it all together = disaster.

 

[greeneyed]

I have to say that our coach has faced some very significant challenges and difficulties this year. Injuries have been high, suspensions have affected us significantly as well eg Wiki suspended for a total of 8 games.

Codswolop greeneyed ... we have had a fairly good run with injuries and certainly no more than teams who have coped fairly well under similar circumstances.

We played the injury depleted sharks at Bruce with an almost full stength team and came away with an uninspiring win. We played an injury riddled storm last week and were beaten soundly. We play teams which we are expected to beat comfortably and either lose or scrap in with uninspiring wins. If it wasnt for three lucky victories by a solitary point we would be competing for the wodden spoon.

Irrespective of all that we play a style of football that most experts you hear find difficult to understand .. we have nothing in the bag when attacking the opposition line. We are in the bottom third for both attack and defence. All this from a coach in his 3/4th year of a five year plan ... lets see what the 5th year has in store for us.

I will always come back to this "do you think we would be in the situation we currently find ourselves if we had a combination of Gould/Stuart running this club". I know what my answer to this question is and I think I know yours.

Bay... we normally agree, but it is incorrect that we have not been adversely affected by injury and suspension this season. Just have a look who is on our injury list/suspension list this week versus the Roosters. Our injuries/suspensions, while I have not counted it all up, are also a whole lot worse than last season. Just look at the numbers of players used last year versus this year.

 

[greeneyed]

Oh, and No 1, I am still waiting for your contribution in terms of some reasoned arguments and logical thought processes to demonstrate your conclusions.

 

[Raider_69]

Add it all together = disaster.

and there it is
season 04 in a nutshell