Melbournes Money

[matt]

You dont rock into somebodies elses party and tell them what guest's have to leave and what people have to pair up...Go away and have your own party thanks..oh thats right you threw one .LOL

 

[ozjet1]

and when theres only you and three friends watching the Rugby League while down the road the AFL is dragging 50,000 through the gate you can blame NEWs LTD.
Some of you have no idea of the real world it has taken the Swans 35yrs and they are still not that popular the storm has had ten and they are doing OK.
I dont think I would put anyone from NSW in charge of anything you lot can think beyond yesterday.
Look at the Leagues clubs all the for site of a gnat,smoking the lot they did not think it would happen so like some on this thread they stuck their heads in the sand and look what happened

3 premierships in 10 years helps. 5 GFs in 10 years helps.

 

[Raider_69]

What Melbourne add to our TV deal is a lot more than the 6 mil it takes to prop them up
You gotta spend money to make money
Melbourne would add probably double, if not triple that to our yearly FTA deal. Without them we'd be making LESS money, even if we include the 8 mil no longer going to them.

Melbourne are a vital part of this code going forward

 

[pedge]

the QLD clubs and the storm have 1st look at all of QLD. the players are in their feeder clubs.

if you expect every club to have a scout in every corner of the globe, then where do you draw the line on the costs? most clubs in the NRL operate as public companies limited by guaranatee. they have no investors other than members who pay a small fee, and generally have to rely on the resources they can generate and provide within this to continue as a solvent business.

fact is, Brisbane and Melbourne have the advantage of greater resources at their disposal. even outside of the parity of the salary cap, they're using the funds of the company associated with the competition administrator to operate the team.

firstly let me start by saying i think we need the storm, they are a necessary evil...i hate them but i acvknowledge we need them in the comp

now after reading through this whole threa, this is the 1 post that actually dictates the advantage that the storm have...its ironically also the only one that pro storm supporters havnt responded too....

now without obviously knowing exactly how the storm spend their money, the possibilities are endles.....better facilities, more coaches, more money in strength and conditioning,better hotels away from home, better flights, more scout etc etc

now i have no problem news ltd propping them up, although their expenditure i think should b monitored....however i feel that at least the storm supporters should admit they do have avantages

 

[_Johnsy]

What Melbourne add to our TV deal is a lot more than the 6 mil it takes to prop them up
You gotta spend money to make money
Melbourne would add probably double, if not triple that to our yearly FTA deal. Without them we'd be making LESS money, even if we include the 8 mil no longer going to them.

Melbourne are a vital part of this code going forward

Maybe so, but only, and if only the winner of the tv rights plays them at a 1/2 decent hour, not a quater past shyte o'clock.

 

[_Johnsy]

now i have no problem news ltd propping them up, although their expenditure i think should b monitored....however i feel that at least the storm supporters should admit they do have avantages

So are you ok with all other clubs (via providing the "product" and income News Ltd make from this) to keep them afloat. If so, what do all other clubs get in return ?

 

[big_matt]

So are you ok with all other clubs (via providing the "product" and income News Ltd make from this) to keep them afloat. If so, what do all other clubs get in return ?

What do the other clubs get in return? They get NRL. They get a sport that actually has a future. If league isn't a national sport it will die. I would say thats a pretty good bargain. $5 mill a year from news ltd means you will have a dragons team to support in 25 years time.

Again, anyone who thinks a tv station would pay $750mill over 4 years for a comp that only involves sydney and SE queensland is seriously having a laugh. And anyone who thinks rugby league can survive in oz with only teams in those two states for the next 50 years is also having a laugh. This is the tv age of sport and if you cant win the big tv deals the salary cap goes down and down and you get worse and worse players staying in oz and less and less fans.

Ask the AFL, Soccer, Union and netball CEO's why they have to support franchises in new states and you'll get the same answer. In fact ask the baseball, american football, basketball and ice hockey franchises getting supported and you'll get the same answer.

Why are the AFL about to throw crazy money at western sydney in a franchise that will make a huge loss for them? They know its essential for the future.

Everyone gets it, except some of the NSW league fraternity.

 

[pedge]

What do the other clubs get in return? They get NRL. They get a sport that actually has a future. If league isn't a national sport it will die. I would say thats a pretty good bargain. $5 mill a year from news ltd means you will have a dragons team to support in 25 years time.

Again, anyone who thinks a tv station would pay $750mill over 4 years for a comp that only involves sydney and SE queensland is seriously having a laugh. And anyone who thinks rugby league can survive in oz with only teams in those two states for the next 50 years is also having a laugh. This is the tv age of sport and if you cant win the big tv deals the salary cap goes down and down and you get worse and worse players staying in oz and less and less fans.

Ask the AFL, Soccer, Union and netball CEO's why they have to support franchises in new states and you'll get the same answer. In fact ask the baseball, american football, basketball and ice hockey franchises getting supported and you'll get the same answer.

Why are the AFL about to throw crazy money at western sydney in a franchise that will make a huge loss for them? They know its essential for the future.

Everyone gets it, except some of the NSW league fraternity.

once again, any valid point against the storm goes without retort
you my friend, have no credibility

 

[big_matt]

Eh? We were asked what the other clubs get in return for the 5 mill and I think I gave a pretty big answer to that. They get a comp in the future.

Why does that lack credibility?

What do you want me to write?

btw as you can see I wasnt responding to your post further up the thread if thats what your problem is. I was replying to Johnsy who made the latest comment.

 

[macavity]

Exactly.

How are we being propped up to the extent of dominating? Geez, some of the conspiracy theories on here are amazing.

We have the same salary cap as everyone else and the same recruitment rules as everyone else.

The fact we employed plenty staff at the top of their game and recruited some of the top players has nothing to do with News ltd.

seeing my own well supported, well sponsored team live a hand to mouth existence, struggle on the field and off, and be unable to recruit (or uncover) anyone of note due to finance restrictions.... makes that rather hard to swallow.

 

[Jason Maher]

The real injustice and reason for hating the Storm happend 10 years ago, with a rigged criterea that heavily favoured teams propped up by News Ltd. money. Melbourne would quite simply have died in the arse if they had to compete on a level footing with the likes of Wests, Souths, Illawarra, St. George, Balmain, Norths, Manly, heck even the old Gold Coast team. But of course, there was no level footing. The teams that built the competition were in effect told "thanks for building the best rugby league competition in the world over 90 years, now f**k off and let us reap the benefits of your hard work". Not much different to what people from outside NSW are still saying today.

There is also the injustice of what any number of other clubs (including exapnsion clubs Perth, Adelaide, Gold Coast, and South Queensland) could have done with the $5-6 million per year that Melbourne have been artificially propped up with since day 1. Melbourne also had the distinct advantage of building a player roster from two clubs that died at the same time they were brought in - Perth and Hunter, with only a handful of recruits required by the conventional method to complete the squad. No other new team has ever had that sort of leg-up, not even the Broncos. I'm sure the Titans would have killed to be able to pick eyes out of say Cronulla and Souths (13th and 15th in '06) instead of having to build a complete squad the hard way.

Having said all that, from where we are at today, we should continue to back Melbourne in the way we failed to back Perth and Adelaide 10 years ago.

 

[meltiger]

my last post was in the same form as you and others here. debate with a question. if i havent provided anything new, then neither of any of you.

Rubbish. I provided a considered response challenging your post, which was full of insinuations, and providing little evidence. Actually respondto the points in question.

its obvious that im dealing with storm fans or folks who take the propaganda and views of the DT and programs on Fox as gospel. because only they would also agree that the 'independence in appearance' test has not been breached.

meltiger = Pro-News Ltd. Dear oh dear :lol:

firstly let me start by saying i think we need the storm, they are a necessary evil...i hate them but i acvknowledge we need them in the comp

now after reading through this whole threa, this is the 1 post that actually dictates the advantage that the storm have...its ironically also the only one that pro storm supporters havnt responded too....

now without obviously knowing exactly how the storm spend their money, the possibilities are endles.....better facilities, more coaches, more money in strength and conditioning,better hotels away from home, better flights, more scout etc etc

now i have no problem news ltd propping them up, although their expenditure i think should b monitored....however i feel that at least the storm supporters should admit they do have avantages

You actualy have a fair point here. Is there any actualy evidence that Melbourne are able to use the money to provide better facilities for their players than other clubs though?

I mean, realistically, they train at of Princes Park, which whilst OK, is not the most modern facility in the world.

seeing my own well supported, well sponsored team live a hand to mouth existence, struggle on the field and off, and be unable to recruit (or uncover) anyone of note due to finance restrictions.... makes that rather hard to swallow.

Giving Newcastle an extra $375k a season isn't going to change any of this...

 

[Hanscholo]

Pull it out. level playing field would be nice.

 

[Hanscholo]

The NRL final outrated the AFL grand final?
Why?
Because Victorian viewers tuned in to watch the Storm.

So we should have our own clubs go under to support a fairy land rugby league team? I think they have won enough, the 20s was the straw that broke the camels back. I said there would be questions about how its possible, now, we need to work out how to even things out. If Newcastle cant afford a fkn reserve grade side then why should we sit back and do nothing while Melbourne plunder everyones juniors?

 

[elbusto]

So we should have our own clubs go under to support a fairy land rugby league team? I think they have won enough, the 20s was the straw that broke the camels back. I said there would be questions about how its possible, now, we need to work out how to even things out. If Newcastle cant afford a fkn reserve grade side then why should we sit back and do nothing while Melbourne plunder everyones juniors?

sitting in a glass house throwing stones. Newcastle still do not have a Leagues Club. What a great Club. Newcastle watched Andrew Johns go down the gurgler (and knew it) - its well known the Club new of his problems and hid them under the carpet.

A one Club Town in a a major League nursery fails to keep its head above water.

Mis-managed. Mis-managed. Mis-managed.

Newcastle's problems are of their own doing.

 

[macavity]

What a great Club.

only part of that post you got right.

Melbourne don't have a leagues club either and they seem to be doing ok....

mismanagement might be true of the past (we had a string of pretty ordinary CEOs) but certainly isn't now - we have one of the better CEOs in the comp, have improved things off the field and are working towards sustainability - albeit on a skeleton staff and without the capacity to really invest in the future.

.....however our sustainability model can't allow for the sort of systems Melb can put in place - because we can't afford it - because we aren't subsidised by the rest of the comp.

Anyone that contends Melb aren't given a leg up is absolutely delusional. Sure they have great systems in place - but that has a hell of a lot to do with having ample funds to do so.

 

[elbusto]

only part of that post you got right.

Melbourne don't have a leagues club either and they seem to be doing ok....

mismanagement might be true of the past (we had a string of pretty ordinary CEOs) but certainly isn't now - we have one of the better CEOs in the comp, have improved things off the field and are working towards sustainability - albeit on a skeleton staff and without the capacity to really invest in the future.

.....however our sustainability model can't allow for the sort of systems Melb can put in place - because we can't afford it - because we aren't subsidised by the rest of the comp.

Anyone that contends Melb aren't given a leg up is absolutely delusional. Sure they have great systems in place - but that has a hell of a lot to do with having ample funds to do so.

I never said Melbourne do not get a leg up. They need one.

If you do not have Melbourne you can forget the NRL. Its that simple.

As for Newcastle - I have always had a soft spot for the Club and was really surprised at what an amateur operation they were for so many years.

I agree the new CEO is pushing things forward and I sincerely hope they get get back to their best as their crowd support is amazing particularly when they are going well.

My major complaint about Newcastle is that the pokies there rob you blind. But that is a different issue

 

[big_matt]

So we should have our own clubs go under to support a fairy land rugby league team? I think they have won enough, the 20s was the straw that broke the camels back. I said there would be questions about how its possible, now, we need to work out how to even things out. If Newcastle cant afford a fkn reserve grade side then why should we sit back and do nothing while Melbourne plunder everyones juniors?

You're not getting it. It's the other way round. Your clubs WILL go under if you DON'T financially support the Storm. Anyone who has worked in sport will tell you that.

The AFL financially supports the Lions, Swans etc way more than the NRL and News Ltd ever supported the storm. Have Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond etc "gone under"? No. But they may have if they had kept it as the VFL and tv had refused to fund what would have been a local comp rather than a national competition. Why do the AFL get $250 million more than NRL from tv every 4 years even though they have no internationals or state of origin? Simple. They have teams in lots of states and therefore the whole of Australia wants to watch it.

And to those saying we have the best facilities. Are you having a laugh? We have spent the last ten years in one of the most run down stadiums in all of australia and we train at a disused ground that the AFL teams refuse to train on. Hardly world class facilities!

If you want to pick on anyone what about the broncos? They are 70% owned by News Ltd and look at the stadium, training complex and medical staff they have!

Anyway I wont post again on this cause it goes round in circles. Those who think the NRL can survive without teams in other states are wrong but will never be convinced otherwise so no point debating it.

 

[elbusto]

You're not getting it. It's the other way round. Your clubs WILL go under if you DON'T financially support the Storm. Anyone who has worked in sport will tell you that.

The AFL financially supports the Lions, Swans etc way more than the NRL and News Ltd ever supported the storm. Have Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond etc "gone under"? No. But they may have if they had kept it as the VFL and tv had refused to fund what would have been a local comp rather than a national competition.

And to those saying we have the best facilities. Are you having a laugh? We have spent the last ten years in one of the most run down stadiums in all of australia and we train at a disused ground that the AFL teams refuse to train on. Hardly world class facilities!

If you want to pick on anyone what about the broncos? They are 70% owned by News Ltd and look at the stadium, training complex and medical staff they have!

Anyway I wont post again on this cause it goes round in circles. Those who think the NRL can survive without teams in other states are wrong but will never be convinced otherwise so no point debating it.

I agree - this is the wounds of Super League being re-opened - the game has to get over it and move forward. Some cannot obviously.

 

[meltiger]

Have Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond etc "gone under"?

Richmond almost folded and had to rely on a public fundraising campaign 20 years ago to raise the million + at the time which was required to keep the clubs doors open. We live a year by year existence, with large debt, sh*tty (But improving) facilities.

Melbourne ... Melbourne are kept alive by the league, recieving large additional amounts of funds that the other clubs don't recieve.

By and large though, all the AFL clubs recieve annual financial packages from the AFL that dwarf anything handed out to NRL clubs, excluding the Storm. Which is part of the problem - The AFL thanks to their much better TV deal, have the ability to hand out this money to the clubs, whereas the NRL doesn't.

The ideal future is for the NRL to recieve an equitable TV deal which will then allow them not only to continue to provide the Storm with the funds neccesary to survive in the short/medium term but also ramp up payments to the other 15 clubs, in order to help them stay afloat. Not only that, but hopefully it would allow an increase in the salary cap, funded completely by increased tv rights dividends to the clubs, which will help in fighting off RU & the ESL. As far as I am aware, the AFL fund about 75% at least of the salary cap through the annual dividends. RL would be no where near that.

At the end of the day, it's the clubs and their players bringing this money into the game, not the NRL. They both should take a much larger benefit from any TV rights money.

.....however our sustainability model can't allow for the sort of systems Melb can put in place - because we can't afford it - because we aren't subsidised by the rest of the comp.

Anyone that contends Melb aren't given a leg up is absolutely delusional. Sure they have great systems in place - but that has a hell of a lot to do with having ample funds to do so.

& those systems would be?