New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Pippen94]

Exactly mate.

There seems to be this argument going around that you either have to kill Sydney teams to go to new markets (which is not very smart and not going to happen anyway ) or that for some reason the game can’t expand anywhere outside NSW/QLD (which is myopic). Just plan Perth/NZ 2 within the next decade (in whatever order you want) and then decide what you want to do with the 20th team when you get to that point.

Nobody is saying that. Most ppl want game to expand to new markets but are just realistic that spending is not greater than potential return

 

[Pippen94]

An Adelaide or Perth team pulling 15k members would be better for the game.

That's irrelevant. Viable Perth & Adelaide would be good for game

 

[Pippen94]

I think you have some salient points and I don’t think the Suns and Giants are very popular; however, there are a few points that need to be made:

1. League ratings are going up not down. That would suggest that whilst the product could improve (last year’s quality was a considerable improvement on 2021) people seem to be relatively happy with the product. It is also rating higher than the AFL.

2. I would add that their TV deals have been greater for a long time. Some of that probably correlates with longer games however a factor would also having popular teams in every metro city market (the Swans and Lions have been on the other hand a success for them)

Well want did broadcasters want a team in Perth or Brisbane 2?!

 

[Pippen94]

Reality is Negative???

Just because you have no idea about anything going on in NZ doesn't make it "negative".

You want to have fanciful dreams that's up to you. Just know that's all they ever will be.

Daddy chill

 

[Pippen94]

Decent rectangular stadia in NZ

Dunedin
Waikato
Christchurch when it’s finished

That’s about it really for decent sized grounds.

Eden Park better than Accor? I’ve been to both and it’s debatable.

Silly that ppl would argue about stadiums as reason not to go to nz. Lots of venues there

 

[Pippen94]

The only way we'll increase the value of the broadcast rights and sponsorship deals is by adding teams to Adelaide and Perth.

Not really. Both teams gotta make finals often to get decent audience & given size & importance of those markets probably not talking a lot of additional ppl.
2nd Melbourne would have greater impact

 

[Colk]

That can't be said with any certainty. Streaming makes the whole picture opaque. Like-for-like comparisons are nigh impossible.

I'll leave it to whatsisname at sportsindustry to arbitrate.

He had put up a rather large post (I can’t be bothered finding it but somebody on this forum might) detailing the growth in ratings. It is also outrating fumbleball.

Now I didn’t personally like the standard of football in 2021 but the ratings have increased.

 

[Colk]

Nobody is saying that. Most ppl want game to expand to new markets but are just realistic that spending is not greater than potential return

Mate you have clearly stated on numerous occasions that the game shouldn’t go to Perth. You have also stated that your preference is for the return of the North Sydney Bears which nobody else is suggesting (for good reason - it doesn’t make sense)

At least stand up for what you believe even if what you believe (at least on the latter) makes no sense.

 

[Colk]

Silly that ppl would argue about stadiums as reason not to go to nz. Lots of venues there

That’s probably the weakest argument you could come up with. It’s not like a lot of teams are playing in world class state of the art venues.

 

[Wb1234]

That’s probably the weakest argument you could come up with. It’s not like a lot of teams are playing in world class state of the art venues.

One of the kiwi posters made that argument here against nz2

but the guy that made the response doesn’t know what he’s in about tbf

 

[Colk]

Well want did broadcasters want a team in Perth or Brisbane 2?!

English?

If you are talking about the Dolphins than that has been settled and not many people would have argued that the decision to go for another Brisbane side was a bad one (people might split hairs on the choice of the team but not the idea)

We’re talking about the next team

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That is only true if they are popular. It's hard to believe the Giants and Suns add much to the value of AFL broadcast deals. If they do, it's merely through the crude measure of extra content, which would accrue just the same from a team in Tas and a third in Perth.

Adding teams in Adelaide and Perth would be more like the Lions and Swans. It would provide two unrepresented markets with teams for people who want an alternative to fumbleball.

You could be right in the sense that NRL viewership might already be at saturation point in NSW and QLD. New viewers might only be available in AFL States and NZ.

I think there's room for growth in Queensland. NSW is over saturated.

The Dolphins will shed light on whether there are more eyeballs within the existing geographic footprint, the sort who only watch Origin or GF, prepared to regularly follow NRL. If they deliver figures similar to the Broncos, will that be at the expense of lower ratings for other clubs? Meaning no increase in overall aggregate.

Queenslanders aren't interested in watching Sydney clubs.

Analysis of Dolphins TV ratings will inform the decision on where to go to set up a ninth weekly game. Because of the undeniable correlation between playing performance and ratings, one year's data (maybe several years' data) will not suffice.

It'll might take up to 10 or 15 years to know these details.

One question often neglected in debates around the pros and cons of growth is whether the on-field NRL product is currently fit for expansion. Most changes and applications of rules seem designed to increase the frequency and speed with which one bloke smashes into three other blokes. Administrators must think there's an insatiable appetite for bash and crash.

Yes. It's similar to cricket administratore making the game more batsman friendly because they think everyone wants to see more sixes. There needs to be a balance between attack and defence to make it a fair contest.

I think supporters, and more to the point prospective supporters, want greater diversity and less predictability.

The way the game is played is largely determined by officials and coaches. Both these groups operate in the grip of various media-induced neuroses. Teams who take risks are often punished. Players who take risks are often derided. Might be an idea to address the effects of all this on the product before placing it more prominently in front of audiences in Perth and Adelaide.

Coaches and clubs have took control of the game when the ARLC was set up. What they want isn't necessarily good for the game.

 

[Wb1234]

English?

If you are talking about the Dolphins than that has been settled and not many people would have argued that the decision to go for another Brisbane side was a bad one (people might split hairs on the choice of the team but not the idea)

We’re talking about the next team

He’s saying broadcasters don’t want a team in Perth

he should’ve added they do want another nz team (sky does) so that’s where it should go

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Exactly mate.

There seems to be this argument going around that you either have to kill Sydney teams to go to new markets (which is not very smart and not going to happen anyway ) or that for some reason the game can’t expand anywhere outside NSW/QLD (which is myopic). Just plan Perth/NZ 2 within the next decade (in whatever order you want) and then decide what you want to do with the 20th team when you get to that point.

Is it good business practice to flood a market with more supply than demand?

Every business that operates within an over saturated market loses customers to their competitors. The annual reports from the Sydney clubs prove this is the case. Their returns from football operations are abysmal compared to the Broncos, Cowboys, Lions and Swans. Leaving Sydney as it is will lead to all nine of its clubs remaining small and inferior to the Broncos, Cowboys, Lions and Swans.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively and hoping for a different result. This is what you're advocating we do with Sydney.

 

[Te Kaha]

That’s probably the weakest argument you could come up with. It’s not like a lot of teams are playing in world class state of the art venues.

No, But Christchurch currently has a Stadium thats stands are scaffolding and wellington has a stadium that WIll only allow the lights on for another 3 or 4 times a year. In this instance Stadiums ARE important.

One of the kiwi posters made that argument here against nz2

but the guy that made the response doesn’t know what he’s in about tbf

This coming from someone who knows nothing about the country he is posting about.

He’s saying broadcasters don’t want a team in Perth

he should’ve added they do want another nz team (sky does) so that’s where it should go

Really and where has sky said they want another team. Another post you wally that is a blatant lie.

 

[Colk]

Is it good business practice to flood a market with more supply than demand?

Every business that operates within an over saturated market loses customers to their competitors. The annual reports from the Sydney clubs prove this is the case. Their returns from football operations are abysmal compared to the Broncos, Cowboys, Lions and Swans. Leaving Sydney as it is will lead to all nine of its clubs remaining small and inferior to the Broncos, Cowboys, Lions and Swans.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively and hoping for a different result. This is what you're advocating we do with Sydney.

Sydney teams are viable though at this point in time. Now you might disagree with the reasons or methods in which they are viable but that is a conflation of a moral argument with a factual one.

Now if that changes that changes (leagues clubs or pokies go under for example) and the market will dictate your point. At that point a Sydney team will die, you will be vindicated and a team outside of Sydney will likely replace them

However I don’t see the point in preemptively killing teams because you don’t like pokies funding clubs.

 

[Colk]

He’s saying broadcasters don’t want a team in Perth

he should’ve added they do want another nz team (sky does) so that’s where it should go

I think both those points are really speculative.

Again I don’t see how the NZ broadcaster (remember it is the sole broadcaster now) is going to pay more when there is no competition.

Now they could but I don’t see why and if it is an increase I don’t how it wouldn’t be anything else as picayune, considering the monopoly and the size of the market overall.

 

[Wb1234]

TikTok - Make Your Day

Yeh nz is running out of good league juniors Hahhaaha

 

[Wb1234]

Sydney teams are viable though at this point in time. Now you might disagree with the reasons or methods in which they are viable but that is a conflation of a moral argument with a factual one.

Now if that changes that changes (leagues clubs or pokies go under for example) and the market will dictate your point. At that point a Sydney team will die, you will be vindicated and a team outside of Sydney will likely replace them

However I don’t see the point in preemptively killing teams because you don’t like pokies funding clubs.

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

because rugby league gets excellent ratings in nz and more so this year with the coverage on fta

at times it rivals the all blacks

sky nz don’t pay 38 million dollars a year for one nz team out of charity

the nrl ratings for Perth have always been poor

foxtel has no interest in a Perth team when they already have afl

 

[Pippen94]

Mate you have clearly stated on numerous occasions that the game shouldn’t go to Perth. You have also stated that your preference is for the return of the North Sydney Bears which nobody else is suggesting (for good reason - it doesn’t make sense)

At least stand up for what you believe even if what you believe (at least on the latter) makes no sense.

No I haven't