New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Perth Red]

I do it every 3 weeks, its no hardship. And 1 hour one of the ways makes little difference. It is rarely that long from Sydney to Perth, we did it in 4hr 10min 2 weeks ago. Of course its relevant in a discussion about how long it takes to get from A to B.
and as I said it wont be a factor in the NRLs decision anyway.

 

[Wb1234]

He’s right travel times are a wash

 

[Gobsmacked]

I do it every 3 weeks, its no hardship. And 1 hour one of the ways makes little difference. It is rarely that long from Sydney to Perth, we did it in 4hr 10min 2 weeks ago. Of course its relevant in a discussion about how long it takes to get from A to B.
and as I said it wont be a factor in the NRLs decision anyway.

I don't think it makes too much difference either.
Sydney to Wellington is 2200km
Sydney to Perth is 3900km
So for the record, it's significantly further!

 

[Wb1234]

I don't think it makes too much difference either.
Sydney to Wellington is 2200km
Sydney to Perth is 3900km
So for the record, it's significantly further!

Christchurch is further

 

[Gobsmacked]

He’s right travel times are a wash

It's not.
Wellington to Sydney is 3.45
Sydney to Perth is 4.55
That's an unbiased google answer.

In 1 contract they ask you to sit on a plane for 5 hours every other week.
And 1 flight that is 8 hours.

In the other contract they ask you to fly 3.45 minutes every other week and 1 flight is 1.5 hours.

 

[Matua]

Your the one saying the arl should be investing millions more into junior nz kiwi systems as the a first precondition for nz2

we don’t want our elite athletes playing in a poor standard competition

the pathways that matter are those provided by nz2 playing in the Australian system playing against the best each week so when they make nrl they are used to it

150 players provided by nz2 will be far more useful than 10k playing at a middling standard that can’t make the nrl

So nz2 gets those kids at 16 or younger and then spend years in their systems playing the best Aussie juniors

that’s how it works

which if you were a league fan would know and I wouldn’t have to explain it

I think you muddle all of us NZ posters up. You're attributing stuff to me that others have said.

I've advocated that NRL clubs allow young Kiwis to stay in the top first XV comps because that's as close as you can get to professional sport without being professional. But, I'd be more than happy if the ARL invested no strings attached money in junior league in NZ.

You need the 10k playing at a middling standard to get your elite 150 players.

Your "you're not a league fan" slurs are extremely childish and really do not help any argument you're trying to make.

 

[Wb1234]

I hope so, but I or you, dont know. And then the second question, and the really really important one is does the extra value for SkyNZ counteract a potential lack of value seen by Australian TV of a NZ2 club. That will be the one that is the deal breaker as they pay 93% of the tv deal.

So lets say SkyNZ offer $3mill a year more for NZ2. But Fox and Ch9, knowing how poor the warriors rate and add value, deem another Australian club worth $25mill more and a NZ2 only worth $10mill more. Whose the NRL goign with?

Now again all guesswork and none of us know what Fox and Ch9 will want from the next deal. We have just seen a record media deal for a sport with a strong presence in all 5 metro capitals though so that should tell them something.

What are you on about

the ninth game will be hugely valuable to Aussie tv

they could pick a team in Singapore and they would still want to show it at the right times

obviously nz2 gives the arlc two lots of extra revenue streams which Perth doesn’t

 

[Wb1234]

I think you muddle all of us NZ posters up. You're attributing stuff to me that others have said.

I've advocated that NRL clubs allow young Kiwis to stay in the top first XV comps because that's as close as you can get to professional sport without being professional. But, I'd be more than happy if the ARL invested no strings attached money in junior league in NZ.

You need the 10k playing at a middling standard to get your elite 150 players.

Your "you're not a league fan" slurs are extremely childish and really do not help any argument you're trying to make.

You literally said nz2 won’t work until the arlc invests money in nz juniors

I’ve shown you why nz juniors aren’t going to produce nrl players meaningfully

the best way to produce more kiwi nrl players is to plonk another nrl team there who are getting funding of 20 million pa in kiwi money and let them do their magic

 

[Matua]

Christchurch is further

Did you mean to say shorter? Chch is the closest of the 3 to Sydney.

 

[Wb1234]

Did you mean to say shorter? Chch is the closest of the 3 to Sydney.

Wow your right

I would’ve assumed it’s a five hour flight time being on the South Island

 

[Te Kaha]

Yours maths is on par with your knowledge of rugby league

45 million minus 32 million is in increase of 13 million

it seems this whole topic baffles you but yet you seem to know a Perth team will lead to a large increase in the tv deal

it would be nice if you could actually answer a simple question like do nz2 bring extra value for sky nz

but I understand the lack of an answer is obfuscation

Increase on 13 million when they don't have to. You need to go back to school Wally.

Whatever sky pays, it will be more with a second team.
So NZ 2 adds tv revenue without question.

Foxtel will pay more for an extra game. Given there's almost always going to be at least 1 Aussie side in the contest outside of 2 games a year, the fact that the side is located outside of Australia will have next to no difference in value to Foxtel.

NZ 2 is clear winner for TV revenue.
NZ 2 is the clear winner for talent.
NZ 2 is on par with available time slots.
NZ 2 is a clear winner in travel distance.
NZ 2 has a better stadium.

This forum has been led by PR into an eco chamber where Perth becomes the clear favourite.
This is the drumbeat of 4 or 5 posters on a relatively unknown forum.
It doesn't reflect in anyway the reality of revenue/ talent/logistics that put NZ 2 in the box seat.

But sure go back to your little anonymous eco chamber.

f**k you two are insane. SKY will pay $45 a year because of an extra NZ team???? It will be lucky if they pay $25 million a year.

Its simple. Sky LOSES money on what it pays for League. Outside of the Warriors games only 50 odd K watch the NRL When a Rugby game is on Sky 1, even Warriors games halve in ratings. SKY LOSES money on League.

If NRL asks sky to pay more than they find value in, Sky simply says no they can't afford to and will only bid in the range of what they did pre Spark days. If the NRL says no, then what? they lose out on 20-25 million a year. Because nobody else in NZ will pay anywhere near that.

Aussie broadcasters will pay much more for an Aussie team that rates better than they will for a second NZ team that doesn't. That's why Perth will be the next team.

 

[Matua]

You literally said nz2 won’t work until the arlc invests money in nz juniors

I’ve shown you why nz juniors aren’t going to produce nrl players meaningfully

the best way to produce more kiwi nrl players is to plonk another nrl team there who are getting funding of 20 million pa in kiwi money and let them do their magic

Have you followed how shit at doing their magic the Warriors are? There's no guarantee a new NZ team will be any better at doing their magic. You also need to convince players to play league over rugby, and despite what you think claiming league is better doesn't work, just plonking a team in Chch or Welly isn't going to do that.

And yet again, where is this $20m pa a year going to come from? NZ league has barely kept the Warriors financially afloat throughout their existence ... You want to believe it will come from Sky, but it wont.

I don't think I literally said that, feel free to find the post where I said it and I'll concede that point to you.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Wow your right

I would’ve assumed it’s a five hour flight time being on the South Island

It’s also a fair bit further west than the others

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Increase on 13 million when they don't have to. You need to go back to school Wally.



f**k you two are insane. SKY will pay $45 a year because of an extra NZ team???? It will be lucky if they pay $25 million a year.

Its simple. Sky LOSES money on what it pays for League. Outside of the Warriors games only 50 odd K watch the NRL When a Rugby game is on Sky 1, even Warriors games halve in ratings. SKY LOSES money on League.

If NRL asks sky to pay more than they find value in, Sky simply says no they can't afford to and will only bid in the range of what they did pre Spark days. If the NRL says no, then what? they lose out on 20-25 million a year. Because nobody else in NZ will pay anywhere near that.

Aussie broadcasters will pay much more for an Aussie team that rates better than they will for a second NZ team that doesn't. That's why Perth will be the next team.

That actually raises a few other points relevant to this discussion

Warriors ratings in aus are largely meaningless- the NRL are happy for them to have low ratings in the shitty Aus timeslots because that’s where they get NZ TV numbers from. Having an NZ based team has never been about Aus TV numbers, it’s about expanding to the NZ market.
A Perth team in reality would be almost exactly the same. WA is effectively another country with the timezone and geographical differences- people in Sydney and Brisbane would be no more interested in a Perth team than a second NZ team.
All it comes down to really is the potential gain in audiences in WA vs NZ, and how well the time differences allow for games to fit into the TV schedule. The NRL lately won’t care about ratings on the eastern seaboard as long as they still get an extra game that can be conveniently scheduled. It’s the ratings in WA/NZ that will matter.

 

[Wb1234]

Have you followed how shit at doing their magic the Warriors are? There's no guarantee a new NZ team will be any better at doing their magic. You also need to convince players to play league over rugby, and despite what you think claiming league is better doesn't work, just plonking a team in Chch or Welly isn't going to do that.

And yet again, where is this $20m pa a year going to come from? NZ league has barely kept the Warriors financially afloat throughout their existence ... You want to believe it will come from Sky, but it wont.

I don't think I literally said that, feel free to find the post where I said it and I'll concede that point to you.

20 million a year is how much each nrl clubs
now gets in kiwi dollars from the arlc

it’s five million over the salary cap to allow for funding of junior teams

warriors have done a great job at producing nrl players

Jeez for a rugby league fan you sure like to invent negative things about the game in nz

 

[Wb1234]

That actually raises a few other points relevant to this discussion

Warriors ratings in aus are largely meaningless- the NRL are happy for them to have low ratings in the shitty Aus timeslots because that’s where they get NZ TV numbers from. Having an NZ based team has never been about Aus TV numbers, it’s about expanding to the NZ market.
A Perth team in reality would be almost exactly the same. WA is effectively another country with the timezone and geographical differences- people in Sydney and Brisbane would be no more interested in a Perth team than a second NZ team.
All it comes down to really is the potential gain in audiences in WA vs NZ, and how well the time differences allow for games to fit into the TV schedule. The NRL lately won’t care about ratings on the eastern seaboard as long as they still get an extra game that can be conveniently scheduled. It’s the ratings in WA/NZ that will matter.

Nz tv deal 32 million
Nz warriors grant 18 million
Arlc profit 14 million

 

[Wb1234]

The biggest problem for the warriors is their juniors haven’t been playing the Aussies enough regularly for long enough like Aussie kids do

Aussie juniors that make it are competing with hundreds of kids and the ones that make it are the elite

nz juniors need to be playing them

then the nrl isn’t such a big jump

skill wise kiwi players are better but talent only Carries you so far in the nrl

 

[Perth Red]

It's not.
Wellington to Sydney is 3.45
Sydney to Perth is 4.55
That's an unbiased google answer.

In 1 contract they ask you to sit on a plane for 5 hours every other week.
And 1 flight that is 8 hours.

In the other contract they ask you to fly 3.45 minutes every other week and 1 flight is 1.5 hours.

Its almost like every other professional sport hasnt made it work in Perth re travel lol
The amount of time and cost it takes to get from each city to Sydney is basically the same. Its not going to make a jot of difference to the NRL's decision.

 

[Te Kaha]

That actually raises a few other points relevant to this discussion

Warriors ratings in aus are largely meaningless- the NRL are happy for them to have low ratings in the shitty Aus timeslots because that’s where they get NZ TV numbers from. Having an NZ based team has never been about Aus TV numbers, it’s about expanding to the NZ market.
A Perth team in reality would be almost exactly the same. WA is effectively another country with the timezone and geographical differences- people in Sydney and Brisbane would be no more interested in a Perth team than a second NZ team.
All it comes down to really is the potential gain in audiences in WA vs NZ, and how well the time differences allow for games to fit into the TV schedule. The NRL lately won’t care about ratings on the eastern seaboard as long as they still get an extra game that can be conveniently scheduled. It’s the ratings in WA/NZ that will matter.

You're making the assumption that the NRL will decide it. They wont. Aussie Broadcasters will, as they always have. With a Perth team they can sell add space and Subscriptions. They can do neither in NZ. When Sky don't stump up the cash to support a second NZ team it will come down to which bid has the most benefit for those broadcasters. It wont be the NZ one, assuming there is even a bid.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The biggest problem for the warriors is their juniors haven’t been playing the Aussies enough regularly for long enough like Aussie kids do

Aussie juniors that make it are competing with hundreds of kids and the ones that make it are the elite

nz juniors need to be playing them

then the nrl isn’t such a big jump

skill wise kiwi players are better but talent only Carries you so far in the nrl

Yes, that and the junior structures and coaching in NZ aren’t of the same standard. You’ve got players in their mid teens with great athletic potential but who had next to no proper development as footballers compared to kids in the Australian systems who’ve had a decade of it by the time they’re 18.