New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[mongoose]

There it is that tired old argument again, one that holds no water when the Kiwis with less NZ "top talent" than the "30%" you suggest can win a world cup. it's a stupid assertion, but one Australians never fail to make.

I think there is just as many deluded Rugby fanatics here who think they are getting the best talent on offer from a bunch of elite private schools in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra....

 

[Te Kaha]

Good job that isn't the logic being used then...

Serious question; do you have comprehension issues or are you just totally incapable of engaging honestly?

BTW, most of the Kiwi's aren't produced by the NZ system, and at this point 80% of international RL players aren't actually from the country that they represent in any meaningful sense of the word. But don't reality get in the way of your story.

That's a terrible attempt at backpeddling. here is what you said...

The NZRU knows that they need Australian RU to thrive, but also that if RU ever gets popular enough in Australia that it's even just reasonably competitive in the player market, say something like 30% of the top talent that's currently going to the NRL and AFL went to RU instead, that that would be the end of the All Blacks as an institution, and they're doing everything they can to prevent that.

You are saying that if the ARU got even 30% of the "top talent that's currently going to the NRL" that it's the end of "All Blacks as an institution,". Thus stating that the "top Athletes" playing League are better than those playing Rugby. Yet, where the opposite is true in NZ, where you claim that NZR gets almost 100% of the "Top Athletes" the Kiwis, working with less than 1% of said "top Athletes" can still beat the "Top Athletes" in Australia, and even win a world cup.

What you are stating is clearly crap. since what you called less than 0% of NZs top talent can still beat the best Australian talent. So it would make zero difference to the "All Blacks as an institution," you are talking out of your arse.

Now i look forward to your next round of backpeddling or deflection.

 

[Te Kaha]

I think there is just as many deluded Rugby fanatics here who think they are getting the best talent on offer from a bunch of elite private schools in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra....

Where are these posts stating that? I have not seen a single post claiming that. Surely you can find them.

 

[mongoose]

Where are these posts stating that? I have not seen a single post claiming that. Surely you can find them.

what? uhhh... i don't mean on LU, i'm talking in general but if you want to search for an example - www.theroar.com.au is always a laugh

 

[Te Kaha]

what? uhhh... i don't mean on LU, i'm talking in general but if you want to search for an example - www.theroar.com.au is always a laugh

Never go there, and yes they are ridiculous.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm not as far removed as you may think. I live in Sydney. One of my mate's is the Chair of a club. Until a year ago I had two friends working for the Tahs.

Weren't you just saying that Kiwi's had no influence on Australian RU lol...

Rugby is rugby, trying to rework an Australian version of the game as a way to compete with NRL and AFL is straight up bonkers. You can claim world rugby be damned but the biggest upcoming boost for Oz rugby is going to be a RWC played as "actual" rugby.

The f**k are you talking about.

Every sport on the planet changes and reworks the rules to improve them constantly. In the case of RU vested interests on the other side of the world won't allow changes that would significantly improve the spectacle for the Australian (and Kiwi frankly) spectator. Remove those vested interests from the conversation, and hey presto, you're free to make whatever changes you deem necessary.

Frankly, why should we give a f**k what dumb merkins on the other side of the planet, let alone the other side of the Tasman, think anyway. They sure as shit don't take us into account when they make their decisions, if they did RU would be all about running Rugby not playing for penalties in the ruck.

Last year the most of the "international club side" matches got as good crowds in Australia as the Oz v Oz games.

A crowd of two Kiwi men and a dog is still a crowd of two men and dog.

Now compare those crowds to when the Brumbies, Tahs, and Reds play each other. Or even better, compare them to when the Brumcies, Tahs, and Reds played each other 20, or even just 10, years ago. Suddenly there're thousands more people in the stands, and you have the core of something.

Australia have multiple times tried to create a successful domestic competition at a level below Super and were unsuccessful multiple times. I'm not as confident as you that Oz can successfully run a competition a level above that, especially in cahoots with Twiggy if he decides he wants more control at some point down the line.

Jesus, you're not serious are you...

Lower tier comps with zero exposure were never going to be successful when the top was struggling so badly.

Serious question, what control do you believe NZR has over Oz rugby? What is this particular cage? Your conspiracy theory about NZR trying to keep Oz rugby down so that it's not attractive to league and AFL players is frankly hilarious. It is one I haven't come across before though so it did give me a good chuckle.

You don't need a conspiracy to explain what's going on. It's in the NZRU's interest to protect their financial interests and investments, and their decisions reflect that.

Everybody with a brain can see that Super Rugby would pretty quickly become a more competitive competition, and thus better product, if there was no restriction on national eligibility, i.e. an Australian playing for a NZ side was still eligible to represent the Wallabies and vice versa, but the NZRU will never allow that to happen. Why? Because it'd make the Australian sides more competitive, and Australian sides having a higher winning percentage hurts their bottom line.

That's a single example, but there're plenty of others. All those little things add up over time.

You are incorrect about NZR, they were ready to go it alone. It's much more feasible for NZ than it is for Oz. But, NZR, as shitty as they may be at relationships (same with the ARU) know that it is mutually beneficial for both NZ and Oz to work together. Oz rugby isn't going to improve if they just play each other all the time.

This keeps being repeated, but it's BS on face value.

The only way Australian Rugby improves is through increasing it's popularity in Australia, anything else is a dead end. They can continue to play the Kiwi's all they like, but that'll do nothing to improve publicity, participation rates, crowds, etc.

 

[The Great Dane]

That's a terrible attempt at backpeddling. here is what you said...



You are saying that if the ARU got even 30% of the "top talent that's currently going to the NRL" that it's the end of "All Blacks as an institution,". Thus stating that the "top Athletes" playing League are better than those playing Rugby. Yet, where the opposite is true in NZ, where you claim that NZR gets almost 100% of the "Top Athletes" the Kiwis, working with less than 1% of said "top Athletes" can still beat the "Top Athletes" in Australia, and even win a world cup.

What you are stating is clearly crap. since what you called less than 0% of NZs top talent can still beat the best Australian talent. So it would make zero difference to the "All Blacks as an institution," you are talking out of your arse.

Now i look forward to your next round of backpeddling or deflection.

Most of NZ's top RL talent is developed in Australia.

You, like all Kiwi's, can pretend that's not true, but it is what it is.

 

[Wb1234]

Most of NZ's top RL talent is developed in Australia.

You, like all Kiwi's, can pretend that's not true, but it is what it is.

You would wonder what kind of athletes nrl could develop if it got all the best juniors in nz given how good the current crop of kiwi players are from limited juniors

cutting out all the nonsense like rucks mauls and a million penalties allows them to focus on things like the collision and evading tackles

 

[Te Kaha]

Most of NZ's top RL talent is developed in Australia.

You, like all Kiwi's, can pretend that's not true, but it is what it is.

And there it is, the deflection, a poor one mind you but at least no backpedaling this time.

That point is entirely irrelevant however, since you claimed it would only take "top talent", which would mean they would be "developed" in the Australian Rugby system, not the NRL. So your argument is still wrong.

Next backpedal or deflection?

 

[Wb1234]

TikTok - Make Your Day

Just one example of how many islanders in the nrl

And here is some islander talent in union

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[Perth Red]

Isthere a salary cap in kick and clap? Im surprised Twiggy hasnt gone out and stacked the Force with All Blacks?

 

[Wb1234]

Isthere a salary cap in kick and clap? Im surprised Twiggy hasnt gone out and stacked the Force with All Blacks?

Five mill or so

and no all blacks become ineligible if they play for foreign sides without permission

 

[SpaceMonkey]

These Australians really don't understand Islanders. It doesn't matter what sport they do well in, when they do well on the international stage they are supported big time. It doesn't mean the sport is doing well, it means the country is. He thinks the Islands have been "taken over" by League because their teams were so well supported. He really has no idea about reality.

You’re right on that much, it’s always a huge deal for PIs when someone makes it to that level. Same happened when David Tua got his title shot against Lennox Lewis but half of Samoa didn’t take up boxing.

 

[Te Kaha]

Isthere a salary cap in kick and clap? Im surprised Twiggy hasnt gone out and stacked the Force with All Blacks?

No there is no Salary Cap in NZ Super Rugby, as the players are paid by NZR.

 

[YoHadrian]

Good, it can go back to being a private school boy/ banker wanker sport where it belongs.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Five mill or so

and no all blacks become ineligible if they play for foreign sides without permission

Don't Union love to shoot themselves in the foot. Got to be a massive reason why it's going down hill.
League get all the best Aussie talent and the Union teams can't supplement with any kiwis... and thus the divide grows .
I always wondered why Super Rugby felt empty, the clubs will never be their own entity or form their own individuality the way Sam burgess is in the Rabbits hearts or Tamalolo is Cowboys.
They can never be a global brand.
Union is just some strange little club.

So the NRL continues to expand and all the Australian talent gets picked up by League. Nothing left for Union, national team goes down hill , the Super Rugby teams go down hill and will eventually fall taking Super Rugby down with it.
New Zealand has a national comp of say 8 Union teams playing each other, the only interest is from a small market of NZ (6 million)hardly engaged because it's meaningless. Unless you're likely to be an All black or close, you go to Japan or Europe.
That leaves a small comp with a massive gap. You have about 40 guys good enough for the All blacks playing for a spot and then like 80 percent 3rd string players who couldn't land a professional gig?
And don't forget, these are pointless teams only there as a training ground for the All blacks.
So under this model, Union can only be successful when internationals are played in the same way we will watch walking at the Olympics.
What a shit show.
Or you could play in the most exciting Rugby tournament in the world ,NRL.
And regardless of where in the world you are, you can represent your country.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Good, it can go back to being a private school boy/ banker wanker sport where it belongs.

Nailed it.

 

[Matua]

Weren't you just saying that Kiwi's had no influence on Australian RU lol...

Wait, I'm not allowed to have Australian friends now? Only one of the three is a Kiwi and they've been here 21 years and done shit loads to support local rugby in Australia.

The f**k are you talking about.

Every sport on the planet changes and reworks the rules to improve them constantly. In the case of RU vested interests on the other side of the world won't allow changes that would significantly improve the spectacle for the Australian (and Kiwi frankly) spectator. Remove those vested interests from the conversation, and hey presto, you're free to make whatever changes you deem necessary.

Frankly, why should we give a f**k what dumb merkins on the other side of the planet, let alone the other side of the Tasman, think anyway. They sure as shit don't take us into account when they make their decisions, if they did RU would be all about running Rugby not playing for penalties in the ruck.

It's hard to take your discussions of rugby seriously if you honestly think the bold is how the game is played.

But the point is Aus rugby is party of the world rugby eco system, it can't survive without it, international rugby is the pinnacle of the game. Playing it's own hybrid-league style comp or whatever you want is not going to be a successful solution to improve player numbers.

A crowd of two Kiwi men and a dog is still a crowd of two men and dog.

Now compare those crowds to when the Brumbies, Tahs, and Reds play each other. Or even better, compare them to when the Brumcies, Tahs, and Reds played each other 20, or even just 10, years ago. Suddenly there're thousands more people in the stands, and you have the core of something.

That was the direct comparison I was making. Last year the crowds for the Tahs and NZ teams were similar to the Tahs v other Oz teams.

Jesus, you're not serious are you...

Lower tier comps with zero exposure were never going to be successful when the top was struggling so badly.

You don't need a conspiracy to explain what's going on. It's in the NZRU's interest to protect their financial interests and investments, and their decisions reflect that.

Everybody with a brain can see that Super Rugby would pretty quickly become a more competitive competition, and thus better product, if there was no restriction on national eligibility, i.e. an Australian playing for a NZ side was still eligible to represent the Wallabies and vice versa, but the NZRU will never allow that to happen. Why? Because it'd make the Australian sides more competitive, and Australian sides having a higher winning percentage hurts their bottom line.

That's a single example, but there're plenty of others. All those little things add up over time.

Jesus, you're not serious are you ...

Australian sides winning more does not hurt NZ rugby's bottom line, it will increase interest in the Super comp in NZ if the games are more competitive.

The restriction on eligibility is not about the strength of the Oz teams, it's about what is best for the game in NZ (on the field, not financially) and how system works (e.g. the players are contracted to NZR). The ARU have not shown any interest in overturning the status quo either.

This keeps being repeated, but it's BS on face value.

The only way Australian Rugby improves is through increasing it's popularity in Australia, anything else is a dead end. They can continue to play the Kiwi's all they like, but that'll do nothing to improve publicity, participation rates, crowds, etc.

It's not BS. Oz rugby will not be successful if it's only playing itself. It's not going to instantly be an NRL level competition.

 

[Te Kaha]

Don't Union love to shoot themselves in the foot. Got to be a massive reason why it's going down hill.
League get all the best Aussie talent and the Union teams can't supplement with any kiwis... and thus the divide grows .
I always wondered why Super Rugby felt empty, the clubs will never be their own entity or form their own individuality the way Sam burgess is in the Rabbits hearts or Tamalolo is Cowboys.
They can never be a global brand.
Union is just some strange little club.

So the NRL continues to expand and all the Australian talent gets picked up by League. Nothing left for Union, national team goes down hill , the Super Rugby teams go down hill and will eventually fall taking Super Rugby down with it.
New Zealand has a national comp of say 8 Union teams playing each other, the only interest is from a small market of NZ (6 million)hardly engaged because it's meaningless. Unless you're likely to be an All black or close, you go to Japan or Europe.
That leaves a small comp with a massive gap. You have about 40 guys good enough for the All blacks playing for a spot and then like 80 percent 3rd string players who couldn't land a professional gig?
And don't forget, these are pointless teams only there as a training ground for the All blacks.
So under this model, Union can only be successful when internationals are played in the same way we will watch walking at the Olympics.
What a shit show.
Or you could play in the most exciting Rugby tournament in the world ,NRL.
And regardless of where in the world you are, you can represent your country.

Keep on dreaming, it's all you are good at.

 

[Matua]

Isthere a salary cap in kick and clap? Im surprised Twiggy hasnt gone out and stacked the Force with All Blacks?

Bro, Perth isn't that attractive to NZers, despite your similar fush and chups shops.