New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

haha yeah isn't Patty Mills from Canberra?... F1 driver Mark Webber too, well technically Queanbeyan but we'll claim him. Pretty sure Daniel Ricciardo is from Perth though.

I looked up Mills. From Canberra, but is a massive Broncos fan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-unlikely-bromance-as-nba-superstar-cheers-broncs-to-victory/news-story/

People from Canberra either move to Brisbane or support the Broncos. Says it all about the Raiders and Canberra.

 

[mongoose]

You say Melbourne doesn't care for our game and then the very next sentence talk up memberships in Brisbane...

You know the Storm had 40k members in 2022 right?

 

[The Great Dane]

What you're saying is Melbourne Storm couldn't be bothered developing their own players because it's too expensive

That's not even close to what I said, and you're too braindead to engage with if that's truly what you thought I was saying.

Of course we both know that isn't the case, and you were just rephrasing the arguments in the least charitable way possible to avoid having to address them directly.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You say Melbourne doesn't care for our game and then the very next sentence talk up memberships in Brisbane...

You know the Storm had 40k members in 2022 right?

Brisbane's membership base rose by 40k in one season. In other words, the introduction of a second Brisbane team generated as many members as a Melbourne Storm team that was parachuted to the top from the start by News Ltd and stayed there for 25 years.

You're the idiot who said we need to ignore Brisbane because it won't generate new fans. Brisbane 2 just generated more active fans from Brisbane than a Perth team ever will. They certainly proved you wrong.

 

[The Great Dane]

I looked up Mills. From Canberra, but is a massive Broncos fan.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-unlikely-bromance-as-nba-superstar-cheers-broncs-to-victory/news-story/

People from Canberra either move to Brisbane or support the Broncos. Says it all about the Raiders and Canberra.

Only the ones that are ashamed of being from the ACT, but whose fault is that exactly?

Who could have guessed that the whole nation constantly bullying kids about their hometown would lead to a lack of pride and have negative social and psychological effects on many of them, especially when most of those criticisms are, let's be kind and say specious, at best.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That's not even close to what I said, and you're too braindead to engage with if that's truly what you thought I was saying.

Of course we both know that isn't the case, and you were just rephrasing the arguments in the least charitable way possible to avoid having to address them directly.

Here's what you said:

Storm totally neglected junior development in Melbourne/Victoria until very recently isn't evidence that it's impossible, or particularly difficult frankly, to develop new talent pools in new markets. It's more expensive and time consuming than anything else, which is why the Storm focused on poaching Qlders over VIC.

You said it's "more expensive than anything else", hence the reason they poached Queenslanders. You can lie all you like and claim you didn't say it. We both know you said it. It's there in writing.

 

[mongoose]

Brisbane's membership base rose by 40k in one season. In other words, the introduction of a second Brisbane team generated as many members as a Melbourne Storm team that was parachuted to the top from the start by News Ltd and stayed there for 25 years.

You're the idiot who said we need to ignore Brisbane because it won't generate new fans. Brisbane 2 just generated more active fans from Brisbane than a Perth team ever will. They certainly proved you wrong.

If Storm memberships are only because of their success then why didn't they increase sharply in 2007-2009, or 2012, or 2017? maybe it has something to so with actually marketing them and promoting the club?

I never said Brisbane 2 wouldn't get a sugar hit of fans and interest, i'm saying it won't be the same again for Brisbane 3.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If Storm memberships are only because of their success then why didn't they increase sharply in 2007-2009, or 2012, or 2017? maybe it has something to so with actually marketing them and promoting the club?

I never said Brisbane 2 wouldn't get a sugar hit of fans and interest, i'm saying it won't be the same again for Brisbane 3.

How the f**k would you know?

You're the know-it-all who said a third Brisbane team wouldn't be considered for 30 years after the introduction of a second team. Andrew Abdo and Peter V'landys said the Brisbane Tigers and Brisbane Jets are still a chance of getting an NRL licence. Head of Strategy WWOS Simon Fordham said the network believes Queensland can support another team. It looks like the figureheads from the ARLC and Ch9 don't support your sentiments.

How does it feel to be rebuked by the ARLC and Ch9?

 

[mongoose]

How the f**k would you know?

You're the know-it-all who said a third Brisbane team wouldn't be considered for 30 years after the introduction of a second team. Andrew Abdo and Peter V'landys said the Brisbane Tigers and Brisbane Jets are still a chance of getting an NRL licence. Head of Strategy WWOS Simon Fordham said the network believes Queensland can support another team. It looks like the figureheads from the ARLC and Ch9 don't support your sentiments.

How does it feel to be rebuked by the ARLC and Ch9?

Abdo and V'landys have said everyone is a chance at some point.

QLD can support another team, it could support another 3 teams. Some of us don't think it's what's best for the game right now though, f**king deal with it.

 

[The Great Dane]

Here's what you said:

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You said it's "more expensive than anything else", hence the reason they poached Queenslanders. You can lie all you like and claim you didn't say it. We both know you said it. It's there in writing.

There you go again with the BS dishonesty.

I never claimed that I didn't type those words. I said you were intentionally misinterpreting it in the least charitable way possible, just like you're intentionally misinterpreting the post you're currently replying to in the most moronically uncharitable way possible as well.

The Storm did things the way they did not because they 'couldn't be bothered', but because their main objectives as an NRL side can be boiled down to winning premierships, selling products, and turning over enough money to continue to exist and hopefully grow their club/business, and not to altruistically produce local talent at the expense of their commercial interests. From the base they were starting at the quickest, cheapest, and most convenient way to achieve those goals was to poach talent that was already well developed from other club's systems.

It'd be nice if we lived in a utopian alternate reality where all the teams could exist simply for the social benefits and to altruistically produce talent for the sport at the expense of their own commercial viability, but that simply isn't the case.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Abdo and V'landys have said everyone is a chance at some point.

QLD can support another team, it could support another 3 teams. Some of us don't think it's what's best for the game right now though, f**king deal with it.

How many years have you and your mates being pushing for a Perth team?

It's never been taken seriously by the ARLC.

What makes you think things will be different now?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There you go again with the BS dishonesty.

I never claimed that I didn't type those words. I said you were intentionally misinterpreting it in the least charitable way possible, just like you're intentionally misinterpreting the post you're currently replying to in the most moronically uncharitable way possible as well.

The Storm did things the way they did not because they 'couldn't be bothered', but because their main objectives as an NRL side can be boiled down to winning premierships, selling products, and turning over enough money to continue to exist and hopefully grow their club/business, and not to altruistically produce local talent at the expense of their commercial interests. From the base they were starting at the quickest, cheapest, and most convenient way to achieve those goals was to poach talent that was already well developed from other club's systems.

It'd be nice if we lived in a utopian alternate reality where all the teams could exist simply for the social benefits and to altruistically produce talent for the sport at the expense of their own commercial viability, but that simply isn't the case.

A Perth-based team will be no different to the Storm. It'll buy as many established players as it can. There won't be as many available for them to poach: they will not be entering the NRL after three teams were culled. News Ltd won't be slipping in an extra $5m per annum for the club to spend on their football department. It'll be a much harder slog for Perth.

The Dolphins were required to invest in the junior clubs within their catchment.

Can a Perth-based team do the same?

I am far from convinced that a Perth-based club can generate enough money to invest in developing local juniors. It will be a poor man's version of the Storm and end up like the Force.

 

[The Great Dane]

A Perth-based team will be no different to the Storm. It'll buy as many established players as it can.

Welcome to the modern sports industry lol.

Every team is buying up as much of the best talent they can afford wherever they can find it, and there're no exceptions to that rule. I mean what percentage of the Dolphins top 30 last year were genuine debutant juniors?!

There won't be as many available for them to poach: they will not be entering the NRL after three teams were culled. News Ltd won't be slipping in an extra $5m per annum for the club to spend on their football department. It'll be a much harder slog for Perth.

The landscape is so different that it's impossible to compare an expansion side now to 98. The amount of money in the game now compared to the then is just incomparable, just in the annual grant alone a Perth side will be starting from a better foundation than any other team could have imagined historically (the Dolphins exempted). It's honestly just dumb to even try to compare them.

A Perth side shouldn't want for money, resources, or players assuming they're well set up and have decent management, which admittedly is never a given, but that's a problem all start-up businesses face. Even the greatest ideas can be destroyed by clueless people running them.

The Dolphins were required to invest in the junior clubs within their catchment.

Can a Perth-based team do the same?

I see no reason why not.

The better question is should the NRL teams be in control of junior development, and I'd say no given that it results in an archaic, patchwork, of a system that's glacially slow to adapt to change compared to other systems from around the world.

I am far from convinced that a Perth-based club can generate enough money to invest in developing local juniors. It will be a poor man's version of the Storm and end up like the Force.

Yeah, but that's because you're the village idiot, and a vary biased one at that. A poor man's version of the Storm would still be one of the stronger teams in the league anyway, and they'd have a significantly higher ceiling than most of their counterparts.

With the money and opportunities available in Perth and the NRL's exposure and prestige, a Perth side would pretty quickly become one of the financially stronger and more stable sides in the NRL assuming that it's reasonably well run. Which btw is three things the Force have never had; a good administration/ownership, a decent team, and good exposure.

Your problem is that you have an expectation that all expansion sides outside of Queensland should enter the league fully formed with no flaws or room for improvement, and instantly be successful and profitable enough not only to sustain themselves but to make a significant return for the league, which is a totally unrealistic standard to hold any start up business to, let alone pro sports teams, let alone ones from markets without a strong NRL or RL presence.

 

[MugaB]

It'd be nice if we lived in a utopian alternate reality where all the teams could exist simply for the social benefits and to altruistically produce talent for the sport at the expense of their own commercial viability, but that simply isn't the case.

PENRIFF!!!!

 

[mongoose]

Welcome to the modern sports industry lol.

Every team is buying up as much of the best talent they can afford wherever they can find it, and there're no exceptions to that rule. I mean what percentage of the Dolphins top 30 last year were genuine debutant juniors?!

The landscape is so different that it's impossible to compare an expansion side now to 98. The amount of money in the game now compared to the then is just incomparable, just in the annual grant alone a Perth side will be starting from a better foundation than any other team could have imagined historically (the Dolphins exempted). It's honestly just dumb to even try to compare them.

A Perth side shouldn't want for money, resources, or players assuming they're well set up and have decent management, which admittedly is never a given, but that's a problem all start-up businesses face. Even the greatest ideas can be destroyed by clueless people running them.

I see no reason why not.

The better question is should the NRL teams be in control of junior development, and I'd say no given that it results in an archaic, patchwork, of a system that's glacially slow to adapt to change compared to other systems from around the world.

Yeah, but that's because you're the village idiot, and a vary biased one at that. A poor man's version of the Storm would still be one of the stronger teams in the league anyway, and they'd have a significantly higher ceiling than most of their counterparts.

With the money and opportunities available in Perth and the NRL's exposure and prestige, a Perth side would pretty quickly become one of the financially stronger and more stable sides in the NRL assuming that it's reasonably well run. Which btw is three things the Force have never had; a good administration/ownership, a decent team, and good exposure.

Your problem is that you have an expectation that all expansion sides outside of Queensland should enter the league fully formed with no flaws or room for improvement, and instantly be successful and profitable enough not only to sustain themselves but to make a significant return for the league, which is a totally unrealistic standard to hold any start up business to, let alone pro sports teams, let alone ones from markets without a strong NRL or RL presence.

you'll just get some baseless retort about - "no one if WA cares about RL", "no business in WA wants to invest in a RL team," "no players want to move to WA from the east coast" - as if the NRL and Perth club will have zero control over their destiny.

He and his counterparts think of expansion as giving teams to regions that have earnt the right (in their mind), not about growing the actual sport in the most sustainable possible markets.

Anyhow this was supposed to be an NZ thread but Donkey has turned it into another anti-Perth one.

 

[Wb1234]

A Perth-based team will be no different to the Storm. It'll buy as many established players as it can. There won't be as many available for them to poach: they will not be entering the NRL after three teams were culled. News Ltd won't be slipping in an extra $5m per annum for the club to spend on their football department. It'll be a much harder slog for Perth.

The Dolphins were required to invest in the junior clubs within their catchment.

Can a Perth-based team do the same?

I am far from convinced that a Perth-based club can generate enough money to invest in developing local juniors. It will be a poor man's version of the Storm and end up like the Force.

Compelling argument

 

[Perth Red]

Literally every thread donkey wants to talk about perth lol. we are so living in his head

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Welcome to the modern sports industry lol.

Every team is buying up as much of the best talent they can afford wherever they can find it, and there're no exceptions to that rule. I mean what percentage of the Dolphins top 30 last year were genuine debutant juniors?!

Dolphins have produced a litany of quality players who've enriched the NSWRL and NRL.

Australia's first indigenous Australian to captain a national sporting team was a proud Redcliffe junior.

The landscape is so different that it's impossible to compare an expansion side now to 98. The amount of money in the game now compared to the then is just incomparable, just in the annual grant alone a Perth side will be starting from a better foundation than any other team could have imagined historically (the Dolphins exempted). It's honestly just dumb to even try to compare them.

What's dumb is you not knowing how much it costs to run an NRL team. It's in the Gemba Report, FFS. A team like Perth will need to generate about 20-25m per annum from football operations to keep up with the strongest clubs. Good luck generating that sort of revenue while playing out of a 20k seat stadium that has poor corporate facilities while stationed in a city where rugby league as a niche sport.

A Perth side shouldn't want for money, resources, or players assuming they're well set up and have decent management, which admittedly is never a given, but that's a problem all start-up businesses face. Even the greatest ideas can be destroyed by clueless people running them.

20-25m is what they'll need to generate from football operations to keep up with the Cowboys. They'll need strong investment from the WA Gov to build the infrastructure needed to keep up with the big clubs. A high performance training centre. A new stadium. Without either they will struggle -- just like the other two teams that play out of Perth Rectangular Stadium.

I see no reason why not.

The better question is should the NRL teams be in control of junior development, and I'd say no given that it results in an archaic, patchwork, of a system that's glacially slow to adapt to change compared to other systems from around the world.

Players don't want a draft. See Mark Carrol and the Brisbane Broncos.

Yeah, but that's because you're the village idiot, and a vary biased one at that. A poor man's version of the Storm would still be one of the stronger teams in the league anyway, and they'd have a significantly higher ceiling than most of their counterparts.

With the money and opportunities available in Perth and the NRL's exposure and prestige, a Perth side would pretty quickly become one of the financially stronger and more stable sides in the NRL assuming that it's reasonably well run. Which btw is three things the Force have never had; a good administration/ownership, a decent team, and good exposure.

You are so full of shit and a total bore.

Force are owned by Twiggy Forrest.

In your f**ked up head the Dolphins "failed on all metrics", despite having the second most lucrative sponsorship portfolio, second best in the NRL for attendances, 30k members and being the 5th most watched team on TV.

Now you're telling me a Perth-based team will be one of the richest in the NRL?

Delusional.

It's just a dumb and biased opinion that's based on your absurd obsession with expanding the game (to the detriment of the heartland). You hate Brisbane and Sydney for some reason I'll never understand. No matter how big and rich the Brisbane clubs are you'll say they're a failure.

Your problem is that you have an expectation that all expansion sides outside of Queensland should enter the league fully formed with no flaws or room for improvement, and instantly be successful and profitable enough not only to sustain themselves but to make a significant return for the league, which is a totally unrealistic standard to hold any start up business to, let alone pro sports teams, let alone ones from markets without a strong NRL or RL presence.

The ARLC is set up in a way that prevents expansion clubs being dependent on handouts. All 17 NRL clubs, QRL and NSWRL have voting rights.

Do you think they'll vote for a Perth-based team that isn't self-sufficient?

The Dolphins had to provide a $50m bank guarantee. That's how much pressure there is on expansion clubs to be viable from day one.

Your problem is you're a hateful prick and jealous of the heartland. Go read the doom and gloom you heaped on the Dolphins in the lead up to their inclusion. You're still saying they failed on all metrics, despite being bigger and more profitable after one season than the Storm after 25 seasons.

It's delusional to think a Perth-based team will be any bigger than a small Sydney club. Shit stadium. No assets. Niche sport in mid-sized city. No value to broadcasters.

 

[Perth Red]

Dolphins have produced a litany of quality players who've enriched the NSWRL and NRL.

Australia's first indigenous Australian to captain a national sporting team was a proud Redcliffe junior.



What's dumb is you not knowing how much it costs to run an NRL team. It's in the Gemba Report, FFS. A team like Perth will need to generate about 20-25m per annum from football operations to keep up with the strongest clubs. Good luck generating that sort of revenue while playing out of a 20k seat stadium that has poor corporate facilities while stationed in a city where rugby league as a niche sport.



20-25m is what they'll need to generate from football operations to keep up with the Cowboys. They'll need strong investment from the WA Gov to build the infrastructure needed to keep up with the big clubs. A high performance training centre. A new stadium. Without either they will struggle -- just like the other two teams that play out of Perth Rectangular Stadium.



Players don't want a draft. See Mark Carrol and the Brisbane Broncos.



You are so full of shit and a total bore.

Force are owned by Twiggy Forrest.

In your f**ked up head the Dolphins "failed on all metrics", despite having the second most lucrative sponsorship portfolio, second best in the NRL for attendances, 30k members and being the 5th most watched team on TV.

Now you're telling me a Perth-based team will be one of the richest in the NRL?

Delusional.

It's just a dumb and biased opinion that's based on your absurd obsession with expanding the game (to the detriment of the heartland). You hate Brisbane and Sydney for some reason I'll never understand. No matter how big and rich the Brisbane clubs are you'll say they're a failure.



The ARLC is set up in a way that prevents expansion clubs being dependent on handouts. All 17 NRL clubs, QRL and NSWRL have voting rights.

Do you think they'll vote for a Perth-based team that isn't self-sufficient?

The Dolphins had to provide a $50m bank guarantee. That's how much pressure there is on expansion clubs to be viable from day one.

You're problem is you're a hateful prick and jealous of the heartland. Go read the doom and gloom you heaped on the Dolphins in the lead up to their inclusion. You're still saying they failed on all metrics, despite being bigger and more profitable after one season than the Storm after 25 seasons.

It's delusional to think a Perth-based team will be any bigger than a small Sydney club. Shit stadium. No assets. Niche sport in mid-sized city. No value to broadcasters.

NZ2 thread
I mean seriously you just keep regurgitating your exact same opinions, and they are just your opinions, in every thread. Yeh we get it, you dont want to see a perth team in the NRL. How about keep that opinion sharing in the West coast thread?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

NZ2 thread
I mean seriously you just keep regurgitating your exact same opinions, and they are just your opinions, in every thread. Yeh we get it, you dont want to see a perth team in the NRL. How about keep that opinion sharing in the West coast thread?

You've been regurgitating the same boring shit for 15 years.